Low 1-C neutral space dbs

[TiltedFN]

This has reached 5 pages long and barely anything of note has happened because of members spamming messages that do not add anything. It makes it very hard for staff and other knowledgeable members to navigate through the posts that do mean something.

It is getting to the point that this may to be remade as a staff-only thread.

I am surprised no discussion moderators have made the effort to clean things up.

i did reply to ultima and deagon with updated arguments but they have yet to respond, and the messages just kept piling up, i can resend the summary here.

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah the neutral space is a 5-D realm for surrounding all the 12 universe, with them being parallel to each other, we were arguing whether it was insignificant 5-D or Low 1-C. And we have been talking about temporal dimensions and the timelines also, i brought forth the point that since the neutral space is its own dimension which was stated in a scan, and said to be its own space, i said it would also have to have its own temporal dimension that overarches the macrocosms and the neutral space itself, so in total it would have to be qualitatively superior, so low 1-C. Which mind you is STILL under a bigger timeline also.

Low 1-C, we have the neutral space which is argued to be insignificant 5-D, and then the temporal dimension of the neutral zone would be qualitatively superior, and then its still contained under a bigger timeline, it can't be less than low 1-C.

Well it's not really an assumption, this "different space from that of the 12 universes" implies that it is a different dimensional space, meaning it would have it's own time, the translator made sure to make that clear with the context that was provided, and i feel like it just makes more sense for it to have its own time anyway. It's compared to the world of void and zeno's realm which are different dimensions, so its kind of a given. So the temporal dimension would be qualitatively superior to the insignificant 5-D neutral space resulting in low 1-C, which is still under a higher time flow.

well, even Ultima said the neutral space is 5D, just it alone is unqualifiable and thus can't be tiered, so the entire bigger timeline is qualifiable and significant enough to be tiered, no reason for timeline to not be 5D at least

Yes, the neutral space is insignificant 5-D, the temporal dimension of the neutral zone would give that qualitative superiority to the entire construct making it 5-D low 1-C, the timeline is also a higher temporal dimension since it contains everything apart of its higher time flow, which is technically 6-D. But i just want to make it clear that the timeline should bare minimum be 5-D.

Here is the currently argued topic. I just made sure to post most of it. Try not to fill this with more comments please.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This has reached 5 pages long and barely anything of note has happened because of members spamming messages that do not add anything. It makes it very hard for staff and other knowledgeable members to navigate through the posts that do mean something.

It is getting to the point that this may to be remade as a staff-only thread.

I am surprised no discussion moderators have made the effort to clean things up.

I agree with that, I asked a moderator to moderate this crt to delete unnecessary derailments and such, but he didn't care...

well, even Ultima said the neutral space is 5D, just it alone is unqualifiable and thus can't be tiered, so the entire bigger timeline is qualifiable and significant enough to be tiered, no reason for timeline to not be 5D at least

anyway time for me to sleep bruhh, hope you guys chill

You know very well about Tier 1 things, could you create a crt with a more detailed explanation and put it in the team members tab so that you can have a good review, if it's not too much to ask?

 

[TiltedFN]

I agree with that, I asked a moderator to moderate this crt to delete unnecessary derailments and such, but he didn't care...

You know very well about Tier 1 things, could you create a crt with a more detailed explanation and put it in the team members tab so that you can have a good review, if it's not too much to ask?

dude we don't need another crt, just wait.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

dude we don't need another crt, just wait.

It is difficult for team members to evaluate this'-'

 

[GarrixianXD]

I‘m agreeing with 5-D here, neutral on Low 1-C just to clarify to everyone.

 

[Vietthai96]

I‘m agreeing with 5-D here, neutral on Low 1-C just to clarify to everyone.

but but.........5D is Low 1-C

You know very well about Tier 1 things, could you create a crt with a more detailed explanation and put it in the team members tab so that you can have a good review, if it's not too much to ask?

It is pretty much redundant, because me making another thread isn't going make thing go different way

 

[GarrixianXD]

but but.........5D is Low 1-C


It is pretty much redundant, because me making another thread isn't going make thing go different way

Qualitative superiority something something look thinking about this makes me die

 

[Vietthai96]

Qualitative Superior is just a made-up subjective term that can be used for anything

 

[Reiner04]

but but.........5D is Low 1-C

Every multiverse from 2-C to 2-A would be Low 1-C with that.

Anyway, Deagonx, Ultima, DDM has rejected this thread. Will this still continue for no reason? Or should I ask for closure?

 

[Vietthai96]

Every multiverse from 2-C to 2-A would be Low 1-C with that.

I mean, yeah, why not, if they affect not only the multiverse but also a significant 5D space

 

[Reiner04]

I mean, yeah, why not, if they affect not only the multiverse but also a significant 5D space

I believe you misunderstood, multiversal feats involves affecting both, Universes and space between:

Same.

It's not Low 1-C, the space between Universes is 5D regardless the logic applied but their size is too insignificant for such upgrades, we don't allow all Multiverses to be Low 1-C just because they can only be displaced at 5D axis. There must be a statement regarding their significance size comparison with singular spacetime or all of multiverse.

Go to the link and DT said so,

And, to my knowledge, I believe we already use the 5-D space reasoning as part of the regular justification for tiers like 2-C and 2-A. It's why the gap between them is treated as "unquantifiable," because, ideally, feats that warrant them involve affecting both the universes and the space between them.

Same said by Ultima.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

still didn't address what if there's a timeline encompassing 12 2-C sized structures which are located inside an insignificant 5-D space which also make said timeline encompass the space

I believe you misunderstood, multiversal feats involves affecting both, Universes and space between:

Go to the link and DT said so,

Same said by Ultima.

 

[Reiner04]

still didn't address what if there's a timeline encompassing 12 2-C sized structures which are located inside an insignificant 5-D space

If it's Low 1-C then I would have upgraded ben 10 long ago. But to adress it, our default standard states that all of Universes inside the multiverse is served by mere one time axis and hence, take it 12 or infinite, all of them are sub-timelines inside one timeline technically.

Can't believe sister doubting my judgement, smh.

 

[TiltedFN]

Every multiverse from 2-C to 2-A would be Low 1-C with that.

Anyway, Deagonx, Ultima, DDM has rejected this thread. Will this still continue for no reason? Or should I ask for closure?

DDM didn't even give his thoughts fully, and like I said, ultima and deagonx have yet to respond the the updated arguments because they even said they only updated the OP and asked me to give a summary basically, the neutral space is insignificant 5-D, the temporal dimension fulfills that qualitative superiority requirement, which is still contained under a bigger time flow, at the very least it's low 1-C.

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah the neutral space is a 5-D realm for surrounding all the 12 universe, with them being parallel to each other, we were arguing whether it was insignificant 5-D or Low 1-C. And we have been talking about temporal dimensions and the timelines also, i brought forth the point that since the neutral space is its own dimension which was stated in a scan, and said to be its own space, i said it would also have to have its own temporal dimension that overarches the macrocosms and the neutral space itself, so in total it would have to be qualitatively superior, so low 1-C. Which mind you is STILL under a bigger timeline also.

Low 1-C, we have the neutral space which is argued to be insignificant 5-D, and then the temporal dimension of the neutral zone would be qualitatively superior, and then its still contained under a bigger timeline, it can't be less than low 1-C.

Well it's not really an assumption, this "different space from that of the 12 universes" implies that it is a different dimensional space, meaning it would have it's own time, the translator made sure to make that clear with the context that was provided, and i feel like it just makes more sense for it to have its own time anyway. It's compared to the world of void and zeno's realm which are different dimensions, so its kind of a given. So the temporal dimension would be qualitatively superior to the insignificant 5-D neutral space resulting in low 1-C, which is still under a higher time flow.

well, even Ultima said the neutral space is 5D, just it alone is unqualifiable and thus can't be tiered, so the entire bigger timeline is qualifiable and significant enough to be tiered, no reason for timeline to not be 5D at least

Yes, the neutral space is insignificant 5-D, the temporal dimension of the neutral zone would give that qualitative superiority to the entire construct making it 5-D low 1-C, the timeline is also a higher temporal dimension since it contains everything apart of its higher time flow, which is technically 6-D. But i just want to make it clear that the timeline should bare minimum be 5-D.

Just wait for them to respond, I want to make it easier for them to go through this, stop trying so hard to get this closed with those reasonings, ultima himself said he has not read the updated arguments, nor has deagonx.

 

[Robo432343]

the same logic still applies dude

kingdom hearts actually has scans of qualitative superiority unlike dragon balls

 

[omegabronic]

Just wait for them to respond, I want to make it easier for them to go through this, stop trying so hard to get this closed with those reasonings, ultima himself said he has not read the updated arguments, nor has deagonx.

You know, you could just edit the OP to include the so called "new arguments" that you want the staff to see

 

[Phoenks]

So, is the argument that a temporal dimension that encompasses a multiversal cosmology (multiple universes with their own respective temporal dimensions) embedded within an unquantifiable, but undeniably 5-D space, is Low 1-C?

I can agree with that, if that's what is being argued.

Though, I'm unsure if I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any evidence of there being this second temporal dimension that is encompassing the whole structure.

The 5-D "space" here can't really be tiered even if it is 5-D as it is most likely just a not-measurable void without anything quantifiable to speak of.

However, if there is in fact a temporal dimension that surrounds neutral space, it would be Low 1-C for having two distinct temporal dimensions on top of an at least infinite 3-D space.

 

[Jaakor48]

So, is the argument that a temporal dimension that encompasses a multiversal cosmology (multiple universes with their own respective temporal dimensions) embedded within an unquantifiable, but undeniably 5-D space, is Low 1-C?

I can agree with that, if that's what is being argued.

Exactly, the neutral space is the unquantified 5D realm, the timeline it's embedded in, is the superior Temporal dimension that's low 1c

Though, I'm unsure if I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any evidence of there being this second temporal dimension that is encompassing the whole structure.

It's the timeline itself, in dragon ball, each timeline contains a neutral space that contains the 4d macrocasms (which contains several Soave times within it)

The 5-D "space" here can't really be tiered even if it is 5-D as it is most likely just a not-measurable void without anything quantifiable to speak of.

Yea, this is the neutral space, it was ruled as "insignificant 5D" because it couldn't be properly quantified

However, if there is in fact a temporal dimension that surrounds neutral space, it would be Low 1-C for having two distinct temporal dimensions on top of an at least infinite 3-D space.

Each Timeline (unquantifiable 5D neutral space(set of 4d macrocasms)) basically

 

[Vietthai96]

To be fair here no matter what 5D always > 4D, we just "don't tiering it" because the reason is "it is insignificant", but that doesn't mean, it isn't 5D

 

[Reiner04]

It's the timeline itself, in dragon ball, each timeline contains a neutral space that contains the 4d macrocasms (which contains several Soave times within it)

Exactly, the neutral space is the unquantified 5D realm, the timeline it's embedded in, is the superior Temporal dimension that's low 1c

As per our standards, All multiversal structures has several spacetime continuums (4D structures) that are serviced by mere one time axis/timeline by default, it's not Low 1-C. To have more than one time axis in the verse, you need direct statements, not a multiversal structure that has several spacetime serviced by one time axis.

 

[Jaakor48]

To be fair here no matter what 5D always > 4D, we just "don't tiering it" because the reason is "it is insignificant", but that doesn't mean, it isn't 5D

That's why I specified the "insignificant 5D"

It's 5D but won't actually help with the scale, destroying it would just give 5D range with 4d power from what I've gathered
It does however, give credence to the fact that the timelines are...at worst significant 5D hence, low 1C (and should be 6D tbh, because they are superior to a 5d space, but it's best to just start slow)




But I have 2 questions

1) if the space between universes also contains other objects like stars, is it still seen as insignificant?

2) there are many timelines in dragon ball(gt, super, z, all the movies, all those time rings on zowasu's room I believe), is there a tier for the space holding all the timelines?

 

[Vietthai96]

There are so many "standands" being thrown around here

if the space between universes also contains other objects like stars, is it still seen as insignificant?

The space contain universes should not be insignificant, because how the hell it can be insignificant while holding space-time universe at the same time??

there are many timelines in dragon ball(gt, super, z, all the movies, all those time rings on zowasu's room I believe), is there a tier for the space holding all the timelines?

I mean, timeline isn't different from space-time, so the space holding all the time will be similar to space between space-time universes

 

[Jaakor48]

As per our standards, All multiversal structures has several spacetime continuums (4D structures) that are serviced by mere one time axis/timeline by default, it's not Low 1-C. To have more than one time axis in the verse, you need direct statements, not a multiversal structure that has several spacetime serviced by one time axis.

Neutral space IS the multiversal structure that holds the multiple 4d space times, and it has its own time axis that holds the other macrocasms, this "standard" is the reason it was ruled as insignificant in the first place, it has nothing to do with the superior timeline

Each Timeline is a super spacetime above the neutral space which it contains, which means, it is indeed a low 1c structure, for having a superior zone above the neutral zone which contains 4d timespaces

we also have the world of void which is completely separate from neutral space as well as Zeno's realm which has universes as small orbs atop pillars on a gigantic jellyfish and contains galaxies above and clouds below, and is also completely separate from the neutral zone. All of this is contained inside a timeline.

There are so many "standands" being thrown around here

Yup

The space contain universes should not be insignificant, because how the hell it can be insignificant while holding space-time universe at the same time??

Well, that's how the standard works I guess, I assume it must be infinite in size or have another higher spacetime that contains it to finally be 1c here

I mean, timeline isn't different from space-time, so the space holding all the time will be similar to space between space-time universes

Oh, okay then

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Stop spamming the thread with back and forths, once Ultima got here and Tilted presented the more recent arguments, all you should've done is wait for their response.

So, is the argument that a temporal dimension that encompasses a multiversal cosmology (multiple universes with their own respective temporal dimensions) embedded within an unquantifiable, but undeniably 5-D space, is Low 1-C?

I can agree with that, if that's what is being argued.

Though, I'm unsure if I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any evidence of there being this second temporal dimension that is encompassing the whole structure.

The 5-D "space" here can't really be tiered even if it is 5-D as it is most likely just a not-measurable void without anything quantifiable to speak of.

However, if there is in fact a temporal dimension that surrounds neutral space, it would be Low 1-C for having two distinct temporal dimensions on top of an at least infinite 3-D space.

I can present any sources to the claims I am about to make, I'm currently busy, so ask away and the evidence will be provided in due time.

There is evidence of either a higher or second temporal dimension. It depends on how one interprets it, but given the proposal of a 5-D space being argued, the second temporal dimension arguments gain more reliability.

The evidence is found in the way time travel works in Dragon Ball. There is substantial evidence that each universe bubble contains it's own temporal stream, having at least three or more space-time continuum in them, such as dimensions inside these bubbles that have a different temporal flow and what-not.
Yet, time travel is affected on a multiversal scale, affecting not only these individual temporal dimensions inside each bubble, but also the 5th Dimensional Neutral Space, and everything in it. This is only possible if there was a second temporal dimension that intersects with the entire multiverse, while keeping each temporal dimension individual

 

[Braking]

lets keep this thread under 8 pages it would be improvement

 

[TiltedFN]

So, is the argument that a temporal dimension that encompasses a multiversal cosmology (multiple universes with their own respective temporal dimensions) embedded within an unquantifiable, but undeniably 5-D space, is Low 1-C?

Yes that is right.

I can agree with that, if that's what is being argued.

Though, I'm unsure if I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any evidence of there being this second temporal dimension that is encompassing the whole structure.

It was from a scan that was pretty blatantly implying it was a totally different dimensional space, and even calling it a separate space would have been efficient enough, because in DB, spaces have been referred to spacetimes, but here is the translation from the guidebook.

12 宇宙とは異なる空間に浮かぶ惑星
Planets floating in different spaces from that of the 12 universes

As I said before, calling "different space" (異なる空間), does sound more how they call what is generically here a different dimension, especially considering that they put stuff like the World of Void.

Also, looking into the complete scan


They put the nameless planet in the "neutral space between universes" in the same "space different from that of the 12 universes" as the World of Void and Zen'O palace. So yes, here it's completely in the meaning of a different dimensional space and can be used as proof that the neutral space between universes is like a "neutral dimension between universes", unless the World of Void is now seen just as another part of the same universal space that all 12 universes share and you can get there with a spaceship.

Translation by @Executor_N0 about the neutral space between the Universes

The 5-D "space" here can't really be tiered even if it is 5-D as it is most likely just a not-measurable void without anything quantifiable to speak of.

However, if there is in fact a temporal dimension that surrounds neutral space, it would be Low 1-C for having two distinct temporal dimensions on top of an at least infinite 3-D space.

Exactly, the neutral zone has been decided as unquantifiable 5-D, with it having its own temporal dimension, that qualitative superiority requirement has been reached. With also even that being under a higher time flow, so it should arguably be even higher, but it is low 1-C at the least here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Where is the evidence that the microcosms have their own seperate temporal dimensions? All I am seeing is that they are spatially separated.

 

[TiltedFN]

Where is the evidence that the microcosms have their own seperate temporal dimensions? All I am seeing is that they are spatially separated.

it is already accepted that the macrocosms are 2-C, they have 6 universal spacetimes each.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Where is the evidence that the microcosms have their own seperate temporal dimensions? All I am seeing is that they are spatially separated.

Probably already decided in a past CRT but if anyone knows more it would be good to bring it up as that is the only thing missing really.

it is already accepted that the macrocosms are 2-C, they have 6 universal spacetimes each.

Any way you could link this to this thread so that anyone can look at it? Also Putting everything in your original post would also be good.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

it is already accepted that the macrocosms are 2-C, they have 6 universal spacetimes each.

You can gain tier 2 from destroying subspaces that share a timeline with an over arching space, as long as the subspaces have significant size or contents. So this doesn’t answer my question.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

You can gain tier 2 from destroying subspaces that share a timeline with an over arching space, as long as the subspaces have significant size or contents. So this doesn’t answer my question.

It was accepted that the macrocosm has 5 space times if I recall, and it was accepted long before that that each universe in the timeline was a seperate space time

 

[TiltedFN]

You can gain tier 2 from destroying subspaces that share a timeline with an over arching space, as long as the subspaces have significant size or contents. So this doesn’t answer my question.

It has already been decided that all of the macrocosms have 6 universal constructs each having their own temporal dimensions each. And what you said isn't the context on why DB characters have tier 2. I can't find the exact thread at the moment, but this isn't what this crt is about.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It has already been decided that all of the macrocosms have 6 universal constructs each having their own temporal dimensions each. And what you said isn't the context on why DB characters have tier 2. I can't find the exact thread at the moment, but this isn't what this crt is about.

This thread is claiming that the structures are all parallel to each other, so it would help to see the evidence that they are temporarily separated not just spatially.

 

[TiltedFN]

This thread is claiming that the structures are all parallel to each other, so it would help to see the evidence that they are temporarily separated not just spatially.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-cosmology-update.153722/ heres one of them.

 

[Stryker861]

somehow mfs still countine to comment making it harder for staff to eval

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-cosmology-update.153722/ heres one of them.

There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of separate timelines.

If all the universes are part of the same timeline, then the neutral space is just another macrocosm.

 

[TiltedFN]

There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of separate timelines.

If all the universes are part of the same timeline, then the neutral space is just another macrocosm.

Dude, there is more crts about this, it has been accepted already with mountains of evidence, this is derailing. All the universes do have separate timelines. I'm not debating this here. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheGodOfICE777/Toeiverse_Cosmology_Blog heres another blog.

 

[TiltedFN]

Gonna reach 6 pages smh