Low 2-C Naruto Removal (These Profiles Suck Ass Edition)

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Still in agreement with Deceived.

 

[CraigTucker]

Still in agreement with Deceived.

Whaw about mwe

 

[Deceived3596]

-

 

[CraigTucker]

-

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Whaw about mwe

 

[CraigTucker]

Y you bwulling mwe

 

[CraigTucker]

Been some what a long time since there is no respond, so after 24 hours will this get accepted and Low 2-C will get nuke?

 

[RanaProGamer]

What is the evidence shown that the abilities are shown to be different? if it just the same argument using from the Guidebooks than I still disagree here

The TSB itself has different properties than the manga version, there’s also the fact that the ETSB doesn’t expand and remake the dimension, but outright blows up and absorbs everything.

 

[RanaProGamer]

I'm going to preface this response with the fact that I'm not going to address the separate time-space scans since I never disagreed with them innately. My argument is contingent on two premises.

1. These dimensions aren't universal in size, which is a requirement for Low 2-C.

2. There isn't enough evidence to assume Kaguya was going to destroy most of, if not the entirety of her dimensions

These dimensions having a separate space-time from the main naruto universe wouldn’t address these premises. So with that made clear, I'll now address why the arguments proposed by Rana aren’t good defeaters to my arguments.

Scan in reference:



While it’s possible that “inter dimensional” could reference “parallel universe”, it’s not the common definition of what the word implies, nor would it be the most likely interpretation when provided with context.

This scan, and more specifically this statement is in reference to the battle between Kaguya and Crew, in which Kaguya was constantly traveling through and between her different alternative dimensions. It’s more likely that when the statement references “inter dimensional” they are referencing the fact they’re traveling between different alternative dimensions during their fight, not that these alternative dimensions are parallel universes.

Also “alternative dimensions” and “parallel universes” aren’t considered the same thing, especially on the wiki. Alternative Dimension, by definition of the word, doesn’t inherently imply a level of scope or size, while Parallel Universe does. Just because something is called an “alternative dimension” it doesn’t mean we consider it universal in size without further context. Kaguya’s dimensions don’t have this further context.

Scans in reference:



There’s a multitude of unneeded assumptions you’re making just to argue for the existence of these dimensions being universal in size when the evidence itself has more probable explanations.

You’re assuming that these red-hue structures are in-fact redshifts, and since they’re redshifts, they must act like how redshifts act within our world.

The problem with that assumption is that you’re assuming these, in the first place, are redshifts when that’s never explicitly or implicitly stated. It’s because they exist in the space and have a red-hue to them you’re assuming these are redshifts, which requires more leaps in logic since:

1. An object having a “red-hue” to them doesn’t mean said object has that “red-hue” through the Doppler effect, especially within a fictional setting.
   
   
2. Redshifts happen when objects, like stars or nebulas, are far away from our view, to the point that the object in question has its wavelength increased while its frequency and photonic energy decreased, causing the change in coloration. We, by sheer limits of our sight, can't see the reddish-hue of redshifts because of the distance of these objects to our range of sight. It’s functionally impossible, we would need things like telescopes to actually see the redshifts happening, but since we’re capable of seeing these supposed “redshifts” with our baseline eyesight, it calls into question if these are actually redshifting objects or just structures with a reddish-hue for artistic effect, as it backdrops well with the blueish-purple background of Kaguya's dimensions.

You also assume it would act like how redshifts act in our world, which is another unneeded assumption since the existence of redshifting happening doesn’t mean we would assume every single aspect of redshifting would be applicable to this fictional setting in question. It’s similar to how we don’t assume black holes, which have properties of real black holes, are actual black holes and would have every single aspect of what black holes have within our world. That’s just appealing to reality at that point.

You can have the Doppler Effect and Redshifting exist without the need of the dimension in question being universal in size, those are not prerequisites.

It’s because of these reasons that I don't agree these are redshifting objects, it’s more assumptive to assume they’re, and even if we agree that they’re redshifting, it doesn’t mean we would assume all properties true, like the continued expanse of a universe.

I’ve basically addressed the blueshifting/redshifting argument above, so I’m not going to address that again.

While it could be its own universe(s), the actual likelihood of that being true is extremely low given everything I’ve seen, it wouldn’t even qualify for a possibly rating in my opinion since the evidence isn’t reliable or notable, it’s just purely based off of assumptions which aren’t exactly supported, and require more leaps to assume true compared to my position.

Scan in reference:



It wouldn’t be consistent since that scan in specific is referencing the entire Naruto “universe” in which the game takes place in, it isn’t in reference to anything in relation to Kaguya’s dimensions. Just because it uses the term “universe” doesn’t mean, when in reference to Kaguya’s dimensions, we would assume that “inter dimensional” would more likely mean a parallel universe compared to alternative dimensions or traveling between different spaces. That’s pure nonsense.

4-A is fine, 3-C i don’t agree with and Low 2-C is pure speculation and headcannony, even as a possible rating.

That literally means nothing, shinobi history isn’t a universal constant, it’s in clear reference to the planet that shinobi live on, it’s the planet that the actions, cultures, cities, societies etc. of shinobi were born and continue to happen on, these mfs aren’t on that Samurai 8 grindset bruh.

Deceived’s post really wraps it up super nicely. And just to add on to the redshift point. The reason irl we can distinguish between when an object is being redshifted is because we know about the object itself. That isn’t the case here, in fact said object could just be emitting light in optically “red” zone. We have objects like that irl anyhow.

Furthermore, even if the objects were redshifted (implying some spatial expansion) that doesn’t prove the space is universal in size. The space could be in the midst of expanding while also being much smaller than a universe.

You know what, I can agree with the redshift section. Though I want to confirm if it can still be 3-A since even if we take Kaguya’s dimension as 4-A, the Ninja dimension is called a ‘universe’ according to the databook and Kaguya would be destroying both her dimension and likely a portion of Naruto’s dimension to the destroy the ninja world.

 

[Da3ggman]

I agree with the thread via Deceived reasons

 

[CraigTucker]

I agree with the thread via Deceived reasons

What about mwe

 

[CraigTucker]

The TSB itself has different properties than the manga version, there’s also the fact that the ETSB doesn’t expand and remake the dimension, but outright blows up and absorbs everything.

So because 1 component is different would mean that the hole abilities are different? Appeal to tradition and no the TSB exactly was expanding as it kept on growning in the game. So yea nothing new here

 

[CraigTucker]

You know what, I can agree with the redshift section. Though I want to confirm if it can still be 3-A since even if we take Kaguya’s dimension as 4-A, the Ninja dimension is called a ‘universe’ according to the databook and Kaguya would be destroying both her dimension and likely a portion of Naruto’s dimension to the destroy the ninja world.

Sadly it being called "universe" doesn't matter as it shown that the dimensions are just other type of land worlds Ie. the world of ice. Still disagree here. and it wasn't goign to destroy the shinobi world thats a flat out assumption and when it comes to the "shonibi world" its more referring to earth. Get Mind hax

 

[RanaProGamer]

Sadly it being called "universe" doesn't matter as it shown that the dimensions are just other type of land worlds Ie. the world of ice. Still disagree here.

Not what my argument was. The ninja world is located in a dimension stated by a databook to be a universe, since Kaguya's ETSB was gonna destroy her own dimension and the ninja world, she'd be destroying (at least a portion of) the ninja dimension as well.

 

[RanaProGamer]

So because 1 component is different would mean that the hole abilities are different? Appeal to tradition and no the TSB exactly was expanding as it kept on growning in the game. So yea nothing new here

My guy, there was an entire thread to decide that, if you want to change that, I suggest you make your own thread to get that accepted as it holds zero relevancy in this thread.

 

[CraigTucker]

My guy, there was an entire thread to decide that, if you want to change that, I suggest you make your own thread to get that accepted as it holds zero relevancy in this thread.

I ask where is this thread again, and I am sorry but most of y'all brought the argument against my premise so it does hole relevence here, if the TSO are different by fault it would mean that the rest are differemt? That's just being fallicious

 

[CraigTucker]

Not what my argument was. The ninja world is located in a dimension stated by a databook to be a universe, since Kaguya's ETSB was gonna destroy her own dimension and the ninja world, she'd be destroying (at least a portion of) the ninja dimension as well.

Your argument: the Ninja dimension is called a ‘universe’ according to the databook and Kaguya would be destroying both her dimension and likely a portion of Naruto’s dimension to the destroy the ninja world.

The dimension being called universe isn't enough just like how transcending Space and time isn't enough for 5D as it needs further context. And I already explain how ninja world isn't some universe modal jumbo. Mind Hax

 

[RanaProGamer]

I ask where is this thread again, and I am sorry but most of y'all brought the argument against my premise so it does hole relevence here, if the TSO are different by fault it would mean that the rest are differemt? That's just being fallicious

https://vsbattles.com/threads/databooks-naruto-ultimate-ninja-storm-profiles-crt-2-5.138372/
The only reason we argued against your premise is that you're trying to use something that was never accepted in the first place. I've highly suggested many users to check what was and wasn't accepted by checking the previous threads, all of which I have linked btw.

 

[RanaProGamer]

The dimension being called universe isn't enough just like how transcending Space and time isn't enough for 5D as it needs further context. And I already explain how ninja world isn't some universe modal jumbo. Mind Hax

You didn't provide a single scan this whole thread. I provided 5-6 databook scans to back up my arguments. Bit hypocritical don't you think?

 

[Trihexa102]

Your argument: the Ninja dimension is called a ‘universe’ according to the databook and Kaguya would be destroying both her dimension and likely a portion of Naruto’s dimension to the destroy the ninja world.

The dimension being called universe isn't enough just like how transcending Space and time isn't enough for 5D as it needs further context. And I already explain how ninja world isn't some universe modal jumbo. Mind Hax

Bruh you have literally shown no proof or evidence other than argue points I still don’t understand. At least have something to show so we know u do know what you are saying.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Also Craig you wanna talk about Fallacies? I got one for you, Burden Of Proof. You've been consistently asking us to disprove your arguments when the burden of proof has been on you to prove it.

 

[CraigTucker]

You didn't provide a single scan this whole thread. I provided 5-6 databook scans to back up my arguments. Bit hypocritical don't you think?

1. Most of the evidence here support my point as there has been somewhat a condraiction towards the scaling but I will send the scans if you want since what do you want me to prove.

2. There are different type of evidence like reasoning so please don't use a word that you may not understand meatball scrubby doggie

 

[RanaProGamer]

1. Most of the evidence here support my point as there has been somewhat a condraiction towards the scaling but I will send the scans if you want since what do you want me to prove.

Game scans, if you send manga/manga databook scans, I will end this convo right here.

2. There are different type of evidence like reasoning so please don't use a word that you may not understand meatball scrubby doggie

I agree, there are different types of evidence, but do you know what they all have in common? Proof to back it up. Something that everyone in this thread has agreed that you have yet to present. Your evidence is literally on belief and constantly ignored what the game databooks say without anything to back it up.

 

[CraigTucker]

1. The worlds in the games aren't shown to be universal mumbo jumbo as it shown that there is the following
a. the world of fire: at 5:59
b. The world of sand: 6:17
c. The world of ice: 6:59
It's doesn't shown that thse dimensions are anywhere universal but more of a world type dimension

2. Time and Space doesn't mean 4D construct as the words are just switch around, when a word is switch around it shows that there is a different meaning like God to dog both are different things and "Time Space" needs context for it to be a 4D construct in this wiki.

3. Those statements from guidebook games stated they affected Space and time is inherently untrue because in the games it has shown that space is only being warp to make a hole to travel to different arears.

Minato:
Kaguya
kaumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMdKSZgoGBU&t=14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSq6DIIumY4

4. Someone already explain the hole parallel dimension point for me so I don't need to over that.

 

[Trihexa102]

1. The worlds in the games aren't shown to be universal mumbo jumbo as it shown that there is the following
a. the world of fire: at 5:59
b. The world of sand: 6:17
c. The world of ice: 6:59
It's doesn't shown that thse dimensions are anywhere universal but more of a world type dimension

2. Time and Space doesn't mean 4D construct as the words are just switch around, when a word is switch around it shows that there is a different meaning like God to dog both are different things and "Time Space" needs context for it to be a 4D construct in this wiki.

3. Those statements from guidebook games stated they affected Space and time is inherently untrue because in the games it has shown that space is only being warp to make a hole to travel to different arears.

Minato:
Kaguya
kaumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMdKSZgoGBU&t=14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSq6DIIumY4

4. Someone already explain the hole parallel dimension point for me so I don't need to over that.

nothing you have shown here disproves anything he is saying though.

 

[CraigTucker]

nothing you have shown here disproves anything he is saying though.

1. That's what "you" think but even than I prove that those dimensions aren't universe size but more just smaller than it since there is no point of assuming the size of kaguya dimensions are universal models as these dimensions are just different type of lands(ice, sand and fire) not universe

2. In the games its shown all the "Space Time" ninjustus aren't space time manipulation but more of portal creation/warping space so the guidebooks is condraicted here. Anyways scratch that as ren agreed with the kaguya point of how she affect space

 

[MrKerf]

1. The worlds in the games aren't shown to be universal mumbo jumbo as it shown that there is the following
a. the world of fire: at 5:59
b. The world of sand: 6:17
c. The world of ice: 6:59
It's doesn't shown that thse dimensions are anywhere universal but more of a world type dimension

You can copy url of the video with timecode. Like so: https:// youtu.be/K1E99pThWEc?t=359 or https:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1E99pThWEc&t=364s
Just right click -> copy url with timecode (or smt, I don't have english version).

EDIT: Added spaces, but you got the idea.

 

[Trihexa102]

1. That's what "you" think but even than I prove that those dimensions aren't universe size but more just smaller than it since there is no point of assuming the size of kaguya dimensions are universal models as these dimensions are just different type of lands(ice, sand and fire) not universe

2. In the games its shown all the "Space Time" ninjustus aren't space time manipulation but more of portal creation/warping space so the guidebooks is condraicted here. Anyways scratch that as ren agreed with the kaguya point of how she affect space

They are called time-space by Obito , Kaguya , Sasuke and more. It's up to you to prove they are not. Kaguya's time-space jutsu is different from the regular types , It's the strongest version which allows her have complete manipulation of her time spaces she created . and like Arc said even if the redshift means its till continually expanding( meaning not quite there yet) it will still get there , so possibly 3A will suffice.

 

[CraigTucker]

They are called time-space by Obito , Kaguya , Sasuke and more. It's up to you to prove they are not. Kaguya's time-space jutsu is different from the regular types , It's the strongest version while allows her complete manipulation of her time spaces she created . and like Arc said even if the redshift means its till continually expanding( meaning not quite there yet) it will still get there , so possibly 3A will suffice.

Your assuming that time-space would be 4D by fault with no context and those time space has been mistraslated towards it being dimension hence the word "Time-Space" in naruto is just kaguya small pocket dimension. She's manipulating her space as ren scan support it

 

[MrKerf]

So, it all boils down to size of dimensions, whether they all are the same size, and whether they have time there?

Size should be covered by that star-nebulae dimension. To say that red spots aren't nebulae is kinda... weird, like, then show what else can it be, but it's still warants Possibly rating.

Dimensions are what these worlds called, so we'd need direct statements that these dimensions can be of smaller sizes then the star one. Yes, from the games only.

Time? Eh, I have no idea. I can make an argument that, if default Ninja world is called dimension, that would mean it is equal to Kaguya's dimension, etc, etc, time. But I am not sure.

 

[CraigTucker]

So, it all boils down to size of dimensions, whether they all are the same size, and whether they have time there?

Size should be covered by that star-nebulae dimension. To say that red spots aren't nebulae is kinda... weird, like, then show what else can it be, but it's still warants Possibly rating.

Dimensions are what these worlds called, so we'd need direct statements that these dimensions can be of smaller sizes then the star one. Yes, from the games only.

Time? Eh, I have no idea. I can make an argument that, if default Ninja world is called dimension, that would mean it is equal to Kaguya's dimension, etc, etc, time. But I am not sure.

It can be an auroa, gas or just a light we cant use the highest interepertation to claim its a red shift nebula

 

[MrKerf]

I think Aurora exists only on planets with any sort of oxygen layers, which mean we wouldn't see that cosmic background so clear, and anyways those looked nothing like red auroras.
Light would be... just a dot, if you mean light from a star.
Don't know about gas, but I'd imagine it'd look more wavy. Not sure though.

 

[RanaProGamer]

1. The worlds in the games aren't shown to be universal mumbo jumbo as it shown that there is the following
a. the world of fire: at 5:59
b. The world of sand: 6:17
c. The world of ice: 6:59
It's doesn't shown that thse dimensions are anywhere universal but more of a world type dimension

Congrats, I already conceded that Kaguya's dimensions are 4-A at best. Man, you seriously need to work on what's being argued here.

2. Time and Space doesn't mean 4D construct as the words are just switch around, when a word is switch around it shows that there is a different meaning like God to dog both are different things and "Time Space" needs context for it to be a 4D construct in this wiki.

There was plenty of context, the databook consistently use Time and Space as literally warping time and space. It would on you to prove that the context is not correct.

3. Those statements from guidebook games stated they affected Space and time is inherently untrue because in the games it has shown that space is only being warp to make a hole to travel to different arears.

Kaguya has two abilities, one is Yomotsu Hirasaka which everyone knows is portal creation. And second is Amenominaka which is warping space, Also in the same video you linked, Sasuke states space is being changed at will, so thanks for proving my point. video you linked, https://youtu.be/K1E99pThWEc?t=375. Please show where these holes are being created, the databook is in no way being contradicted, if anything explains how the ability works.

Minato:
Kaguya
kaumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMdKSZgoGBU&t=14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSq6DIIumY4

Besides Yomotsu Hirasaka, I don't see a single portal here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You know what, I can agree with the redshift section. Though I want to confirm if it can still be 3-A since even if we take Kaguya’s dimension as 4-A, the Ninja dimension is called a ‘universe’ according to the databook and Kaguya would be destroying both her dimension and likely a portion of Naruto’s dimension to the destroy the ninja world.

So even if the Ninja world dimension is 3-A, Kaguya wouldn’t be 3-A with her etso because of it. Since it’s as you said, she’s destroy her dimension (4-A) and some unknown amount of the Ninja world dimension (we know it would include earth so it’s some value above 5-B). So no 3-A doesn’t apply.

 

[CraigTucker]

I think Aurora exists only on planets with any sort of oxygen layers, which mean we wouldn't see that cosmic background so clear, and anyways those looked nothing like red auroras.
Light would be... just a dot, if you mean light from a star.
Don't know about gas, but I'd imagine it'd look more wavy. Not sure though.

I think unknown would be better since we can wait for my evidence to support which one is better

 

[RanaProGamer]

So even if the Ninja world dimension is 3-A, Kaguya wouldn’t be 3-A with her etso because of it. Since it’s as you said, she’s destroy her dimension (4-A) and some unknown amount of the Ninja world dimension (we know it would include earth so it’s some value above 5-B). So no 3-A doesn’t apply.

Alright then, I guess we can drop the Low 2-C rating. Though since we see a starry sky surrounding all of Naruto's world, so 2x 4-A?

 

[MrKerf]

Congrats, I already conceded that Kaguya's dimensions are 4-A at best. Man, you seriously need to work on what's being argued here.

Boooooo.

Well, that's disappointing.

 

[CraigTucker]

do I have to make a point or just drop it since low 2-C is agreed to drop?

 

[CraigTucker]

@RanaProGamer is it fine if I refute or not

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

do I have to make a point or just drop it since low 2-C is agreed to drop?

Staff has to agree with the changes not just with the downgrade but whatever you gonna put in its place