Luffy Scaling

[Angel38621]

I feel like this wiki needs to update the One Piece Scalings. They still have Luffy at Mountain level+ when he has fought characters who can destroy island and possibly continents. Don Chinjao especially who already split a continent with his head alone. Luffy proceed to beat Don Chinjao without using 4th Gear. Luffy additionally dodged beam of the Noro Noro no Mi from Foxy, who while in alot of Filler, is actually a canon character, this feat specifically happening in Chapter 316, aka before Haki. And yes i know the Noro Noro no Mi is a slowing beam, but it is still made of photons and retains properties of light evident by use of mirrors during Foxy arcs. Even Kizaru has shown consistently faster than his won fruit physically, as some of the Supernovas were able to see and/or react to his light but not his physical attack, as did Luffy during Marineford. This is not mentioning that the Pasufustas themselves fire beams of light, which even though they do charge, are still shown to travel at light speed. Which is demonstrated when Zoro was barely able to react to the light beam fired by Kuma in the Thriller Bark arc, despite the fact that it took a couple seconds for the beam to charge. Ans yes that is something i noticed as well, even though the Pacifistas charge the light beams they fire, it only amounts to seconds. Luffy only got faster after the two year time skip. Mind you all the speed feats I mentioned are of his combat speed, and reaction speed, not his travel speed. It's consistent in one piece to have characters that can dodge bullets and blasts but not be able to travel fast. The only person with light speed Travel Speed is Kizaru, but in terms of combat and reaction many pirates and Kizaru himself have shown to be faster. Now if you calculate Luffy feats without lore than they are gonna be lower than what is shown in the manga, that's because the when calculated without lore those feats are basically outliers, there is no context to them. It's kinda hypocritical to take in the lore of other series like Naruto to help use determine feats, and then flat out ignore the lore of one piece, which is series that has context, background, and lore for literally every character and island. You what I mean? It's easy to say Naruto is hypersonic at best, when you dont relate the context of Sage Art: Storm Release: Light Fang.

 

[Damage3245]

> destroy island and possibly continents

Got any calcs?

 

[Angel38621]

I'm not good at math enough to calc tbh lol. Whatever calc I could make or find would only be added to the lore. Let's say even if I calculated that Luffy was country level that would be under the lore, which has Chinjao at continental. The lore in referring to are exact events and facts that make up the story and world.

 

[Damage3245]

Chinjao being continental is just hyperbole. It's also a horrendous outlier under the current scaling.

 

[Angel38621]

Actually it's not a hyperbole. There's no evidence of it being a hyperbole. But way to use head canon am I right? One Piece takes its world building very seriously obviously and details its lore. It even showed him splitting the continent on a flash back but its hyperbole apparently. An outlier is feat without context. The feat has context, it's all over the lore. But the more you ignore thy he lore the more inaccurate of a calculation your gonna get

 

[KobsterHope07]

At the moment we can't truly calculate Chinjao destroying a continent because we don't a have a full shot of the alleged continent he split. Also, the Chinjao splitting a continent was done by a younger, Prime Chinjao. Not the old, weaker Chinjao we see in Dressrosa.

Also, just because someone could destroy an Island or splitting a continent, doesn't actually make them Island or Continental level as weird as it sound. You don't need to be Mountain level to destroy a mountain. You can be as low as Low 7-B and still destroy a mountain, though a small one.

The speed of the verse is getting upgraded sometime soon or later.

 

[The_Calaca]

Honestly, at this point we should put a rule about trying to upgrade One Piece using Chinjao's feat without any calcs or evidence to prove it.

 

[Angel38621]

Honesty Calaca Vs you should know there is evidence, the picture of it appeared in the Manga. Please try to know what your talking about, no offense. And if you calculations do it your self fund out how much force and energy would be needed to crack a continent with just a headbutt

 

[Angel38621]

At the moment we can't truly calculate Chinjao destroying a continent because we don't a have a full shot of the alleged continent he split. Also, the Chinjao splitting a continent was done by a younger, Prime Chinjao. Not the old, weaker Chinjao we see in Dressrosa.

Also, just because someone could destroy an Island or splitting a continent, doesn't actually make them Island or Continental level as weird as it sound. You don't need to be Mountain level to destroy a mountain. You can be as low as Low 7-B and still destroy a mountain, though a small one.

The speed of the verse is getting upgraded sometime soon or later.

I understand your point, but i dont remember them saying Don Chinjao was weaker, but its a good this the speed of the verse is being upgraded

 

[Damage3245]

Honestly, at this point we should put a rule about trying to upgrade One Piece using Chinjao's feat without any calcs or evidence to prove it.

Amen to that.

It's like trying to say that Whitebeard is 5-B because of Sengoku's statement.

 

[The_Calaca]

People like you come here like three times a month saying that we are doing things wrong without any evidence besides statements or heavily inflated calcs or flawed reasonings. What's new here? We had another dude derailing the revisions with the same arguments with no more evidence than two statements.

Plus, you don't know me. Don't try to put me in a bag that I'm not into.

The pictures are there, that's true, but they lack lot of proof to do a good scaling in order to calc the feat accordingly. Even doing some assumptions (which some people see as unfounded) the feat reach 6-C levels and anything above that is a massive wank.

 

[Angel38621]

People like you come here like three times a month saying that we are doing things wrong without any evidence besides statements or heavily inflated calcs or flawed reasonings. What's new here? We had another dude derailing the revisions with the same arguments with no more evidence than two statements.

Plus, you don't know me. Don't try to put me in a bag that I'm not into.

The pictures are there, that's true, but they lack lot of proof to do a good scaling in order to calc the feat accordingly. Even doing some assumptions (which some people see as unfounded) the feat reach 6-C levels and anything above that is a massive wank.

Expect there is literally no assumption. One Piece is built off world building. One Piece is a manga built of lore not just feats. If you try to calculate feats without accounting the lore then whatever you calaculate is inaccurate. We see Don Chinjao split a continent in the manga. Okay fine, so what? Well we can tell by various maps the One Piece world is bigger than ours. Okay, then what accounts for a continent? Actually the Red Line is a continent, even landmasses as big as Albasta are considered countries. So we can estimate that that Don Chinjao can split a landmass as big as the Red Line. Its not that complicated. And again im not trying to offend you or steroetype you. But at the very least you should acknowledge that One Piece and verses like it, that build feats off the lore, we cant just scale every verse the same. Cause not every verse works the same.

 

[Damage3245]

> So we can estimate that that Don Chinjao can split a landmass as big as the Red Line.

And you don't see why that might be a ridiculous assumptions to make?

 

[The_Calaca]

No, that's a massive assumption. Calling some old geezer like Chinjao a character able to split the Red Line IT'S a pretty big assumption with no backup.

One Piece is built via lore? I agree, but as Kobster pointed before, you can destroy a mountain even being Small City level.

This wiki has its own standards. Want to take part of it and try to change things? Go ahead, nobody will stop you and you might achieve it if your arguments are good enough but this isn't the case. Chinjao isn't able to split a continent as big as the Red Line since we can see that there's no other continent as big as it is in the maps we have.

 

[Angel38621]

No, that's a massive assumption. Calling some old geezer like Chinjao a character able to split the Red Line IT'S a pretty big assumption with no backup.

One Piece is built via lore? I agree, but as Kobster pointed before, you can destroy a mountain even being Small City level.

This wiki has its own standards. Want to take part of it and try to change things? Go ahead, nobody will stop you and you might achieve it if your arguments are good enough but this isn't the case. Chinjao isn't able to split a continent as big as the Red Line since we can see that there's no other continent as big as it is in the maps we have.

If you dont understand that stating someone can plit a continent and then seeing them actually do it, isnt evidence than idk what to tell you. None of it is an assumption, it called following the story. The LORE BUILT AND WORLD BUILDING MANGA, which atates someone can split a continent and then sees him do it, is totally assumption thy hat makes sense. Your not getting the cause and effect. If Don Chinjao split a continent, and naturally as most landmasses would crumbled or even just split, then it would only be a bunch of islands and/or countries on a map. The continent no longer exist, because he split it. If someone destroys a universe, its not gonna show up on a multiversal map, because its already gone. Unlike alot of manga, one piece doesnt throw around words like continent, island, or country, its actually very organized about it. The continent should be relative in size to the Red line, as even Nami considers it to be the only continent they have come across.

 

[The_Calaca]

We don't have a full shot of the island. We need to know how big the continent is to determine how much energy would that yield.

Plus, splitting =/= destroying. Don't forget that the Ice Sheet can be closed again to protect Chinjao's treasures.

EDIT: If you have no more new arguments, then I'll ask to get this closed. We have been here too many times and I'll suggest to create a rule about this kind of threads to avoid wasting our and your time.

 

[Angel38621]

We don't have a full shot of the island. We need to know how big the continent is to determine how much energy would that yield.

Plus, splitting =/= destroying. Don't forget that the Ice Sheet can be closed again to protect Chinjao's treasures.

EDIT: If you have no more new arguments, then I'll ask to get this closed. We have been here too many times and I'll suggest to create a rule about this kind of threads to avoid wasting our and your time.

First off your assuming. You just called it an island but the manga called it a continent. Just because you dont agree with it, doesn't mean its not true. One Piece is very specific about its geography, whether it be landmasses, or oceans. The manga established what the difference is between islands, continents, and countries tjriggh size, world building and statements. We know how big a continent is via Red Line. You can ignore the lore all you want, but its present.

And FYI if you delete my thread ill just remake it. If you have problem with it, then dont come here.

 

[Damage3245]

> You just called it an island but the manga called it a continent. Just because you dont agree with it, doesn't mean its not true

Just because it is called a 'continent' doesn't mean it has to have a specific size.

 

[The_Calaca]

To be fair, a continent is an enormous island. That's how I see it so don't pay attention to that part.

The manga rarely establishes the distance between islands. Even the size of the islands are mostly unknown and the biggest island found to date is Arabasta. The rest of them don't have any stated sizes that could help us to determine such things.

The Red Line is, by far, the biggest thing ever seen. It's a macro-continent more than just a continent since it covers the whole world like a belt. No real life continent is that big or is formed the same way.

You won't remake it if I come with a rule about stopping with these threads. We have lots of them and they don't bring any useful information but assumptions and wank.

 

[Angel38621]

Yes any of us can dumb down anything to make it seem less impressive. A Table is just shaped wood. A planet is floating hunk of matter. There is a difference between islands and continents in terms of geology. By contrast, islands are either extensions of the oceanic crust (e.g. volcanic islands), or belong to a continental plate containing a larger landmass. You just admitted that it establishes a difference. And why would it be often established? There are very few country sized palces in one piece and the Red Line is the only continent left. And agian the map of Alabasta and the World Maps help establish the differnece between sizes. As you said yourself, the Red Line is bigger than any continet we have seen in real life, but you just called it a macro continent. A distinction that doesnt exist in One Piece because of jow their landmasses are in size. If the Manga, says and shows Don split the continent, and the only other continent we have seen is the Red Line, then we know whatever Don split was relative and size. At the very least a feat that scales to continents in real life even if you dont wanna use the Red Line. None of this is assumption or wank, then context and connecting the dots of the story really. Its not the hard, to realize that the only other continent in OP is Red Line, which means that the landmass that Don Chinjao split had to be of comparable size, because there are no other landmasses described or even named as a continent. And of course there are gonna be alot of these characters when so many peole are closed minded.

 

[The_Calaca]

It seems you're calling me dumb for the sake of downplaying. That's cute.

There's no official map of the whole world yet. So we can't use that to get the Ice Sheet's size (which BTW is IIRC the way they call the icemass in the official translation).

Okay, I'm done with this. This won't lead to any upgrade-worthy conclusion and I have no time to deal with this.

Peace.

 

[Damage3245]

Calling Calaca close-minded is completely uncalled for.

 

[Angel38621]

I'm not calling your dumb sir, but I'm sure your used to insults because how hostile people get on here. I was talking about the world maps we have already been given, of course there is no official world map, because ethey haven't finished their journey yet. I'm not sure your fully thinking about what your saying. Why would their be an official whole world map, that would ruin the journey. We know the Ice sheet is around the size of the Red Line due to it being referred to as a continent. Just because you dont think this is upgrade worthy conclusion doesnt its not. I'm still correct in this situation, but okay. Have a nice day.

 

[Angel38621]

Calling Calaca close-minded is completely uncalled for.

I didnt call him close minded though, i just said their are alot of close minded people on here. Im not a hostile person lol

 

[Antvasima]

Honestly, at this point we should put a rule about trying to upgrade One Piece using Chinjao's feat without any calcs or evidence to prove it.

I am personally fine with this, if you and Damage want to write one.

 

[Angel38621]

I am personally fine with this, if you and Damage want to write one.

Oh wow

 

[Antvasima]

We should probably close this thread.

 

[The_Calaca]

After a night of sleep I feel better.

@Ant Thanks, once I get home from the uni I'll start writing it.

@Angel Dunno who you talked with, but people in this site is actually really nice. Rude people isn't so easy to find actually.

We had a discussion about the maps. We used to have the OP World 2x bigger than fricking Jupiter but those maps aren't drawn in scale and that's the problem. That's why we can't upgrade the verse on that matter until we get a good map on scale.

>That'd ruin the journey

This has nothing to do with the discussion.

I won't reply the same points we've replied before. It's a waste of time if you won't listen.

Please, don't take this as an offense. You're welcome to help us if you feel like so, but please learn our standards before making any claims with no support. We have our methods and One Piece is currently under revisions that have been going on for almost a year now.

For the record, I think our currently accepted Chinjao's split is a horrible lowball, but we have no better method without assuming things like another that has been never seen in any map before despite being as big as the Red Line.

 

[Angel38621]

After a night of sleep I feel better.

@Ant Thanks, once I get home from the uni I'll start writing it.

@Angel Dunno who you talked with, but people in this site is actually really nice. Rude people isn't so easy to find actually.

We had a discussion about the maps. We used to have the OP World 2x bigger than fricking Jupiter but those maps aren't drawn in scale and that's the problem. That's why we can't upgrade the verse on that matter until we get a good map on scale.

>That'd ruin the journey

This has nothing to do with the discussion.

I won't reply the same points we've replied before. It's a waste of time if you won't listen.

Please, don't take this as an offense. You're welcome to help us if you feel like so, but please learn our standards before making any claims with no support. We have our methods and One Piece is currently under revisions that have been going on for almost a year now.

For the record, I think our currently accepted Chinjao's split is a horrible lowball, but we have no better method without assuming things like another that has been never seen in any map before despite being as big as the Red Line.

Kk. Although my claims had evidence and support. Just not supported by the standards of the wiki

 

[The_Calaca]

@Ant and Damage

"Don't create threads to upgrade One Piece based on Chinjao's 'continental' feat until we get more evidence and avoid using statements only to support it with no other proof"

What do you think?

 

[Damage3245]

Looks fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe something like this, to be more specific?

"Don't create threads to upgrade One Piece, based on Chinjao supposedly splitting an ice continent, until the story provides us with more evidence, and avoid using statements only to support it."

 

[The_Calaca]

That seems better.

 

[Damage3245]

Agreed - that works for me.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will add it to the Discussion Rules page, and close this thread.

 

[The_Calaca]

Thank you.

 

[Ronnijuro]

For the next post you can separate by paragraphs your ideas.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

I have done so.