LS Attack Speed with Shinra Tensei

[TheFinalOrder]

Translation: "[[Shinra-tensei (All-Nature Repulsion). Ninjutsu, Keke-genkai, offensive, defensive, close range. Users:Nagato Invisible hand of God, that repels anything in creation! Pain Tendou uses this jutsu, utilizing the generated from the users hands repulsive (gravity) force to repel targets away. The number of targets that can be repelled and their size are irrelevant . In addition by stopping the utilization of other Pain paths the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased. With one strike of its power entire Konoha no sato (Konoha village) was turned to smoldering ash. But after this jutsu has been triggered there is a small five second window it can't be used again. The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation"shinra obiki" (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) forces its targets to collide together with a great force and put out additional damage, combined together with the initial force (shock wave) it puts up even more damage. Only those who can manipulate all chakra transformation properties (seishitsu) legendary "Rinnegan" wielders are allowed to posses this jutsu that has all rights to be called "crystal-perfect". Picture: Its repulsion force is so strong that even ninjutsu and taijutsu are equally ineffective against this jutsu, in additional it can be used to prevent (cant see kanji here,so I don't know that it also can prevent).]]"

• Gravity Waves are LS

This doesn't scale to anyone's speed as nobody has reacted to it. Solely Attack Speed.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I mean since gravity is sol I guess this makes sense

But are you sure no one has ever reacted to a shinra tensei from either Pain Nagato or Madara

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Wouldn't this by extension upgrade anyone who uses gravity to light speed? That doesn't seem right to me

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I believe this is pointless. It's been noted before on this wiki that the initial wave of Shinra Tensei is in fact light speed, but it doesn't scale to anyone's reaction speed because no one has ever reacted to it, only the after-effects of the technique.

 

[BlackeJan]

Yeah but if ya think about it....people stronger then Pein himself would be scaled to it like the high tiers or the god tiers

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Okay, so, explain yourself. How would it scale to people stronger than Pain, when people stronger than Pain only clock in at Relativistic?

 

[BlackeJan]

I'm only just saying cause yeah while it's true we haven't seen one person dodge or evade it, that were people that was actually near Peins lvl or he was just stronger then them. People we know for a fact that could one shot him and also faster would scale to it but if they get LS or Sub Rel or Rel is up to u guys

 

[Callsign_Castle]

This was made before and rejected.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I believe the Intial point is LS but not the rest or something Like that

But this was brought up before and Rejected.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

actually, didnt naruto precog it agaisnt madara?

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

actually, didnt naruto precog it agaisnt madara?

Naruto doesn't have precog, and Madara never used Shinra Tensei in the first place, IIRC. The only Rinnegan power Madara uses consistently is chakra absorption.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

when sakura attacked madara, she was stabbed, so naruto and sasuke wne to save her, only to be thrown away by the shinra tensei. he blocked the attack.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

when sakura attacked madara, she was stabbed, so naruto and sasuke wne to save her, only to be thrown away by the shinra tensei. he blocked the attack.

This is false.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I believe the Intial point is LS but not the rest or something Like that
But this was brought up before and Rejected.

It was rejected under faulty reasoning.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Care to prove it was faulty? "you haven't really explained why it was faulty.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

when sakura attacked madara, she was stabbed, so naruto and sasuke wne to save her, only to be thrown away by the shinra tensei. he blocked the attack.

This is false.

really? then do tell what the truth is

 

[Damage3245]

when sakura attacked madara, she was stabbed, so naruto and sasuke wne to save her, only to be thrown away by the shinra tensei. he blocked the attack.

Madara used Limbo, not Shinra Tensei.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

hmm, yeah, i can see that

 

[AstralKing7]

Care to prove it was faulty? "you haven't really explained why it was faulty.

What's the reasoning anyway cause I don't remember it ever being discussed????

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Googled it in two seconds for you.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1682710

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/597069

 

[Omimi]

actually, didnt naruto precog it agaisnt madara?

Naruto doesn't have precog, and Madara never used Shinra Tensei in the first place, IIRC. The only Rinnegan power Madara uses consistently is chakra absorption.

he has danger sense which is precog

 

[HST_Master]

Wasn't this brought up literally the exact same and rejected?

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

actually, didnt naruto precog it agaisnt madara?

Naruto doesn't have precog, and Madara never used Shinra Tensei in the first place, IIRC. The only Rinnegan power Madara uses consistently is chakra absorption.

he has danger sense which is precog

He doesn't have "danger sense" either. He can sense chakra in Sage/Kyuubi mode. That's it.

Try actually reading his list of abilities on his profile.

 

[Omimi]

He doesn't have "danger sense" either. He can sense chakra in Sage/Kyuubi mode. That's it.

Try actually reading his list of abilities on his profile.

he does have danger sense

 

[AstralKing7]

Lol do people even know Naruto?? His profile even says he has danger sense

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

...It doesn't. There's no listing of "precognition" or anything like that on his profile, at least his Part 2 profile. I even used the find function on my browser to search for relevant terms.

He has extrasensory perception, but that doesn't mean he has precognition. It just means he can sense attacks coming, in the same way that, say, Goku would be able to sense an energy blast fired at his back, without having to see it coming. It doesn't mean he can predict the attack in its entirety, and his EP is clearly not at light speed reaction levels.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

The Argument was that it activates at LS, but it's not travelling at LS, which is nonsensical.

First off, there was no basis to claim it wasn't so it makes no sense to say it wasnt .

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Bump

This was initially rejected on a pure Arbitrary basis. You cannot claim the activation is LS but the propogation of the wave isn't when you have 0 evidence to support that.

This is why it's brought up again.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbh there are many light speed feats in the data books for Shippuden iirc and they aren't hyperboles

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Name exactly one light speed feat from the databook--post scans, if you have them. We've rejected LS Naruto countless times in spite of dozens of arguements, everything from "Haku was LS in part 1" to this rehashed Shinra Tensei debacle.

Shinra Tensei activates at LS due it to being a gravitational manipulation. It isn't 'arbitrary' of us to say that the resultant shockwave doesn't move at light speed, when the actual shockwave is able to be reacted to by people far lower than Naruto's god-tiers (such as Choji), even at the time of Pain. Unless you want to tell me via a compelling arguement that Choji has lightspeed reactions (and thus, so would every half-baked Chunin and Jonin in the series), this makes zero sense.

 

[Paul_Frank]

let me tell you about our lord and savior the light fang

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

The White Fang has no lightspeed feats, either. Before anyone posts anything about "moving faster than the white trail of his chakra blade" or whatever from the databook, the "White Light Chakra Sabre" the White Fang and kid Kakashi used emits what is repeatedly described as "a trail of white chakra" when swung, not a literal trail of light.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I meant the sage art light fang

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Name exactly one light speed feat from the databook--post scans, if you have them. We've rejected LS Naruto countless times in spite of dozens of arguements, everything from "Haku was LS in part 1" to this rehashed Shinra Tensei debacle.
Shinra Tensei activates at LS due it to being a gravitational manipulation. It isn't 'arbitrary' of us to say that the resultant shockwave doesn't move at light speed, when the actual shockwave is able to be reacted to by people far lower than Naruto's god-tiers (such as Choji), even at the time of Pain. Unless you want to tell me via a compelling arguement that Choji has lightspeed reactions (and thus, so would every half-baked Chunin and Jonin in the series), this makes zero sense.

It is arbitrary and Choji never reacted to ST. The Shockwave is LS by virtue of being a Gravitational Wave (Which nobody is denying).

This is why it's nonsense to say it doesn't. You have no basis to claim otherwise.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

bump.

 

[Kepekley23]

This is literally the exact same thread and exact same argument that was rejected in the past.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I don't think it is possible to measure the actual speed of ST I guess it is almost instant in close range and has less traveling speed.We can see it when Nagato destroys Konoha for example,when Momoshiki uses it in Anime (Repels Sasuke's Shurikens) and there may be such instances that I don't remember right now.

But it is most curtainly undodgeable even by God Tiers,I don't remember anyone reacting to the jutsu.The best I can agree with is close range ST being SOL.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

This is literally the exact same thread and exact same argument that was rejected in the past.

I linked every thread on the issue and it's still being discussed.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

This is literally the exact same thread and exact same argument that was rejected in the past.

Basically, the Final Order is trying to refute your past rejection as "arbitrary" and that "since ST manipulates gravity, it should move at light speed".

According to him, you refuted his points "without evidence".

 

[TheFinalOrder]

This is literally the exact same thread and exact same argument that was rejected in the past.

Basically, the Final Order is trying to refute your past rejection as "arbitrary" and that "since ST manipulates gravity, it should move at light speed".
According to him, you refuted his points "without evidence".

This is correct because it is. The Wave moves at LS, and Kep is correct in that things won't be propelled at LS, but that is only due to "Energy".

You need a certain amount of Energy to push a weighted Object at LS. ST has nowhere near the Amount of Energy to do that, thus objects aren't being pushed at LS but the wave is LS. Just as Light is LS, and though Photons can push an object as if it has a small weight, it doesn't have the energy to push us as fast at it moves.