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Can we stop relying on him? He did nothing in last several Mario threadsDid Dino Ranger Black respond?
Anyway, I am leaning towards agreeing with Medeus. He seems to have the most balanced and well-considered take here.I'm honestly burned out and honestly don't care whether or not Universal upgrades get approved, but I do agree that maybe revaluating the tiers for the mid tier bosses to find their own consistent feats rather than being scaled from Mario or Bowser would be something if Mario gets upgraded. But Grand Stars do amp their physical stats, and speed and have their own consistent Universal feats. So those physically amped should be universal physically. Saying, "None of those other bosses destroyed the universes" could be argued for a bunch of other characters who are "Comparable if not superior to others who do have universal feats."
I just vehemently disagree with Matt about downgrading Mario to anything less than Tier 4 or Massively FTL+ based on the countless and innumerable feats on these levels that are very consistent with the lore. Especially since Dreamy Luigi's case, he actually does physically sneeze away star constellations on multiple occasions.
It's less relying on him and just allowing him to give his own input.Can we stop relying on him? He did nothing in last several Mario threads
I hate to be that guy, but that happens because a few staff members disagreeing with something tend to close these kinds of threads, even if a huge amount of people disagree with them. It feels less like discussing and "try to convince the staff members because your input hardly matters otherwise" here. Let's not act like there isn't a reason why that happens. That's frustrating as hell for a lot of normal users. I agree we should try to remain civil, though.People need to stop constantly throwing shade at staff in these threads. It's annoying and does not build any trust or respect.
Just woke up. This is just going back and forth, and its already been established that there are several Low 2-C feats, at least in Galaxy.
Bowser seems to only really stunned by the Galaxy Reactor for a bit, and touching it doesn't instantly incinerate him, so he is able to tank the heat, albeit slightly.
Looking back on the statements, Bowser did indeed survive the Low 2-C Blast, and he was in the epicenter of it, as stated in the guide book, "his immediate fate". However, it is also noted that it was "his narrow escape from a terrible fate". But in the cutscene, he wasn't like near death or anything, he was just shaken, this is even noted in the guidebook. So Base Bowser tanked the epicenter of the Low 2-C Blast, and he was shaken by it, but not near death. However, had he stayed too much longer, he likely would have died.
Mario can take on several bosses with Grand Stars, which are pretty much accepted to be Low 2-C, and he can trade blows with them.
To summarize, I propose that we just slap a Varies from Multi-Solar System level to at most Universe level+ for the base cast. Bowser tanked the epicenter of a Low 2-C blast, but if he stayed too much longer, he likely would've died. However, the fact that he didn't immediately die, nor was heavily injured by the initial explosion shows that he did tank it. And there are also the various other Low 2-C feats that were brought up. But these are definitely the higher end of the feats, since they can't no-sell the Low 2-C attacks. So this is what I'm proposing, otherwise this thread is gonna last forever.
Ditto. Let's stop arguing until he has had the time to properly respond please.I did ask for both sides to wait patiently for Dino Ranger Black to properly read over the thread when he has time to see what he says.
Staff members are meant to regulate the conversation for it to remain civil. Their vs opinion has no reason to be greater than of an average user.Thank you to everybody who are trying to calm things down.
Anyway, the thing is that from the staff members' perspective, they are constantly working hard for free to help this community function properly, and if they do not accept the upgrades that fans of various franchises want to impose, they still recurrently get accused of power abuse and corruption. It can be very tiring in the long run.
and if they aren’t reasonable?Staff members are also intended to evaluate content revision threads, and make judgements, in order to avoid that hordes of fans for every verse overwhelm all opposition with sheer numbers and vote all of the verses of this wiki to completely exaggerated and unreliable statistics.
That said, they are obviously intended to try to try to be reasonable, listen to, and be convinced by the arguments of the regular members.
I think we've already covered this train of thought thoroughly, and continuing to explore it anymore will lead to further derailment, which this thread absolutely does not need.and if they aren’t reasonable?
We’re just chilling till Dino comes. Has he been contacted?Is this thread gonna be closed or no?
Since its getting heated a bit
As long as people don't attack each other's characters anymore it should be good..Is this thread gonna be closed or no?
Since its getting heated a bit
It's not just Heat Resistance, Gyro, it's the fact that a small portion of the energy of the reactor powered by a Grand Star harms Bowser. It's not a matter of heat is that Bowser cannot be scaled to Grand Stars (Even in Base, which was the argument) as he is demonstrably inferior to a fraction of the energy of a Grand Star.Pretty sure heat resistance doesn't translate to physical durability here. He also cannot be defeated this way, and the only significant damage dealt to him is via Mario's own attacks. Also Bowser was only directly amped in Mario Galaxy 2.
This is not my argument, my argument is that if Bowser is stronger than the other "Grand Star-amped" Bosses, and yet he cannot touch the Grand Star reactor without burning, it stands to reason that the amp doesn't scale to the potential full power of the Grand Star (Which are Low 2-C scaling to the Reactor Collapse anyway). The issue is that simply being powered by a thing does not necessarily mean that you scale to the full power of said thing.Why is he only using a fraction of the Grand Star's full power? Mario is Bowser's archnemesis, he has every incentive to use the Grand Star's full power to defeat Mario. Same goes for any of the other Grand Star amped bosses.
He got up just fine after waking up groggy. We see no injuries on Bowser's body whatsoever, and the description makes it clear that Bowser was caught in the destruction of the universe, "Mario and Peach escape Bowser's immediate fate" and all that.He wasn't just groggy, he couldn't even stand up straight, which he was shown to still be able to do after Mario beat him up. Also if the argument is that Bowser's injuries from the universe's destruction were "reset", it would hardly make sense for him to still retain his injuries from Mario as well.
Well it has been brought up in numerous threads and always rejected. And it is being discussed in this thread.I don't recall this happening close to "dozens upon dozens of times" before, and would appreciate it if one of the main points of the thread is left to be evaluated and discussed properly.
Feel free to delete derailing posts if it will decrease the thread size..Should I delete the derailment? The thread having more than 700 comments isn't just a number.
No debunks or arguments here, just the "it doesn't make sense"@Antvasima I have gone over DDM's comment. While he's technically right about many of the feats, the main issue isn't the legitimacy, it's the coherence. Just a couple months ago, everyone were breaking down the franchise, taking down feats (Especially the flat out bad and ridiculous ones), and making sure they follow the standards of the wiki. It's even agreed multiple times that Mario isn't a shonen anime (It's more of a fantasy/adventure-like) nor are we treating the franchise as one and I remembered a few people actively getting angry or argued against being accused of doing so when. Now all of the sudden, they are dumping that all away and retconing that very argument say stuff like "Oh Mario gets stronger now" just because they are vouching for a Low 2-C Toad, proving their point. I don't know where it has to do with competition with other franchises or personal desires but no matter how you see it, this is the very definition of throwing all sense of logic out of the window. As Ryu, Matt, and many others have said and you yourself have acknowledged, this change is just illogical. The franchise nor its characters warrants this scale due to the gap of the feats themselves making this a huge leap in power for basic building blocks reasons and how ridiculous power scaling will be. It has nothing to do with whether it happened or not. We didn't mindless scale Brianne or any of Universe 2's fighters despite the amount of times they confronted Universe 8's heavier hitters, why should do it here? Does Wingo being Low 2-C because of a Toad he fought sounds rational and reasonable? No, it does not. And neither does this.
And those are the arguments I hate the most.Once again DRB’s argument boils down to just arguing from incredulity. There’s not a single proper debunk in there.