- 14,575
- 5,876
This hasn't been concluded yet.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Lucario vs Monkey D. Luffy
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
- Status
- 15,998
- 6,001
How does Luffy get past Instinctive Reaction?
- 1,826
- 366
Speed Amps from his gears or his own precog.
- 15,998
- 6,001
Lucario can counter that with Agility, and I'm not sure how Precog helps with Lucario will just dodge the attack.
- 1,826
- 366
Luffy can Precog and see that Lucario can instinctively dodge his attacks, from that point on its just a matter of mixing up his attack strategy in order to prevent Lucario from dodging his attacks. Luffy also possesses the stamina advantage, so he's not going to fall that easily. Calaca help me out here
- 15,998
- 6,001
I mean, I still don't see how switching up your attack gets past Instinctive Reaction.
Luffy does have the stamina advantage yes.
Luffy does have the stamina advantage yes.
- 1,826
- 366
Hm. I guess the stamina advantage was the point I was really trying to drive home. What's the AP for both?
- 4,955
- 3,768
The OP has stated that they are in their stronger form, so I guessing Mega Lucario vs Gear Fourth Luffy.
For AP, G4 Luffy should be >3GT Via multipliers from G3 which is slightly above baseline due to power progression. Mega Lucario os stated to be above Marowak with Thick Club so >1.06GT
EDIT: Luffy is above 3GT in G4, while Lucario is above 1.06GT in his Mega Form
For AP, G4 Luffy should be >3GT Via multipliers from G3 which is slightly above baseline due to power progression. Mega Lucario os stated to be above Marowak with Thick Club so >1.06GT
EDIT: Luffy is above 3GT in G4, while Lucario is above 1.06GT in his Mega Form
- 4,955
- 3,768
@Milky Rocking Bandit - How good is Lucario's Instinctive Reaction?
But then again, won't Instinctive Reaction be rendered irrelevant since Luffy can easily predict his movement and attacks wherever Lucario is dodging to. With both opponents constantly dodging each other, it will turn into a battle of attrition I believe, in which Luffy is superior in stamina.
And let's not add in that G4 Snakeman Luffy, who is designed against opponent who likes to dodge. Every time he missed and stretch, Luffy's attack speed is constantly getting faster and stronger. Lucario may dodged well, but with the ever growing pressure of constantly avoiding ever-increasing punches, Lucario will be draining their stamina much faster and will eventually be caught.
But then again, won't Instinctive Reaction be rendered irrelevant since Luffy can easily predict his movement and attacks wherever Lucario is dodging to. With both opponents constantly dodging each other, it will turn into a battle of attrition I believe, in which Luffy is superior in stamina.
And let's not add in that G4 Snakeman Luffy, who is designed against opponent who likes to dodge. Every time he missed and stretch, Luffy's attack speed is constantly getting faster and stronger. Lucario may dodged well, but with the ever growing pressure of constantly avoiding ever-increasing punches, Lucario will be draining their stamina much faster and will eventually be caught.
- 15,998
- 6,001
It'll definitely turn into a battle of stamina, as to which Lucario will lose, but he has things he can do to prevent that, such as Intimidator, which is Fear Manipulation. Not to be confused with Intimidate.
If Luffy goes G4, Lucario can go Mega, and will definitely notice this. As such, will probably counter with something like Reversal.
If Luffy goes G4, Lucario can go Mega, and will definitely notice this. As such, will probably counter with something like Reversal.
- 1,826
- 366
I get that Reversal gets stronger, the lower a Pokemon's HP is but would that really help close the AP gap? Especially considering Luffy has Blunt Force Resistance. Wouldn't Lucario be better off going with Force Palm? Seeing as how that move is basically like the Rokougan from One Piece (at least according to Pokémon's anime.)
- 14,575
- 5,876
Nothing is stopping Luffy from just Haoshokuing Lucario to tame him.
Busoshoku Haki is also a counter for the Steel-Type (kinda), so if he gets hit he'll get a lot of damage, even more if it's with a Red Hawk (but he can't do it in G4 forms) so he'll be punching harder via "anti-metal" and fire punch. Take the anti-metal argument with a grain of salt tho, it's unknown if the ability to "cut through anything and nothing" is for swordsmen only or it's a natural Haki ability (which probably is, considering how Haki kinda negates a lot of things from DF powers).
Lucario'd need either a massive AP advantage or a form of Negation of Resistance to Resistance Negation to harm him with physical strikes if Luffy enters in G4. Doflamingo's Haki was basically lolnoped by Boundman's resiliency when Haki ignores the resistance to Blunt Force Luffy has. So he has to resort to other type of attacks, considering even piercing damage is prevented with Haki.
Instinctive Reaction can only help you so far as the opponent isn't basically overwhelming you with progressively faster punches that always come back to you. Future Sight also will tell Luffy where Lucario will dodge so he can throw a punch and once Lucario has dodged it he'll have the other punch next to it because of the prediction, pressuring him even if he can't touch him at first. The next punch will be faster and will be closer to Lucario the longer he tries to dodge.
Busoshoku Haki is also a counter for the Steel-Type (kinda), so if he gets hit he'll get a lot of damage, even more if it's with a Red Hawk (but he can't do it in G4 forms) so he'll be punching harder via "anti-metal" and fire punch. Take the anti-metal argument with a grain of salt tho, it's unknown if the ability to "cut through anything and nothing" is for swordsmen only or it's a natural Haki ability (which probably is, considering how Haki kinda negates a lot of things from DF powers).
Lucario'd need either a massive AP advantage or a form of Negation of Resistance to Resistance Negation to harm him with physical strikes if Luffy enters in G4. Doflamingo's Haki was basically lolnoped by Boundman's resiliency when Haki ignores the resistance to Blunt Force Luffy has. So he has to resort to other type of attacks, considering even piercing damage is prevented with Haki.
Instinctive Reaction can only help you so far as the opponent isn't basically overwhelming you with progressively faster punches that always come back to you. Future Sight also will tell Luffy where Lucario will dodge so he can throw a punch and once Lucario has dodged it he'll have the other punch next to it because of the prediction, pressuring him even if he can't touch him at first. The next punch will be faster and will be closer to Lucario the longer he tries to dodge.
- 15,998
- 6,001
That's true. Luffa FRA.
- 40,459
- 12,940
- Thread starter
- #54
@Calaca.
A lot is stopping Luffy from taming Lucario, namely mind resistance.
Also Lucario has more than just auto dodge. He outright reads minds and movements. Plus all his (fighting) attacks are supplemented with aura so it's not like it's just physical blows, even discounting the massive spikes on the back of his hands. Even beyond that, he has Foresight, which makes those immune to normal and fighting moves able to be hit by them. And I doubt Luffy's resistance is above that of the ethereal.
Agility boosting > Snakeman when it comes to speed.
Also removing speed equal.
A lot is stopping Luffy from taming Lucario, namely mind resistance.
Also Lucario has more than just auto dodge. He outright reads minds and movements. Plus all his (fighting) attacks are supplemented with aura so it's not like it's just physical blows, even discounting the massive spikes on the back of his hands. Even beyond that, he has Foresight, which makes those immune to normal and fighting moves able to be hit by them. And I doubt Luffy's resistance is above that of the ethereal.
Agility boosting > Snakeman when it comes to speed.
Also removing speed equal.
- 15,998
- 6,001
Okay, I'm gonna let the experts go for now, my knowledge in Lucario is lacking.
- 14,575
- 5,876
Didn't see that before.
Reading mind and movement is okay, but if your opponent is constantly increasing in speed it'll come the time where that'll be useless. Haki also let you read minds and Luffy circunvented that advantage in Skypiea. The aura is still there, but Lucario wouldn't be able to easily read his mind if Luffy does this.
Foresight would null Luffy's regular Resistance, but his G4 has an increased resistance that even resists against attacks that bypass it. Comparing Luffy's resistance to ethereal is incorrect. An ethereal is intangible, and touching an intangible being is NPI, not Resistance Negation. Lucario could only negate Luffy's natural resistance, but if he covers himself with Haki + Gear 4th then he'll be not only more resilient and resistant to the Foresight but with a durability amp. Considering he's scaling above Lucario by a good difference, this make things more difficult for him. Especially since Luffy's Durability is Large Mountain+ in base and his G4 amplifies that to an unknown degree. The claws on his paws ain't good enough to ignore his Haki defenses either. Like I said, Lucario'd need a massive AP advantage or Foresight would need to be especially specific to bypass his Haki fused with his rubber body.
Based on what? Snakeman Luffy's > Boundman's speed and can constantly increase it even more. He'll eventually overwhelm Lucario with a barrage of ricocheting punches around him. If anything they are comparable but Luffy will eventually become faster and will get a good amount of hits. Lucario can't dodge like Katakuri does, shape-shifting his body out of the way.
If nothing else works, Luffy wins the endurance battle like hands down. Lucario won't be able to give a serious wound like the one Katakuri done to Luffy when he was distracted and that still didn't put him down, fighting for like 3 more hours with a hole in the stomach side. On top of scaling to the likes of Ace who can fight at an elemental disadvantage and have a stalemate for 5 days straight.
Reading mind and movement is okay, but if your opponent is constantly increasing in speed it'll come the time where that'll be useless. Haki also let you read minds and Luffy circunvented that advantage in Skypiea. The aura is still there, but Lucario wouldn't be able to easily read his mind if Luffy does this.
Foresight would null Luffy's regular Resistance, but his G4 has an increased resistance that even resists against attacks that bypass it. Comparing Luffy's resistance to ethereal is incorrect. An ethereal is intangible, and touching an intangible being is NPI, not Resistance Negation. Lucario could only negate Luffy's natural resistance, but if he covers himself with Haki + Gear 4th then he'll be not only more resilient and resistant to the Foresight but with a durability amp. Considering he's scaling above Lucario by a good difference, this make things more difficult for him. Especially since Luffy's Durability is Large Mountain+ in base and his G4 amplifies that to an unknown degree. The claws on his paws ain't good enough to ignore his Haki defenses either. Like I said, Lucario'd need a massive AP advantage or Foresight would need to be especially specific to bypass his Haki fused with his rubber body.
Based on what? Snakeman Luffy's > Boundman's speed and can constantly increase it even more. He'll eventually overwhelm Lucario with a barrage of ricocheting punches around him. If anything they are comparable but Luffy will eventually become faster and will get a good amount of hits. Lucario can't dodge like Katakuri does, shape-shifting his body out of the way.
If nothing else works, Luffy wins the endurance battle like hands down. Lucario won't be able to give a serious wound like the one Katakuri done to Luffy when he was distracted and that still didn't put him down, fighting for like 3 more hours with a hole in the stomach side. On top of scaling to the likes of Ace who can fight at an elemental disadvantage and have a stalemate for 5 days straight.
- 5,357
- 730
Monkey D. Luffy For The Reaons Above
- 391
- 17
HAHAH IM HERE NOW
the rubber FRA
the rubber FRA
- 14,575
- 5,876
I see 5 votes for Luffy but I might be wrong.
Me, Gzocker, Milly, Zack and Deer. Dunno if Milly retracted the vote or if someone else voted.
Me, Gzocker, Milly, Zack and Deer. Dunno if Milly retracted the vote or if someone else voted.
- 3,651
- 264
Luff via better precog and access to super effective moves.
- 21,390
- 2,978
Luffy fra
- 3,651
- 264
That should be grace, then.
- 40,459
- 12,940
- Thread starter
- #65
When it comes to stamina, Lucario scales to something that has literally no stamina decrease and not only that, he can heal himself. Reason I say Agility is better is because doubling speed upon every use is better than incremental. Plus like, 2/3 of Lucario's moves are special, with his signature move being impossible to dodge and gets a 2x boost in Mega, not counting the stat amps Lucario can spam. Because Lucario has crazy stat amps. Similar to how Agility doubles speed upon every use, Iron Defense doubles defense and Swords dance doubles attack. There's also the major factor of Lucario inflicting a status with Force Palm or Blaze Kick (resisting Fire doesn't make you immune to the Burn status), with the former crippling movement and the latter crippling attack.
- 14,575
- 5,876
I saw that argument before and I have been never responded of where's the evidence of the stat amps being multipliers outside of game mechanics. Because they affect stats in a linear way, same stats that, IIRC, says that Ninjask is faster and Slaking is stronger than Arceus.
The no stamina decrease could be very well a NLF.
The no stamina decrease could be very well a NLF.
- 40,459
- 12,940
- 14,575
- 5,876
The according revisions to reach FTL speeds with Agility are taking longer than it should then.
- 40,459
- 12,940
- Thread starter
- #69
Dude, you have no idea. They won't even let me upgrade people like Mewtwo and Rayquaza to FTL.
- 14,575
- 5,876
But if multipliers are a thing it should be okay. I have no idea why is it wrong considering there is a verse we all know that has the same things.
- 2,667
- 1,218
I can see why someone would want to be more safe in this situation, but the likes of Mewtwo and Rayquaza should definitely at the very least have a likely FTL rating, even without multipliers, the gap between the speed normal fully evolved Pokémon and SoL is ridiculously small.
- 10,688
- 4,810
they should tbhThe real cal howard said:
- 3,904
- 684
Luffy FRA.
- 14,575
- 5,876
This has been concluded and added.
- Status
Similar threads
