LoZ Downgrades

[ShadMorgen]

Hey, first time making a post like this on this wiki, I'll be addressing some of the utterly ridiculous treatment Zelda has been getting on this wiki. I'll be bringing up points and addressing them in turn, so bear with me, I won't be making long drawn out statements about everything, I'll be going right to the point.


Starting off, Composite Link's AP: "Planet level+ (was able to best Demise in close combat) | At least Dwarf Star level+ (Flipped the planet with the Golden Gauntlets), at least Small Star level with the Master Sword and full Triforce (The Master Sword and any one of the three pieces of the Triforce are superior to his Golden Gauntlets)"

Demise is only planet level through incredibly vague wording in the Hyrule Historia. "Destroy" could be anything from upsetting the natural order, to lifewiping, to planet busting. You don't get to just naturally assume it's a direct planet bust when there is nothing on this level. Given the fact he needed to build an army to attack? One of the quotes is "...who commands enough power to destroy the world,...". Commands. Y'know, like an army? Which is a FAR more logical assumption than him being able to straight up planet bust.

LOLGauntlets feat. Okay first of all, the weapon class is "Gauntlets", and the three levels of weapons in it are "Silver Gauntlets", "Golden Gauntlets" and "Power Gloves" (there is also a joke tier but ignoring that). Specify when he is using or people will assume that he is using the ones from OoT. On to the feat: It was likely a joke calc done by Chaos. The ENTIRE feat is based solely around a single camera shenanigan adding up. This has likely been brough up, but you can view the feat without the camera flipping, which gives hilarious results. Really? It's just far more likely that Link is just slamming it into the floor and ripping it up. Too much against it. Why does it only hit enemies in a...what, 15 foot radius? Why is Link able to fling it around like a light weight, yet suddenly increase to the point where it is easier for him to supposedly flip the planet than yank it out of the ground? Not to mention, the Gauntlet weapons are COMPLETELY non-canon, even to the HW canon, never mind the rest. You obtain them in Adventure Mode, completely optional, nothing to do with the main story, which brings us to the next point.

This is completely laughable. Master Sword "SHOULD" be stronger than the completely non-canon Gauntlets? What kind of argument is this? There are numerous weapons you can obtain in Zelda games solely for the purpose of having a stronger weapon than the Master Sword. You don't just assume it's stronger than it because "lol it SHOULD the bestest weapon". And the complete Triforce, what does this even have to do with putting him above the supposed planet level? Complete full Triforce is a single planet wide reality warping wish, that's about all you can get from it. Why would any single piece of the Triforce give a hard stat boost and possess more power than these supposed planet flipping non-canon Gauntlets? Something other than speculatory nonsense, thanks.

I have plenty more problems with this, however I'm only posting this for now to see if there is any point. Thank you for reading.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It was also stated the Triforce held the world together, I think that's where the planet thing came from.

The Small Star thing was based on a high end of the calc or something IIRC.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Thanks for the quick reply. You got a quote for that? Sounds like you're referring to ALBW.

Got a link to this calc? It REALLY just looks like they are simply assuming that the Master Sword should be more powerful than the Hyrule Warrior Gauntlets.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They are assuming non-canon Master Sword is stronger than non-canon gauntlets, not that the main Master Sword is stronger than non-canon gauntlets.

And no I do not have link to the quote or calc, I just said what I knew.

 

[ShadMorgen]

But that's ridiculous, it's based entirely on assumptions, based on a calc which is based on assumptions.

If ALBW IS what you're referring to, then it was likely when Link and Zelda wished for Lorule's Triforce to return. Which was a wish. The assumption that possessing the Triforce grants an equal power boost to the potential of it's wishes is foolish.

 

[Sora'sOther]

We've already had a thread about this....

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Have we Sora?

 

[Sora'sOther]

yes

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

(I probably should have specified I wanted to see the link to the thread).

 

[Sora'sOther]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/116778

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Woah! And I closed it too! XD

It doesn't seem to address Demise's feat but I'd appreciate it if the OP drops the planet flipping argument.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Next to nothing was addressed in it.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Other than the enemies taking damage proving it's not just camera flips? Or that the calc actually puts it at Large Planet+, not Dwarf Star level? I don't follow Zelda but saying nothing was addressed is false. The canonicity remains in question I noticed, however.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Again, easily chalked up to it being a heavy shockwave. Or more likely, the debris of him ripping the ball out. Look at what I linked. The ENTIRE argument for it being a supposed planet flip was that the "sky rotates with it" which is nothing more than the camera rotating.

If more than 15 feet of enemies took damage, maybe even the whole map? Yeah, you might actually have an argument.

 

[WexterTheRocketDinosaur]

Tbh, as a Zelda fan, most of the "Planet Level" stuff comes from secondary canon and vague statements. The feats we actually SEE are island level and cap at country to continent level (Majora's Mask).

Nobody in these posts are backing up any of their arguments. It's just vague statements supporting vague statements with no confirmation.

 

[Sora'sOther]

Tbh, as a Zelda fan, most of the "Planet Level" stuff comes from secondary canon and vague statements. The feats we actually SEE are island level and cap at country to continent level (Majora's Mask).
Nobody in these posts are backing up any of their arguments. It's just vague statements supporting vague statements with no confirmation.

The fact that nobody notable has yet comment on this thread (expect for mighty)

 

[WexterTheRocketDinosaur]

Tbh, as a Zelda fan, most of the "Planet Level" stuff comes from secondary canon and vague statements. The feats we actually SEE are island level and cap at country to continent level (Majora's Mask).
Nobody in these posts are backing up any of their arguments. It's just vague statements supporting vague statements with no confirmation.

The fact that nobody notable has yet comment on this thread (expect for mighty)

Appeal to Authority. (That's a fallacy)

Also not my point. Nobody on this page has shown anything planet level, except the "Planet Flip", which is based on the assumption that he actually is tossing a planet around, and taking a joke calc as fact, not to mention from a non canon weapon that's non canon to the non canon game.

All I'm asking for is visual proof of any of these planet level claims aside from that. Not statements, feats.

 

[Sora'sOther]

.....That's not what i meant dude, what i meant is that anyone that is well versed in the series and can provide a decent counter agrument to the post has yet to comment (expect for mighty)

 

[ShadMorgen]

I'll save you time, you won't get one.

Feel free to prove me wrong people.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am not that experienced with legend of zelda, and do not know much

But from what I see, this makes sense.

While calculations do > WoG/Author Intent usually, something this inconsistent and high end makes no sense

Legend of Zelda is one of those games where characters are either multi-continental to possibly moon level, or universal+ due to messing with the timelines or the destruction of a dream realm or something. There is no middle ground, as it rarely delves into stuff about outer space. So for a calculation to say Link can destroy Jupiter many times over, for example, makes utterly no sense.

 

[ShadMorgen]

.....That's not what i meant dude, what i meant is that anyone that is well versed in the series and can provide a decent counter agrument to the post has yet to comment (expect for mighty)

TheMightyRegulator even said he doesn't follow Zelda, stop using them as an example.

 

[Sora'sOther]

.....That's not what i meant dude, what i meant is that anyone that is well versed in the series and can provide a decent counter agrument to the post has yet to comment (expect for mighty)

TheMightyRegulator even said he doesn't follow Zelda, stop using them as an example.

Dude chill, i didn't know that, i just assumed he did...

 

[ShadMorgen]

I'm chill breh.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Planet level comes from the Triforce's ability of reality warping, as demonstrated in ALBW. Also, I'm well versed in Zelda, so feel free to talk to me about this kind of stuff.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Planet level comes from the Triforce's ability of reality warping, as demonstrated in ALBW. Also, I'm well versed in Zelda, so feel free to talk to me about this kind of stuff.

Through a wish upon obtaining the full Triforce. Assuming that being in possession of it gives a raw stat boost of that level is a baseless assumption. Not to mention, full Triforce is SO non-standard in a VS battle setting.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What does SO mean? And yes. It's on Link's page that only the full triforce grants the planet level rating. (Posessed the full triforce when beating Demise.)

It's not that much of a baseless statement. Heck. If anything, it's a good assumption, seeing how it could be universe+ due to containing the power of the Golden Godesses. We could say the same thing about Mario's star rod and crystal stars. Or SSG Goku. New items/forms can give that level of boost, since there's no contradictions otherwise.

Several fictional franchises have vague levels. Heck. We have a page for GASTER. Demise has no contradicting feats, and is only defeated by Hylia, a goddess, and full Triforce Link

Also, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Peach. Prime example of wishing for tier boost.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

"Not to mention, the Gauntlet weapons are COMPLETELY non-canon, even to the HW canon, never mind the rest. You obtain them in Adventure Mode, completely optional, nothing to do with the main story, which brings us to the next point."

This is composite link....also as been stated before the triforce has reality warping abilities(to a certain extent)

other than that the feat resulted 2.6 tetons or large planet level

and does not the calc say "As the screen/map/planet flips counter clockwise, Link's body is moving clockwise" i am confused what does that have to do with the camera.

 

[ShadMorgen]

What does SO mean? And yes. It's on Link's page that only the full triforce grants the planet level rating. (Posessed the full triforce when beating Demise.)
It's not that much of a baseless statement. Heck. If anything, it's a good assumption, seeing how it could be universe+ due to containing the power of the Golden Godesses. We could say the same thing about Mario's star rod and crystal stars. Or SSG Goku. New items/forms can give that level of boost, since there's no contradictions otherwise.

Mario and Goky have nothing to do with this. "SO" is the word "so" in capitals. Possessing the full Triforce does not make you magically planet level, the Triforce's real power is a high level single reality warping wish. And do not mention the Golden Goddesses nonsense, that has nothing to do with this, and is as vague and open to interpretation as you can get.

 

[WexterTheRocketDinosaur]

What does SO mean? And yes. It's on Link's page that only the full triforce grants the planet level rating.
It's not that much of a baseless statement. Heck. If anything, it's a good assumption, seeing how it could be

"universe+ due to containing the power of the Golden Godesses."

Feats? Scans? Proof?

"We could say the same thing about Mario's star rod and crystal stars. Or SSG Goku. New items/forms can give that level of boost, since there's no contradictions otherwise."

That is literally the opposite of how it works, or else we could say every new character/item/weapon that shows up in fiction is megaversal and can't be beaten.

Again, I ask for actual proof, and I get people just saying things.


I bet you're really good at playing Ace Attorney.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

EXAMPLES, bro. Everyone uses them. You didn't refute any of my points.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

the triforce of power,courage,wisdom.....grants more than just a simple wish

 

[ShadMorgen]

EXAMPLES, bro. Everyone uses them. You didn't refute any of my points.

Everyone but you? Even that Peach page you linked has no links or evidence. Don't be a hypocrit.

You're basing everything on statements. I don't need to bring up examples of otherwise, because you're going solely under the assumption that "well nothing says they AREN'T, therefore they must be!"

Are your really going to make me link every single instance the full Triforce has been summoned and a wish has been made? Really?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Wexter and @Shad. I'm saying that universe+ would be the baseless assumption. And ALBW does give proof of planet level reality warping. Just as Mario's star rod gives proof on planet level reality warping, or SSG Goku gives proof on multi-galaxy power. So because If Link did this without anything, I would adress this. Which is the point made here. I tried to make the same arguement to get Darkspine downgraded a long time ago, and got the same response I'm giving you guys.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

EXAMPLES, bro. Everyone uses them. You didn't refute any of my points.

Everyone but you? Even that Peach page you linked has no links or evidence. Don't be a hypocrit.
You're basing everything on statements. I don't need to bring up examples of otherwise, because you're going solely under the assumption that "well nothing says they AREN'T, therefore they must be!"

Are your really going to make me link every single instance the full Triforce has been summoned and a wish has been made? Really?

By examples, I meant using Mario and Goku as examples. And Saitama's (another example, seeing how you misenturpreted me) Planet level is though statements. Beerus' and Goku's clash came through statements from Old Kai originally. And the best use of the wish was in ALBW to restore Lorule. A parallel world.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

TBH the person who made the calc was probably messing around

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=25436

 

[WexterTheRocketDinosaur]

@Wexter and @Shad. I'm saying that universe+ would be the baseless assumption. Just as Mario's star rod gives proof on planet level reality warping, or SSG Goku gives proof on multi-galaxy power. So because If Link did this without anything, I would adress this. Which is the point made here.

"And ALBW does give proof of planet level reality warping."


Could you point me to where I could find this? I don't own the game personally.


"I tried to make the same arguement to get Darkspine downgraded a long time ago, and got the same response I'm giving you guys."


Doesn't make it right. Consensus=/=fact

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

A crudton of our calcs come from people messing around while being lazy. iirc, a lazy calc is what made DBZ characters Sub-Rel @ Saiyan saga and FTL+/MFTL by Buu

 

[ShadMorgen]

What does SO mean? And yes. It's on Link's page that only the full triforce grants the planet level rating. (Posessed the full triforce when beating Demise.)

Link did not have the Triforce in his possession when he defeated Demise, it wasn't even in that time period. Have you forgotten that they wished to destroy Demise in the current timeline, which made the island plummet, and the Triforce went back to the Sealed Grounds?

Here.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright. You got me there. Kudos to you, Shad. ALBW still holds up though, and Demise's statement still holds up. You've got to remember that this is a composite Link, and not just a single Link throughout the games. All of his feats are taken together, and meshed into a "Knight-of" character.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the record. That was not sarcasm. I commend you for stumping me.