Lucifero vs Obito

[Arkenis]

so deconstruction and not matter manip

The Truth Seeking Balls are superior to Onoki's Dust Release, which turns targets to dust on a molecular level, even before Yin-Yang Release is applied to it.

This is basically decon dude, don't split hairs with this.

 

[theultimate5105]

The Truth Seeking Balls are superior to Onoki's Dust Release, which turns targets to dust on a molecular level, even before Yin-Yang Release is applied to it.

This is basically decon dude, don't split hairs with this.

First of all it’s not They are different hax and if you resist one You can still be killed by the other.

 

[Arkenis]

First of all it’s not They are different hax and if you resist one You can still be killed by the other.

The applications stated in his matter manipulation are literally talking about it being superior to an ability that deconstructs matter to a molecular level. So its just matter manipulation that decon to molecular lvl. Lucifero can resist that. And no matter and decon are very similar to each other when applied in this way. Obito's matter manipulation is honestly a misinterpretation of the tso's but regardless its not that big of a difference here at all.

 

[theultimate5105]

The applications stated in his matter manipulation are literally talking about it being superior to an ability that deconstructs matter to a molecular level. So its just matter manipulation that decon to molecular lvl. Lucifero can resist that. And no matter and decon are very similar to each other when applied in this way. Obito's matter manipulation is honestly a misinterpretation of the tso's but regardless its not that big of a difference here at all.

Obito can make his TSOs have matter Manip if he wants to
and no they are not the same if they were Matter Manip resistence would allow you to resist deconstruction (it doesn’t in literally every single thread)

 

[Arkenis]

Obito can make his TSOs have matter Manip if he wants to
and no they are not the same if they were Matter Manip resistence would allow you to resist deconstruction (it doesn’t in literally every single thread)

the tso's matter manipulation is literally based off being superior to onokis Decon. Its not insanely different to each other. Also when has he controlled matter with the tso for this to be a point?

 

[SuperStar]

Obito has no wins cons idk why we’re still discussing this

 

[CloverDragon03]

And Lucifero scales far higher than DU Asta and the Twin devils, who are 26.5 Teratons. Which makes it a 3X AP gap. Yea Obito stands no chance here

Lucifero is actually 53 teratons, so that's a gap of over 6x

 

[CloverDragon03]

Obito has no wins cons idk why we’re still discussing this

Agreed. Obito can't harm Lucifero's heart, he's far weaker, etc. This is a stomp

 

[Deceived3596]

Lucifero Via Stomp.

 

[theultimate5105]

Lucifero is actually 53 teratons, so that's a gap of over 6x

And Jubbito is >>>>>>12.5 teratons

the tso's matter manipulation is literally based off being superior to onokis Decon. Its not insanely different to each other. Also when has he controlled matter with the tso for this to be a point?

No Onokis is accepted as matter Manip
and being superior would mean basic resistence would not be enough

 

[SuperStar]

Lucifero is actually 53 teratons, so that's a gap of over 6x

Yea this was before he got upgrades so the match didn’t age well at all

 

[Arkenis]

And Jubbito is >>>>>>12.5 teratons

No Onokis is accepted as matter Manip
and being superior would mean basic resistence would not be enough

its basically been decided this is a massive stomp in Luci's favor, even if I agreed tso are better than Luci's resistance, Luci still has gravity magic

 

[Epsilon_R]

When it comes to destruction, Matter Manip and Deconstruction are exactly the same, the only difference is that Deconstruction is only limited to... well deconstruct/destroy matter while Matter Manip can do a bunch of stuff aside from that.

It's just like the difference between Mind Manipulation and Madness Manipulation I believe

 

[Epsilon_R]

Btw Lucifero's Magic Power is so high that he has a forcefield that blocks attacks, not even Yuno's Saint Spirit of Zephyr could cut him because of that, even though SoZ works damn well against Devils.

I doubt Obito can get around that tbh

 

[theultimate5105]

its basically been decided this is a massive stomp in Luci's favor, even if I agreed tso are better than Luci's resistance, Luci still has gravity magic

Gravity magic which does not stop Obitos genjutsu or soul rip. The deciders for a stomp seem to not notice that Luciferos gravity hax Is only 4 times above Jubbito and seem to think that a six times gap is enough to instant kill past regen

 

[speedster352]

Gravity magic which does not stop Obitos genjutsu or soul rip. The deciders for a stomp seem to not notice that Luciferos gravity hax Is only 4 times above Jubbito and seem to think that a six times gap is enough to instant kill past regen

Regen is low mid. He also ignores durability with gravity magic and warps space so truth seeker orbs are not effective.

 

[Deceived3596]

Gravity magic which does not stop Obitos genjutsu or soul rip

Juubito doesn't use Genjutsu whilst in-character and Soul rip is only through the Rinnegan, which i don't believe i need to explain to you why Juubito physically touching Lucifero is not going to happen.

The deciders for a stomp seem to not notice that Luciferos gravity hax Is only 4 times above Jubbito and seem to think that a six times gap is enough to instant kill past regen

Low-Mid Regeneration doesn't allow you to regenerate from being turn into Mush by Gravity, or even severe brain-damage which Lucifero's Gravity Manipulation would definitely cause Juubito.

 

[speedster352]

Also on luciferos page, the note about the arcane and saint stage is repeated twice someone needs to fix that.

 

[Azevedo128]

Gravity magic which does not stop Obitos genjutsu or soul rip. The deciders for a stomp seem to not notice that Luciferos gravity hax Is only 4 times above Jubbito and seem to think that a six times gap is enough to instant kill past regen

Lucifero has one shot Spirit Dive Yuno who's stronger than Obito.

 

[theultimate5105]

Lucifero has one shot Spirit Dive Yuno who's stronger than Obito.

And? One shots only work if they are one shotting a higher value with the other having ZERO upscaling.

 

[speedster352]

And? One shots only work if they are one shotting a higher value with the other having ZERO upscaling.

Your back. Thats awesome. Also lucferos gravity affects space and spacial manipulation counters truth seeker orbs as shown with kamui and might guy bending spaces. His gravity is passive and with his ap gap Obito will become a puddle and he only has low mid regen. So luci wins

And Lucifero scales far higher than DU Asta and the Twin devils, who are 26.5 Teratons. Which makes it a 3X AP gap. Yea Obito stands no chance here

 

[theultimate5105]

Dude Jubbito scales pretty far above his AP value Which negates the fact that the Lucifero one shot someone who scales to a higher value. So Lucifero only has a 4x AP advantage

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Dude Jubbito scales pretty far above his AP value Which negates the fact that the Lucifero one shot someone who scales to a higher value. So Lucifero only has a 4x AP advantage

And Lucifero literally is not using his full power and nothing stops him from using it and becoming even stronger

 

[speedster352]

Dude Jubbito scales pretty far above his AP value Which negates the fact that the Lucifero one shot someone who scales to a higher value. So Lucifero only has a 4x AP advantage

Luci has durability negation and spacial manipulation to counter truth seeker orbs all he has to do is destroy juubito head or just crush him with his magic.

 

[theultimate5105]

Luci has durability negation and spacial manipulation to counter truth seeker orbs all he has to do is destroy juubito head or just crush him with his magic.

Crushing him with his magic again will not work
destroying his head is easier said then done

 

[speedster352]

Crushing him with his magic again will not work
destroying his head is easier said then done

Luci has the ap advantage and his gravity is also based on ap. The gravity manipulation will work unless proven otherwise.

 

[speedster352]

Where are the black clover supporters?

 

[Deceived3596]

They aren't here since it's already been decided on by the vast majority of people that this is a stomp for Lucifero.

There's just some people who can't deal with that and are arguing already debunked points so we're waiting until this gets closed given its a stomp.

 

[theultimate5105]

Luci has the ap advantage and his gravity is also based on ap. The gravity manipulation will work unless proven otherwise.

Yeah an AP advantage which is not the AP required to one shot
also funny that I am arguing debunked points when most of the points for Lucifero are saying His gravity can one shot
anyways it’s clear nobody will be convinced by anything I say so I will just call it quits from here on out

 

[Armorchompy]

Was asked to close this