LoZ Downgrades

[Sheoth]

This thread is going through 100 different things from 100 different Zelda games at once. Or at least thats how I see it considering I've never played a Zelda game in my life.

I see we are arguing something along the lines of Ganondorf being as strong as Majora? And Demise somehow relates to this by being as powerful as the full Triforce?

Can someone briefly summarize it for me?

 

[ShadMorgen]

I will address the points you guys have brough up when I get home from work. I thank ye for remaining patient.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Okay, I'll start off with saying that I have never played a single Link game and that I am just going to provide my opinion on a few things.
1. The planet flipping does in fact seem a bit excessive for the lack of information we are given about the feat. However, just because the planet was flipped does not mean it has to turn to night time, necessarily. Link can stay in the same spatial location as he does it and merely rotate the planet around himself (still a "flip")

2. The quote about the three pieces of triforce needing to be together to have full power...doesn't seem to say that at all. That is a very liberal interpretation of what is being said there and I am uncomfortable interpreting it that way.

3. I agree that "power to destroy the world" doesn't necessarily mean he can destroy the world. However, even if he dies by island drop, it wouldn't prove he isn't planet level, just that his durability is bad.

4. It seems that Majora > ToC Link in several aspects, so yea, it is probable he doesn't scale, however....

5. What is all this stuff about goddesses empowering the Triforce? If it is truly the case that the goddesses put their full powers into the Triforce, then the theoretical height of Link's power (not his shown, his height) would be at their level. I don't think this justifies saying "planet level" but higher/lower depending on exact statements. The only way I can see this being applied to "planet level" is if we know what happened to the other world that got ruined and calc that.

6. I think I saw a quote about the source of Majora's power being related to the goddesses? That would make a lot of sense if we scale the Triforce to the godesses.

1. But still, no matter how you slice it, with the camera or without, the lighting IS going to change. Honestly, fter going back over it several times? It really does seem like he slams the ball into the ground, then rips it out hard enough to damage all the enemies around hi

2.I'll explain it to you, since most people here have played the games, there wasn't much need to go over basics. The Triforce is made of three parts, as you have no doubt gathered, when all three are in close proximity, they resonate with each other and call down the Triforce. This is a good example. The three combine and the actual Triforce comes down, which you then touch and get granted a single reality warping wish. You can be ninja'd to it. The pieces then bugger off. (Implied back to the Sacred Realm)

3. True enough. But another point is that all of Demise's attacks are physical. DC = durability for instances like this. If he did have this power and his durability was so bad? He'd physically destroy himself. And again, there is still NO actual evidence of him being planet level, outside of this vague open to interpretation hyperbolic statement. Lack of evidence supporting this doesn't back it up.

4. Agreed.

5. The problem is? They don't actually power it. Here are a few quotes. "After the gods had finished their work, they left the world, but not before creating a symbol of their strength, a golden triangle known as the Triforce." (A Link to the Past manual, pg. 3). It's merely their symbol. This doesn't mean pieces of it directly scale to them. When you say "other world", I assume that you are referring to Lorule? Lorule was crumbling to pieces because THEIR Triforce was destroyed, Link and Zelda used Hyrule's Sacred Realm's Triforce to restore theirs, which saved it. That's about all that is shown. Here is a video that shows this all. Interestingly they note "Kingdom"...

6. ...I have seen no such quote, 'nor heard of this. Is it possible that you misread something?

 

[ShadMorgen]

I said that if he ripped it out of the ground it would've gotten dark from the land's shadow. So using shadow's to debunk a clear planet flip isn't gonna fly.

ToP provides the boost. You also straight up ignored my point about Ganondorf using the full Triforce several times in ALttP without losing it.

How the hell am I supposed to pull up a Demise planet-busting feat? There's only 1 planet we know of in the series, and he only shows up for one fight. Not only that but you're the one contesting the claim he's planet level, so the burden of proof lies on you.

Here is literally what I'm saying

Goddesses > Full Triforce > Hylia = Demise (Demise being slightly lower, possibly) > ToP > Majora > ToC/ToW

This isn't really relying on a "hyperbole statement", we've had Multi-Continental feats in the series before. I see no reason why someone powerful enough to challenge a Goddess shouldn't be above that.

Excuse me? So are you admitting that it isn't a planet flip? I am glad we have come to this conclusion.

You haven't shown anything, that's why I'm ignoring it.

So you have absolutely no evidence that he is planet level outside of this vague, open to interpretation statement? That doesn't make him planet level man. If anything, it points to the opposite. And no, that isn't how this works. Until you show evidence backing him up at being planet level, the burden of proof is still on you.

What evidence is there that Hylia is equal, or stronger than Demise? I haven't seen any. Outside of the non-canon manga, I can't actually find any. Let me know if you find anything. Actually? The ToC seems to be inferior to the ToP, as evidence by this quote from Ganondorf, "My only mistake was to slightly underestimate the power of this kid... No... It was not the kid's power I misjudged, it was the power of the Triforce of Courage!" — Ganondorf (Ocarina of Time). Which would imply that the ToC > ToP right? Or maybe they are equal? And we know that Majora is > the ToC so...

Then why aren't you showing me these "feats". The only multi-continental feat in all of LoZ is Majora's moon drop explosion. Scales only to FDM and Majora.

 

[ShadMorgen]

This thread is going through 100 different things from 100 different Zelda games at once. Or at least thats how I see it considering I've never played a Zelda game in my life.
I see we are arguing something along the lines of Ganondorf being as strong as Majora? And Demise somehow relates to this by being as powerful as the full Triforce?

Can someone briefly summarize it for me?

Hey Sheoth, funnily enough, the last two posts actually act as a sort of summary, heh. If you have anymore questions though, feel free to ask them.

 

[The_great_ZZ]

The thread is finally over.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

@ShadMorge

• You can see the planet flipping, did you bother reading the calculation?

• You're completely leaving out the fact that the Tri Force pieces do infact empower their beholders.

• Demise could also be Planet Level via power-scaling from Ganon so...

• Agreed Majora > ToC, however ToC can still be scaled to multi-contient from Faro

• The Triforce is not merely a symbol... it is described as an "omnipotent" power

• I don't recall anything from the games that even implied that Majora was related to the Golden Goddesses.

 

[The_great_ZZ]

This thread is going in circles.

 

[Antvasima]

It is also turning too long. I will create a new thread for people to continue the discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

Continue discussing here please.