Luck Voltia VS Kamen Rider Vulcan [GRACE END](2-7-0)

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

does luck need to take damage to adapt?

No, he doesn't. He got stronger from magic that was supposed to weaken him.

 

[BERRIES555]

Well for starters, he's already fought and beat Jackel who could blitzed him. She literally started with a blitz but Fuwa dodges the attacks.

Secondly, Fuwa's precog comparable to Horobi's whose precog is 4x better than Thouser's which is already 4x better than the Shining Arithmetic. With the Shining Arithmetic being far stronger than the Dodo Magia who can predict attacks mid teleportation.

 

[BERRIES555]

Actually, I don't see Deconstruction on his profile to begin with

has all 10 Progrise Key's abilities which be combined onto this form (Biting Shark, Flaming Tiger, Freezing Bear, Breaking Mammoth, Shooting Wolf, Punching Kong, Rushing Cheetah, Lightning Hornet, Flying Falcon, and Sting Scorpion),

Sting Scorpion is the progrisekey of Horobi, who has deconstruction.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Then, why can't Luck just dodge it?

Luck would be faster due to amps and RPL, but even assuming they would have similar speed despite that, it's not like the sting is unavoidable

 

[BERRIES555]

Then, why can't Luck just dodge it?

Luck would be faster due to amps and RPL, but even assuming they would have similar speed despite that, it's not like the sting is unavoidable

Well for starters, he's already fought and beat Jackel who could blitzed him. She literally started with a blitz but Fuwa dodges the attacks.

Secondly, Fuwa's precog comparable to Horobi's whose precog is 4x better than Thouser's which is already 4x better than the Shining Arithmetic. With the Shining Arithmetic being far stronger than the Dodo Magia who can predict attacks mid teleportation.

 

[Loyd]

can i get a scan for horobi 4x greater then thouser who has 4x precog and the shining arithmetic who can predict attacks mid teleportation?

 

[Epsilon_R]

She literally started with a blitz but Fuwa dodges the attacks.

So did Luck

Secondly, Fuwa's precog comparable to Horobi's whose precog is 4x better than Thouser's which is already 4x better than the Shining Arithmetic. With the Shining Arithmetic being far stronger than the Dodo Magia who can predict attacks mid teleportation.

Higher Precog won't make his sting faster though

 

[BERRIES555]

can i get a scan for horobi 4x greater then thouser who has 4x precog and the shining arithmetic who can predict attacks mid teleportation?

Alright, so the Dodo Magia was able to react to Shining Hoppers attack through this clip (Around 0:50). Now, the Shining Arithmetic allows Aruto, the teleporting guy, to see up to 25,000 predictions every 0.01 seconds or 2.5 million per second. Once the Shining Arithmetic kicked in, Aruto precog was far too fast for for the Dodo Magia. Shining Hopper would then fought Thouser who actually overwhelmed SH (Around 7:44). Thouser's Thousand Signal allows him to predict "tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds" which is at least 20 million per second, which is 8x faster than the Shining Arithmetic. Not 4x like I thought.

Horobi was able to out predict Thouser (Around 1:45) and Fuwa has stomped Thouser and matched Horobi. In other form, Fuwa has even kept up with Zero-Two who can predict up to 2 trillion predictions every 0.01 seconds.

 

[BERRIES555]

So did Luck

Going off what was said in earlier posts, Luck could keep up with people who could previously blitz him through RPL Fuwa doesn't need his RPL to keep up with people who can blitz him.

Higher Precog won't make his sting faster though

It'll allow him to predict where Luck will be, his precog is definitely strong enough for that. He could also redirect the movement of the stinger, or you know, just stab Luck if he gets close.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Unless that RPL can keep up with someone who can go from being blitzed to keeping up and evading a number of attacks, it doesn't mean much.


Higher AP doesn't mean anything to Luck, his stamina and durability has him constantly take strikes from people who can do grave damage to him and keep fighting at better potency than before, due to his RPL. Luck also has acrobatics, so. Speed Amps are Luck's thing, added with RPL, can't see why it matters.


Okay? What exactly stops Luck from adapting to it like he did Vetto, and figuring out how it works after a simple exchange? How does Vulcan deal with danmaku spam and his increasing speed?

Vulcan's casually fought against enemy with RPL on daily basic and was one of the best user of it. Have Luck adaption have other feat beyond blitzing Vetto?

Luck take strikes from Vetto and survived is likely due to stamina rather than Dura.

Because unlike Vetto whose rely on brute strength and melee combat, Vulcan use a variety of power and constantly shifting them mid-combat which is more difficult to catch-up in mere glance.

Vulcan's have stat amp too and he can summon Rider Model to block Luck attack.

Bos Luck fight against Vetto are the entire Black Bull gang him up and barely keep him down.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

You can't dismiss higher AP being a factor here. It is like you assume Luck can beat a 8-A+ because he fought against enemy with higher AP before.

Regardless, Vulcan's can tank Luck attack with ease and he would beat him to death with AP.

 

[Loyd]

Alright, so the Dodo Magia was able to react to Shining Hoppers attack through this clip (Around 0:50). Now, the Shining Arithmetic allows Aruto, the teleporting guy, to see up to 25,000 predictions every 0.01 seconds or 2.5 million per second. Once the Shining Arithmetic kicked in, Aruto precog was far too fast for for the Dodo Magia. Shining Hopper would then fought Thouser who actually overwhelmed SH (Around 7:44). Thouser's Thousand Signal allows him to predict "tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds" which is at least 20 million per second, which is 8x faster than the Shining Arithmetic. Not 4x like I thought.

Horobi was able to out predict Thouser (Around 1:45) and Fuwa has stomped Thouser and matched Horobi. In other form, Fuwa has even kept up with Zero-Two who can predict up to 2 trillion predictions every 0.01 seconds.

This show is kinda wack ngl is thr a statement that he can see 25K prediction every 0.01?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Yeah, that is basically Kamen Rider is.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Horobi was able to out predict Thouser (Around 1:45) and Fuwa has stomped Thouser and matched Horobi. In other form, Fuwa has even kept up with Zero-Two who can predict up to 2 trillion predictions every 0.01 seconds.

No, i don't think Fuwa is on Zero-Two level. At best, he is comparable to 01 Metal Cluster Hopper's.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Going off what was said in earlier posts, Luck could keep up with people who could previously blitz him through RPL Fuwa doesn't need his RPL to keep up with people who can blitz him.

Then this doesn't make sense. You can't keep up with someone that is blitzing you without RPL. Either they always were comparable, or he kept up through RPL

It'll allow him to predict where Luck will be, his precog is definitely strong enough for that. He could also redirect the movement of the stinger, or you know, just stab Luck if he gets close.

So was Vetto and Asta's precog when Luck fought them.

Luck can dodge close range attacks pretty easily so it wouldn't be a problem

 

[BERRIES555]

This show is kinda wack ngl is thr a statement that he can see 25K prediction every 0.01?

Here's the Shining Arithmetic spec:

• Shining Arithmetic (シャイニングアリスマティック Shainingu Arisumatikku): Shining Hopper's arithmetic processing unit. Located around the forehead. It predicts enemy behaviour by studying them and creates around 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in consideration of Zero-One's own performance. From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds. It's high-speed learning abilities can advance in battle.

Here's the Thousand Signal spec:

• Thousand Signal (サウザンドシグナル Sauzando Shigunaru) - The base where the five horns meet. It learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Vetto doesn't have Precog and Asta doesn't even have one when Luck fight him.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Vetto doesn't have Precog and Asta doesn't even have one when Luck fight him.

That's false. Ki allows you to predict the opponent's moves, Asta has it since chapter 32 and Vetto always had it

 

[BERRIES555]

Then this doesn't make sense. You can't keep up with someone that is blitzing you without RPL. Either they always were comparable, or he kept up through RPL

Jackel IS faster than Fuwa, its just that he can keep up with her. It doesn't mean he's outright going to land as much hits as her. He can just keep up with her. In this case, he would be able to keep up with Luck

So was Vetto and Asta's precog when Luck fought them.

Luck can dodge close range attacks pretty easily so it wouldn't be a problem

Could you show that Vetto and Asta's precog are better than Shining Arithmetic, Thousand Signal, etc?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

That's false. Ki allows you to predict the opponent's moves, Asta has it since chapter 32 and Vetto always had it

Since when does it stated that Vetto has Precog? Asta never actually fought against Luck before.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Jackel IS faster than Fuwa, its just that he can keep up with her. It doesn't mean he's outright going to land as much hits as her. He can just keep up with her. In this case, he would be able to keep up with Luck

Being faster and blitzing someone are two different things though

Could you show that Vetto and Asta's precog are better than Shining Arithmetic, Thousand Signal, etc?

Thousand signal creates thousands predictions, which is cool but in the end only one happens. Ki allows you to predict exactly what the opponent's next moves will be

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Only Asta and Yami utilized Ki and Asta never fought Luck before.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Since when does it stated that Vetto has Precog?

Chapter 51, Yami stated Vetto read his ki to match Yami. Asta says so as well

Asta never actually fought against Luck before.

Chapter 162

 

[Jamesthetaker]

That was Elf Form (Rufel), we are using BoS Luck.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

This show is kinda wack ngl is thr a statement that he can see 25K prediction every 0.01?

 

[Epsilon_R]

That was Elf Form (Rufel), we are using BoS Luck.

Still doesn't change the main point though

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Still doesn't change the main point though

No, it does. We're using feats from first key not Elf Form key.

So Vetto has Precog and Luck adapt to him. The problem here is that Vulcan's Precog and RPL come from a long scaling chain which is far above baseline Ki reading.

Say what you wanted of Thousand Signal but Vulcan's casually fought against enemy with similar ability on daily basic and even stomped them. Luck at best have them from one fight and is inferior to him.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also, Vetto has ki, just to point that out.

 

[Epsilon_R]

No, it does. We're using feats from first key not Elf Form key.

And he still did so to Vetto so it doesn't change the point...

So Vetto has Precog and Luck adapt to him. The problem here is that Vulcan's Precog and RPL come from a long scaling chain which is far above baseline Ki reading.

Vetto (Predicted Kiato's movements despite the latter using speed amp and Dance magic which lowers the opponent's senses >>> Kiato's resistance (Asta wasn't able to predict his movements) >> Baseline ki reading >> seeing several possible predictions

Say what you wanted of Thousand Signal but Vulcan's casually fought against enemy with similar ability on daily basic and even stomped them. Luck at best have them from one fight and is inferior to him.

I don't even know what you mean by that.

In any case, Luck RPL is better as he was keeping up with a Low 6-B/7-A for an extended period of time.

 

[BERRIES555]

Being faster and blitzing someone are two different things though

I know. I didn't say that Fuwa could move as fast or faster than Jackal. Just that he could react to people who can blitz. We see that Jackal has moved out of Fuwa's line of sight and appears behind him, he then blocks the attack. (0:23-0:30). In the same fight, Fuwa, while not being as fast as her, still being able to react to her attacks. (4:41-4:44).

Thousand signal creates thousands predictions, which is cool but in the end only one happens. Ki allows you to predict exactly what the opponent's next moves will be

The AI in Zero One create predictions of all possible outcomes. Something like this (0:22 - 0:35). Fuwa has fought these people before. Saying that Asta and Vetto having better precog because they can see what the person's next attack will be is literally in the same level as the Dodo Magia who can do this (1:46-3:00). Which Fuwa can fight people who can out predict them 64x over.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

The context of Precog doesn't matter, it is still Precog in the end. Vetto's Precog is only above baseline and that is below from Vulcan's scaling chain.

Luck only keep up with Vetto due to his speed and he loss in the end. Again, that is not the same level of Vulcan's RPL chain.

 

[Epsilon_R]

I know. I didn't say that Fuwa could move as fast or faster than Jackal. Just that he could react to people who can blitz. We see that Jackal has moved out of Fuwa's line of sight and appears behind him, he then blocks the attack. (0:23-0:30). In the same fight, Fuwa, while not being as fast as her, still being able to react to her attacks. (4:41-4:44).

Yes but that's not a blitz.

The AI in Zero One create predictions of all possible outcomes. Something like this (0:22 - 0:35). Fuwa has fought these people before.

Again, seeing several possible outcomes doesn't matter if the other opponent doesn't have precog. He sees thousands of outcomes but only one happens so against Luck, it's the same as reading his ki to Precog.

Sayingng that Asta and Vetto having better precog because they can see what the person's next attack will be is literally in the same level as the Dodo Magia who can do this (1:46-3:00).

I fail to see what this is supposed to be

Luck only keep up with Vetto due to his speed and he loss in the end. Again, that is not the same level of Vulcan's RPL chain.

Losing doesn't matter, he damaged him and forced him to use shield to block his attacks, something Vetto didn't need to against Yami or Kiato (who would scale to 7-B if he had a profile).

Luck losing but damaging a 7-A/Low 6-B and forcing them to use shields is far superior to anything Kamen did

 

[Epsilon_R]

Even speed wise, Luck was able to blitz Lotus after his second strike, and even when he used a stats reduction technique on Luck to make him slower than him, Luck once again blitzed Lotus after his second strike

 

[Nicetoderp]

Again, seeing several possible outcomes doesn't matter if the other opponent doesn't have precog. He sees thousands of outcomes but only one happens so against Luck, it's the same as reading his ki to Precog.

And how could you qualify that Precog is strictly better? Because it is simply just precog? And again, it isn’t simply seeing possible outcomes, it show in a pretty clear image where they will came from with quite the clarity as well, almost to the point of future sight as we can see with Ark-Zero.

And yes seeing your opponent next move is literally Dodo tier Analytic Prediction. Aka, the bottom of the barrel stuff.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Okay? In this fight, how seeing several outcomes of what luck could possibly do is better than seeing what Luck will exactly do?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Losing doesn't matter, he damaged him and forced him to use shield to block his attacks, something Vetto didn't need to against Yami or Kiato (who would scale to 7-B if he had a profile).

Luck losing but damaging a 7-A/Low 6-B and forcing them to use shields is far superior to anything Kamen did

Then why don't you upgrade him to Low 6-B? He did that with Magna and it barely even hurt Vetto.

Read what above. Luck have Magna supporting him and they couldn't anything to Vetto.

So far you have given many argument of Luck blitzing Vulcan, despite that many opponents who is slower can still react him. That is not when Vulcan himself have RPl and speed amp to counter against him.

If you still insist on the context of Precog then keep this in mind: The AI in Zero-One isn't relies on predict the short-term consequences of actions, but simulate of distant future as well.

You think that reading opponents movement is better than predicting thousand predictions because it would give precise result, right? Wrong, it mean that Vulcan can literally predicting entire event of the matches and more so.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Then why don't you upgrade him to Low 6-B? He did that with Magna and it barely even hurt Vetto.

Because that's via RPL.

Read what above. Luck have Magna supporting him and they couldn't anything to Vetto.

Magna came in the fight way later. Before that, Luck was trading blows with Vetto who previously made him bleed in one strike.

So far you have given many argument of Luck blitzing Vulcan, despite that many opponents who is slower can still react him. That is not when Vulcan himself have RPl and speed amp to counter against him.

I don't understand a single word of what you said here

You think that reading opponents movement is better than predicting thousand predictions because it would give precise result, right? Wrong, it mean that Vulcan can literally predicting entire event of the matches and more so.

He doesn't predict the entire match from what you shared, just the possibilities of the opponent's next moves.

 

[BERRIES555]

Yes but that's not a blitz.

Jackal literally out of Fuwa’s line of sight and then behind him before he could even move. At the second time stamp, Fuwa blocked attacks from her while she was using her Finisher, which far weaker characters gain a speed amp while using their finishers. Said speed amp could completely blitz people on their level, yet Fuwa could block attacks from her. Just because Fuwa would be slower when Luck uses his amp, doesn't mean Fuwa can't react to him. He's reacted to blitz before. And this isn't even counting the fact that Fuwa could also blitz with his own finisher.

Again, seeing several possible outcomes doesn't matter if the other opponent doesn't have precog. He sees thousands of outcomes but only one happens so against Luck, it's the same as reading his ki to Precog.

Most Zero One fights have people predicting the opponent attacks, blocking or dodging. When the precog is too much, the person with the weaker precog literally can't even land a hit on the person with the stronger precog.

I fail to see what this is supposed to be

Its the fight with the Dodo Magia. Even when it was a 2v1, both Fuwa or Aruto fail to land any hits on them without holding them still. And again, Fuwa post ep 28 can fight people who's AI's are 64x better than the Dodo's. ANd just because the AI can produce more numbers doesn't mean it's the only thing they could do. When the gap is too much, the weaker precog is completely neg'd

 

[BERRIES555]

The scale chain for Z1's precog allows people with weaker precog have it completely mute. Unless you can show how Luck's Ki sensing is on the same level of Fuwa's precog, then Fuwa would have the advantage there.

 

[Epsilon_R]

The scale chain for Z1's precog allows people with weaker precog have it completely mute. Unless you can show how Luck's Ki sensing is on the same level of Fuwa's precog, then Fuwa would have the advantage there.

Luck doesn't have ki