Lucius has 4D precognition/retrocognition multiversal and Asta has precognition resistance Divination

[Fwyzzverse]

We all know that Lucius has precognition of divination type, but what kind of precognition are we talking about ?

Divination, in which a user gains impossible knowledge of future events by looking into the future itself.

On the Lucius Zogratis wiki page, it was admitted that he had seen tens of thousands of timelines.

What Lucius can do and see in other worlds, for example, we reconstructed a japonaise raw to demonstrate it.

The raw use the kanji World [世界].

• The kanji world in the Japanese language has 3 definitions assigned to different situations or contexts.
• 
  
• 1. Society: Here, society represents the group life and organization of humans residing in the human world.
• 
  
• 2. World In this case, since the word "world" is assigned to a planetary scale, what Lucius supports and his goals could be inferred, reflecting the planet as a whole.
• 
  
• 3. Universe referring to something of universal or infinitely universal size.

We already have several cases in which Lucius sees tens of thousands of timelines, and this world more accurately refers to a countable universe in which he can see the different futures of societies and planets.

Thus, Lucius is wired to see into the abstract extension of the usual concept of space seen as three-dimensional space and into four-dimensional space, because the points are also marked by four coordinates; the fourth, which is most often noted T or W, corresponds to a new direction, perpendicular to all the directions of our space, T which refers in particular to time itself.

The panels inherently show us that he can't see into other people's futures, but specifically that this is caused by Asta's fault and applies to the entire world, and Dorothy literally tells us that we can't see into Asta's future.

The fact that we are told “THE FUTURE OF ASTA” and Lucius tells us “THE WORLD” is proof that this is a type of divination.

Then we have Lucius during the fight against Yuno who tells us about a world he saw where the Spade Battle didn't exist or Yuno was a king where it took me years to become strong.

Then we have Lucius during the fight against Yuno who tells us about a world he saw where the Spade Battle didn't exist or Yuno was a king where it took me years to become strong.

Already, Lucius proves to us that he not only sees into the future, but that he sees other timelines from the past to the future.

The kanji (予) refers to notional facts of the past such as “before, previously, beforehand” and the kanji (年) which refers to “year, year counter”.

Lucius can see the years of a timeline but also the past.

Gifts if Lucius sees from the past to the future in a timeline and in tens of thousands of futures/worlds.

Next, it comes to 4D precognition.

For the multiversal part, here's what Lucius tells us as references: "Of all worlds", which means "of all worlds". This makes us understand that Lucius does see several worlds, but in particular that they are real and physical.

So in conclusion asta would have resistance to Lucius' type of 4D precognition divination, but that would also make it impossible to see into countless timelines and worlds or universes as you wish, he would have no power over him, but the most essential thing is that it's not done with anti-magic, so it would be a completely different asset, so we have a divination type of precognition and retrocognition allowing it to see the past of a timeline.

I'll leave it up to you to decide and give me your opinion, in case I said something wrong.

All right : Epsilon R, CloverDragon03 (Accepts only multiversal precognition), sepe_ferdinan, Xinsignia, Rafaltmr, Joshyyy_64, LuffyRuffy46307, Arnoldstone18

Neutral : CloverDragon03 (for 4D precognition)

Disagree : BestMGQScalerEver, DarkDragonMedeus, ImmortalDread, Pekiodas

I leave it to you to render the final verdict and discuss it.​

 

[KLOL506]

English, please.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

English, please.

Sorry, this is due to a bug I just received.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Lucius having a 4D Precognition was already accepted before

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

AFAIK Lucius only sees thousands of futures and never stated to be seeing straight up timelines. And viewing multiple futures sadly wouldn't be 4-D precog like how the Almighty was downgraded from 4-D despite Yhwach being able to see multiple worlds and their distant future.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

AFAIK Lucius only sees thousands of futures and never stated to be seeing straight up timelines. And viewing multiple futures sadly wouldn't be 4-D precog like how the Almighty was downgraded from 4-D despite Yhwach being able to see multiple worlds and their distant future.

This post makes sense to me.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

AFAIK Lucius only sees thousands of futures and never stated to be seeing straight up timelines. And viewing multiple futures sadly wouldn't be 4-D precog like how the Almighty was downgraded from 4-D despite Yhwach being able to see multiple worlds and their distant future.

Lucius sees countable timeline value being accepted would be tens of thousands, especially since it exerts on the timeline of an entire universe which allowed him to do so even for parallel worlds, and the fact that this was demoted to yhwach is not a real explanation of why this will not apply.

And even if the value wasn't tens of thousands of timelines, it wouldn't change too much.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

This post makes sense to me.

Do you find my article to make sense or the debunking you responded to?

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Lucius having a 4D Precognition was already accepted before

So you agree with what I put in? And it's weird that it wasn't specified on her page if it had been accepted.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Lucius sees countable timeline value being accepted would be tens of thousands, especially since it exerts on the timeline of an entire universe which allowed him to do so even for parallel worlds, and the fact that this was demoted to yhwach is not a real explanation of why this will not apply.

And even if the value wasn't tens of thousands of timelines, it wouldn't change too much.

It's not 4-D because it doesn't extend to past present and future.
Also here he clearly just sees futures and not timelines.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

It's not 4-D because it doesn't extend to past present and future.
Also here he clearly just sees futures and not timelines.

The future is part of a timeline and lucius can see the countable futures of other universes with their own timelines, so the game doesn't change anything and in particular this had already been accepted.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

The future is part of a timeline and lucius can see the countable futures of other universes with their own timelines, so the game doesn't change anything and in particular this had already been accepted.

Well it can be changed here then since the information on the profile seems to be incorrect. In fact the evidence you have given only suggests he can only see thousands of possible futures of a single world as he could not divine into Astas future and it's relation to the world. Even if he was seeing the future of other universes it still wouldn't be 4-D as it would have to extend to past present and future.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Eh bien, il peut être modifié ici alors puisque les informations sur le profil semblent être incorrectes. En fait, les preuves que vous avez données ne font que suggérer qu’il ne peut voir que des milliers d’avenirs possibles d’un seul monde, car il ne pouvait pas deviner l’avenir d’Astas et sa relation avec le monde. Même s’il voyait l’avenir d’autres univers, ce ne serait toujours pas de la 4-D, car elle devrait s’étendre au passé, au présent et au futur.

It will not be modified because this Japanese raw scan proves to us that Lucius sees in other timelines with different stories by us writing the history and the citation of this mone.

So already it's not limited to their worlds but to several timelines, in addition to seeing in the future, he sees the cituation and history of other worlds and the way he describes it literally shows that he doesn't just see in the future in some cases.

The kanji (予) gives us a notional fact about the "before" or "beforehand" and the prediction so lucius can see the past of a world through its present and the future, because before refers to the past and for past from past to future must notably past through the present.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It will not be modified because this Japanese raw scan proves to us that Lucius sees in other timelines with different stories by us writing the history and the citation of this mone.

So already it's not limited to their worlds but to several timelines, in addition to seeing in the future, he sees the cituation and history of other worlds and the way he describes it literally shows that he doesn't just see in the future in some cases.

The kanji (予) gives us a notional fact about the "before" or "beforehand" and the prediction so lucius can see the past of a world through its present and the future, because before refers to the past and for past from past to future must notably past through the present.

Exactly what does this translate to? I don't know japanese and it could very well be out of context.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Exactly what does this translate to? I don't know japanese and it could very well be out of context.

This means that lucius can see the past and even including the years as proof (年) corresponds to "year, counter for years" which are notional faiut lucius can see years from the past to the future but in addition with the previous kanji which gives a notional fact about the past proves to us that lucius can see a whole time line the past and the future so notably the present as well.

And unfortunately for you, this is not out of context, especially since so far only he is capable of it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This means that lucius can see the past and even including the years as proof (年) corresponds to "year, counter for years" which are notional faiut lucius can see years from the past to the future but in addition with the previous kanji which gives a notional fact about the past proves to us that lucius can see a whole time line the past and the future so notably the present as well.

And unfortunately for you, this is not out of context, especially since so far only he is capable of it.

You're not giving an entire translation of the texts. For all I know it could just be a flashback or reminiscience of the past.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

You're not giving an entire translation of the texts. For all I know it could just be a flashback or reminiscience of the past.

At all, this is a Raw chapter 360 of Black Clover where Lucius talks about a world where Spade War never existed, where Yuno is the king where he takes years to become strong, ect a world where Lucius has seen it all.

Black Clover chapter 360 spoilers and raw scans: Yuno lands an attack on Lucius as a flaw in the ideal vision is revealed

With the spoilers for Black Clover chapter 360 out, fans witnessed the fight between Noelle Silva and her mother Acier begin as the two Valkyrie armor-wielding women clashed against each other.

www.sportskeeda.com

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

At all, this is a Raw chapter 360 of Black Clover where Lucius talks about a world where Spade War never existed, where Yuno is the king where he takes years to become strong, ect a world where Lucius has seen it all.

Not really sure if this would qualify for 4-D precog or not since the standards for this are kinda "weird"? Probably better to get someone who knows better on the topic.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Okok, I'll see with someone more qualified on the subject.

 

[CloverDragon03]

For it to be 4-D, he’d need to see all of past, present, and future. However, foreseeing tens of thousands of futures here should give him Multiversal range for his Precog at least

 

[Fwyzzverse]

For it to be 4-D, he’d need to see all of past, present, and future. However, foreseeing tens of thousands of futures here should give him Multiversal range for his Precog at least

On this scan where luvius tells us about a world of kanji gives us facts about the past and another about the years and all this lucius has seen, so in other things he would have already seen the past, present and future of a world.

The kanji (予) refers to notional facts from the past such as "before, beforehand" and the kanji (年) which refers to "year, counter for years".

Lucius can see the years of a timeline but also the past.

Gifts if Lucius sees from the past to the future in a timeline and in tens of thousands of futures/worlds.

Then it's all about 4D precognition

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

For it to be 4-D, he’d need to see all of past, present, and future. However, foreseeing tens of thousands of futures here should give him Multiversal range for his Precog at least

The last part isn’t a thing. Yhwach had this and it was removed if I recall.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yhwach is Yhwach and Lucius is Lucius. I’ve gone over this with other staff, but essentially, the worlds that Lucius can see are worlds that already exist rather than being hypothetical things that don’t physically exist

 

[Fwyzzverse]

You didn't reply to my answer before, sir @CloverDragon03

 

[CloverDragon03]

Because I’m still iffy on it and even if it’s valid, it doesn’t address the “present” part

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Because I’m still iffy on it and even if it’s valid, it doesn’t address the “present” part

Regarding the future part, if Lucius was able to see the entire timeline of the parallel Yuno and including the past years until his future or he becomes King, then he should have seen the present.

You don't go from past to future directly you have to go through the present, so I think I've given enough evidence to prove that.

 

[SqubiNavrdx]

Fix the votings DDM only agreed with MGQ.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Fix the votings DDM only agreed with MGQ.

What is DDM? and Okay, I'll fix that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

What is DDM? and Okay, I'll fix that.

DDM is short for DarkDragonMedeus

 

[CloverDragon03]

Regarding the future part, if Lucius was able to see the entire timeline of the parallel Yuno and including the past years until his future or he becomes King, then he should have seen the present.

You don't go from past to future directly you have to go through the present, so I think I've given enough evidence to prove that.

I'm kinda neutral on this atm, it's definitely a logical conclusion to make, albeit I'm not sure what other staff would say about this and their votes matter more than mine

 

[Fwyzzverse]

I'm kinda neutral on this atm, it's definitely a logical conclusion to make, albeit I'm not sure what other staff would say about this and their votes matter more than mine

Okok thanks anyway.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

I'm kinda neutral on this atm, it's definitely a logical conclusion to make, albeit I'm not sure what other staff would say about this and their votes matter more than mine

Just last thing after promised I see more bother.

Precognition is 4D basic since it acts on the temporal axis of time which is the 4th axis.
So logically it would be a syllogism that Lucius' divination type precognition is 4D.
And since it even extends to other worlds, which you have approved, then 4D also applies.

 

[LordGinSama]

It's only 4-D if you can see an infinite amount of futures, and even then it's not solid. One would need to prove the existence of higher dimensions in black clover via direct statements.


We have litteraly never given out 4-D abilities for being able to see finite amount of futures. This alone isn't nearly enough to qualify for higher dimensional anything. Furthermore Lucius doesn't have retrocogniton, he only has precognition. He can see what happens in the future, not in the past.


Your making it seem like he's viewing the past whenever he's looking into a finite amount of future possibilities.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Ce n’est de la 4D que si vous pouvez voir une quantité infinie de futurs, et même dans ce cas, ce n’est pas solide. Il faudrait prouver l’existence de dimensions supérieures dans le trèfle noir par des déclarations directes.

Show me or was it said that 4D qualifies for an infinite number of futures? And why isn't it solid? I don't really see the higher dimension ratio for 4D and in fact the logical precognition would be 4D since it acts on the time axis, i.e. the 4th.

Nous n’avons littéralement jamais donné de capacités 4D pour être capables de voir un nombre fini de futurs. Cela seul est loin d’être suffisant pour se qualifier pour quoi que ce soit de dimension supérieure. De plus, Lucius n’a pas de rétrocognition, il n’a que la précognition. Il peut voir ce qui se passe dans le futur, pas dans le passé.

I've never seen a rule in relation to this that we have to see an infinite number of future tenses regarding 4d.

Vous donnez l’impression qu’il regarde le passé chaque fois qu’il examine une quantité limitée de possibilités futures.

It's not the mio that gives the impression but the kanji that shows it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Show me or was it said that 4D qualifies for an infinite number of futures? And why isn't it solid? I don't really see the higher dimension ratio for 4D and in fact the logical precognition would be 4D since it acts on the time axis, i.e. the 4th.

"For abilities such as Fate Manipulation and Precognition or those similar to qualify for Universal+ range, they should have feats or statements that confirm their ability to affect a 4-dimensional space-time continuums in its entirety. Likewise, the same applies for higher tiers and the corresponding structures one would need to affect to qualify for their range."

I think @LordGinSama is referring to 2-A range, he made a mini-mistake on the quantity part, but the point is still the same

 

[LordGinSama]

Show me or was it said that 4D qualifies for an infinite number of futures? And why isn't it solid? I don't really see the higher dimension ratio for 4D and in fact the logical precognition would be 4D since it acts on the time axis, i.e. the 4th.

I don't need to? That's literally how higher dimensions work. 4-D is an infinity above 3-D. 3-D is finite, 4-D is infinite. And no, Precognition is not 4-D, that'd be the equivalent of me saying anyone who can see the future has 4-D Precognition. Just because something is temporal doesn't make it higher dimensional.

Your using blatant extrapolation here. Just because someone can see the future doesn't make it 4-D. For something like that you'd need mentions of higher dimensions, or Lucius viewing an infinite amount of timelines.


Simply seeing thousands of time-lines doesn't qualify for 4-D. Essentially he'd either have to effect said time-lines all in one go, have direct statements of him viewing into a higher realm, etc.



I really don't think you understand how the wiki treats higher dimensional stuff. It's nuanced, complex and overall difficult for it to get passed.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Je n’en ai pas besoin ? C’est littéralement ainsi que fonctionnent les dimensions supérieures. 4-D est un infini au-dessus de 3-D. 3-D est fini, 4-D est infini. Et non, la précognition n’est pas la 4-D, ce serait l’équivalent de dire que quiconque peut voir l’avenir a la précognition 4-D. Ce n’est pas parce que quelque chose est temporel qu’il est de dimension supérieure.

I've just figured it out for 4D and I've just read but let's imagine I see an entire timeline, would it work?

Vous utilisez ici une extrapolation flagrante. Ce n’est pas parce que quelqu’un peut voir l’avenir qu’il est en 4D. Pour quelque chose comme ça, vous auriez besoin de mentions de dimensions supérieures, ou de Lucius visualisant une quantité infinie de lignes temporelles.

I see, I just understood.

Le simple fait de voir des milliers de lignes de temps n’est pas admissible à la 4-D. Essentiellement, il devrait soit effectuer lesdites lignes de temps en une seule fois, avoir des déclarations directes de lui regardant dans un royaume supérieur, etc.

So Okok is on seeing an entire timeline that wouldn't apply?

Je ne pense vraiment pas que vous compreniez comment le wiki traite les choses de dimension supérieure. C’est nuancé, complexe et globalement difficile à adopter.

I just read the threads, ect... in speed I just understood for the 4D is not eligible but at least according to Dragon the multiversal preco.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

I think @LordGinSama is referring to 2-A range, he made a mini-mistake on the quantity part, but the point is still the same

What do you mean on the quantity part? Could you explain to me if you don't mind?

 

[LordGinSama]

@ImmortalDread is admittedly much smarter than me in that regard so she can give you a more clear explanation than I could. I'm more so the type who explains in layman's terms so to speak.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

@ImmortalDread is admittedly much smarter than me in that regard so she can give you a more clear explanation than I could. I'm more so the type who explains in layman's terms so to speak.

okay thank you