Loid Forger vs Arthur Morgan - Spies and Cowboys

[Stillwinston]

I could look at it how much? Am thinking an hour or 30 minutes

 

[SunDaGamer]

Starting the fight with no line of sight in NYC gives Loid a very big advantage over Arthur. Eagle Eye's feats are seeing trails left by animals, that's not gonna overcome Loid's stealth when Loid doesn't leave behind traces like that and when he does, it's to set up a trap and Loid is more than capable of coming up with traps on the fly in a place like NYC plus Arthur has no way of getting around Loid's Enhanced Senses picking up on him. His Analytical Prediction can let him dodge a sniper that he can't even see and then when he can see someone's hand movements it's even easier for him to dodge and he can keep that up while being fired at from 3 different sources.

Arthur's only wincon is to catch Loid in his direct line of sight before Loid does the same so that he can use Dead Eye's speed amp to headshot Loid quicker which I don't see happening.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

From what I read and seen with Loid it seems that he has the advantages to beat Arthur due to Loid's stealth and trap plans that would make Morgan think he is tracking Loid but led into a trap.

Also his quick reactions allowing him to dodge Arthur Morgan's shoots and by then Loid would put a bullet or few in Morgan. Making Loid the winner.

 

[Baken384]

Yeah, I don't see any good feats or scans for how potent Eagle Eye is, the best thing I see is on Youtube, we are able to see the basics of the ability (Aka the prints left by animals mentioned by SunDaGamer)

I need to see feats of Arthur being able to spot dudes on par with the Stealth skills of Twilight.
Twilight was able to perfectly disguise himself as a professor and blend in, disguise himself as a Foreign Minister, a convincing disguise of Edgar to the point the guy gave him the sacred files, a convincing disguise of the traitor Wheeler (Only got caught because they didn't have knowledge of the code, yet was still praised for his ability to disguise himself as Wheeler), disguise himself as someone part of the swat team (Mind you this was Loid rushing back to see if Anya was okay), changing his appearance to match a Woman in order to act as a practice date for Franky, Loid's week having him go through various disguises to enter meetings or disguising as a program director and so much more.
The fact that they start no line of sight, Loid will change into a disguise and Arthur has no way to detect where he is and no way in hell Loid will leave a trace behind, guy can sense something bad is gonna happen and he still won't know where it comes from, he might as well be similar to Elliot and Gretchen from Breaking Bad, not knowing that there will be an assassin to hunt them down while they live their lives (Obviously Walt was trolling)

Also I don't see an AP value in Arthur's profile so i assume baseline 9-B for Arthur (15 KJ) vs Loid's 6694 KJ, this is literally a one shot for Loid, all he needs is to stealth him and land one chop to the back and its toast.

Twilight was able to set up traps without the SSS even spotting it and is willing to use anything to his advantage such as in the first chapter, Twilight was able to set up a trap using the items in the room to take down a group of armed men and as stated above, Twilight won't leave a single track for Arthur to even catch unless he wants to in order to lure him into a trap/sneak attack, hell even Loid already has a knack for setting up traps as a kid

 

[Baken384]

I could look at it how much? Am thinking an hour or 30 minutes

Honestly now that i think about it, never mind. Just 10 seconds of Prep Time is already enough to turn this favor into Loid completely. All he needs to know is Arthur has that Dead Eye and Eagle Eye ability and Arthur is literally toast, Twilight will just think up of a plan to counter that and its done deal.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Arthur profile is horrendus so I guess I will be voting for Loid

 

[Vzearr]

I didn't think Loid would make a comeback lol. Crazy...

 

[Dalesean027]

Well Eagle eyes was being wanked like dude had spidey sense, Arthur never had any insane feats with it to let him remotely be able to operate and find loid like this in any capacity.

Also uh Loid also should have a much higher skill ceiling than the man

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay well if prep time won't be needed then I guess we carry on as normal? Loid would at the very least know what his opponent looks like and is in the area due to SBA last I checked.

 

[Baken384]

Okay well if prep time won't be needed then I guess we carry on as normal? Loid would at the very least know what his opponent looks like and is in the area due to SBA last I checked.

Yeah and so does Arthur but how will he now know which disguise Loid will use? He can literally look like any citizen from new york to blend in or to get close without him even noticing.
Plus Arthur Morgan literally dresses up as a cowboy, he is gonna stick out like a sore thumb and Loid is easily gonna find him because of that.

 

[Stillwinston]

Last I checked no one else is around in new york due to sba. Still Loid could dip into a clothes shop and make a disguise in less than 5 minutes or smth

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

First impression of Arthur, at least for me, he could make the fight end quick with death eyes

But looks like all of that was more because of exaggeration, yeah imma go with Loid FRA

 

[Baken384]

Loid could dip into a clothes shop and make a disguise in less than 5 minutes or smth

He doesn't even need 5 minutes since he is like a quick change master.
Either way if that's the knowledge he starts with then he will literally think of a plan based on the information he has to assassinate Arthur with his Twilight mode

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay I've glanced through the thread and updated the votes idk if I got it all though.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Enhanced senses aren't going to help when Loid is completely out of sight and has stealth mastery.

Enhanced senses will absolutely help Arthur here.

He's been able to kill a Cougar (Cougars, who are absolute masters of stealth, who despite having a white coat, was never caught and killed several people, even the dude Arthur was with) in a very dark cave all by himself

Starting the fight with no line of sight in NYC gives Loid a very big advantage over Arthur. Eagle Eye's feats are seeing trails left by animals, that's not gonna overcome Loid's stealth when Loid doesn't leave behind traces like that and when he does, it's to set up a trap and Loid is more than capable of coming up with traps on the fly in a place like NYC

Eagle Eye has been able to spot traps, Secret doors etc. and even if Arthur is caught in one he's been able to instantly and instinctively activate Deadeye. So even if Loid lands a trap Arthur still has the opportunity to kill him.
Also Arthur can absolutely track someone with no line of sight and visible tracks. 55:38. It's John Marston in that gameplay clip, but John and Arthur are virtually identical.


I also don't really get the disguise thing, are there any people in the area where the fight takes place for Loid to disguise himself as in the first place?

Also I don't see an AP value in Arthur's profile so i assume baseline 9-B for Arthur (15 KJ) vs Loid's 6694 KJ, this is literally a one shot for Loid, all he needs is to stealth him and land one chop to the back and its toast.

Not sure on the value, but Arthur scales to his dynamite sticks that can blow off limbs and blow up steel doors. His firearms all do the same, even the weakest ones, but yeah I'm sure Loid has the AP advantage still.

His Analytical Prediction can let him dodge a sniper that he can't even see and then when he can see someone's hand movements it's even easier for him to dodge and he can keep that up while being fired at from 3 different sources.

Impressive feat indeed, but that Sniper wasn't slowing his perception of time and literally pinpointing his vitals. Loid dosent resist this and letting Arthur even be in the same room with Firearms would be stupid for this very reason.



Also, Arthur has Fire and poison based weapons to use on Loid which Loid dosent seem to resist viewing his profile

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Could you show me the scene ?

Btw the scene Zenkai is talking bout is the mission "Fleeting Joy"
3:40

 

[Baken384]

Enhanced senses will absolutely help Arthur here.

He's been able to kill a Cougar (Cougars, who are absolute masters of stealth, who despite having a white coat, was never caught and killed several people, even the dude Arthur was with) in a very dark cave all by himself

Loid has his own Enhanced Senses to booth such as him being able to detect being watched by various examiners, being able to pinpoint their location, detect various small listening devices in a cruise ship, and slightly out of place objects which allowed him to deduce what was going on.
That is just stacked on top of Loid's ability to stealth such as being able to infiltrate the Imperial Scholar Mixer that has security reserved for political leaders to infiltrating terrorist groups, if Operation Strix wasn't about establishing a contact with the target, Loid would have considered assassinating Demond, a chairman of the national unity party so I expect his Security to be tight and defended by the State Security Service.
For every time Arthur can potentially find a clue about Loid (Which will be quite difficult since Loid is essentially a stealth master), Loid would be able to eventually detect that he is being followed and would come up with a plan to escape or counter attack, this is the same guy who thought up of like 862 date plans within a single night plus with a arena like New York City, there will be plenty of plans Loid can think of with how open and vast the city is.

Eagle Eye has been able to spot traps, Secret doors etc. and even if Arthur is caught in one he's been able to instantly and instinctively activate Deadeye. So even if Loid lands a trap Arthur still has the opportunity to kill him.
Also Arthur can absolutely track someone with no line of sight and visible tracks. 55:38. It's John Marston in that gameplay clip, but John and Arthur are virtually identical.


I also don't really get the disguise thing, are there any people in the area where the fight takes place for Loid to disguise himself as in the first place?

When i looked at the clip, Arthur looks like he was able to do this in the first place via tracking and focusing on Horse Tracks, which I doubt Loid would even leave behind something that big in the first place unless he wants to set up a trap for Arthur to fall for, he may lure him into a building and he set up a trap that could blind him with something (Like flour to blind the foes' vision like in Chapter 1) or he can do something similar to Yuri when he can camp one spot in a building or the sewers of NYC and wait for Arthur to show up and shoot him or knock him out with one swing of an object.

Either way if Loid ain't setting up traps, this man is absolutely sneaking on him with ease when he is able to infiltrate so much and perform plenty of stealth assignments as an agent. Also I only brought up the disguise thing since I thought there were people in the area, didn't know SBA means no people in it lol.

Not sure on the value, but Arthur scales to his dynamite sticks that can blow off limbs and blow up steel doors. His firearms all do the same, even the weakest ones, but yeah I'm sure Loid has the AP advantage still.

Until we see an exact ap value for Arthur, as it stands Loid is around 445x stronger than Arthur

The only issue here for Loid is literally dead eye but at this point I doubt it will be an issue if Loid can just stealth him to death. I'll give Loid 7/10 in this fight because his performance of stealth is simply off the charts compared to what Arthur has done nor encountered so far.

Btw the scene Zenkai is talking bout is the mission "Fleeting Joy"
3:40

Eh, its not that far off from Loid being able to escape being shot at by a group of armed dudes when they stole some jewelry, hell he even managed to fight and knock some guys out while landing headshots to guys behind him without even looking.

 

[Dalesean027]

He's been able to kill a Cougar (Cougars, who are absolute masters of stealth, who despite having a white coat, was never caught and killed several people, even the dude Arthur was with) in a very dark cave all by himself

Imma be real this isn't remotely comparable the man is definitely out stealthed here

Also Arthur can absolutely track someone with no line of sight and visible tracks. 55:38. It's John Marston in that gameplay clip, but John and Arthur are virtually identical

This also is pretty bad since he's not tracking a guys who leaves no trace at all let alone no presence nope its just a horse's hoove prints he's following that you can visually see even without eagle eye in the mud. I myself have done this kind of thing plenty in all my hours in Red Dead since the game has real tracks or blood going off enemies or animals that you can track, point being this wasn't some impossible scenario where he has no way of tracking him via conventional means and still found him, nope he literally just followed a horses tracks...not the stealthiest animal or a crazy feat.

Impressive feat indeed, but that Sniper wasn't slowing his perception of time and literally pinpointing his vitals. Loid dosent resist this and letting Arthur even be in the same room with Firearms would be stupid for this very reason.

Not at all how this works, arthur morgan enhancing his perception doesn't suddenly negate Loid's analytical prediction you have literally 0 grounds to make that claim and even then as I said that's simply not how that works at all especially not when you consider the fact that when using deadeye he is still focusing on where he wants to shoot before he actually does so, worst even if he is already holding his gun out since he aims it wherever he's focusing before he shoots. Alls to say this is stuff loid can take full advantage of given the scans baken has provided and there's nothing really Arthur morgan can do here realistically.

Put me down for Loid

 

[Robo432343]

Ends in sex.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Loid has his own Enhanced Senses to booth such as him being able to detect being watched by various examiners, being able to pinpoint their location, detect various small listening devices in a cruise ship, and slightly out of place objects which allowed him to deduce what was going on.
That is just stacked on top of Loid's ability to stealth such as being able to infiltrate the Imperial Scholar Mixer that has security reserved for political leaders to infiltrating terrorist groups,

Impressive feats for Loid's senses, Arthur's also infiltrated military bases, detected seemingly normal trap doors, snuck around and killed O'driscolls while pretty much near death, and was also feel he was walking into in ambush by former civil war spies.

Loid's ability to locate whoever is observing him would be a problem tbh, but Arthur still has Deadeye to fall back on, which Arthur will go into instinctively upon any danger

i looked at the clip, Arthur looks like he was able to do this in the first place via tracking and focusing on Horse Tracks, which I doubt Loid would even leave behind something that big in the first

This also is pretty bad since he's not tracking a guys who leaves no trace at all let alone no presence nope its just a horse's hoove prints he's following that you can visually see even without eagle eye in the mud

No bruh lmao them ain't horse tracks, you silly fools, that's just the in-game track indicator, the glowing light? What tracks in the mud are visible? I watched that clip again in 1080 and don't see any tracks in the mud outside of the indicator, it wouldn't even make sense as they had no horse at the camp.

Not at all how this works, arthur morgan enhancing his perception doesn't suddenly negate Loid's analytical prediction you have literally 0 grounds to make that claim and even then as I said that's simply not how that works at all especially not when you consider the fact that when using deadeye he is still focusing on where he wants to shoot before he actually does so, worst even if he is already holding his gun out since he aims it wherever he's focusing before he shoots. Alls to say this is stuff loid can take full advantage of given the scans baken has provided and there's nothing really Arthur morgan can do here realistically

Why dosent it work that way? He literally is viewing the world in slow motion to the point where he could perceive bullets from maxim guns in slow motion, Deadeye serves also as a speed amp and he doesn't have to focus when he turns it on lol there's plenty of times in the game where hes automatically aiming for the noggin like in the mission I mentioned earlier "fleeting Joy"
He doesn't always need focus. It's instinctual. He can enter Dead eye before even aiming the gun at anybody

Can Loid react to faster characters?

Until we see an exact ap value for Arthur, as it stands Loid is around 445x stronger than Arthur

Well Arthur's got poison and fire weapons to help with this

 

[SunDaGamer]

Why dosent it work that way? He literally is viewing the world in slow motion to the point where he could perceive bullets from maxim guns in slow motion, Deadeye serves also as a speed amp and he doesn't have to focus when he turns it on lol there's plenty of times in the game where hes automatically aiming for the noggin like in the mission I mentioned earlier "fleeting Joy"
He doesn't always need focus. It's instinctual. He can enter Dead eye before even aiming the gun at anybody

Can Loid react to faster characters?

Dead Eye doesn't speed amp his bullets does it? Loid can predict and dodge bullets from a sniper that he can't even see while also keeping track of 2 other shooters at the same time

 

[Stillwinston]

I also don't really get the disguise thing, are there any people in the area where the fight takes place for Loid to disguise himself as in the first place?

Iirc there is no one else in NYC besides the pair of them under SBA, Arthur would know what Loid looks like and is somewhere close. But considering Loid he could easily just make himself look totally different by dipping into a clothes store or do it on the spot

 

[Dalesean027]

No bruh lmao them ain't horse tracks, you silly fools, that's just the in-game track indicator, the glowing light? What tracks in the mud are visible? I watched that clip again in 1080 and don't see any tracks in the mud outside of the indicator, it wouldn't even make sense as they had no horse at the camp.

Buddy I watched it in 4k you can absolutely see the tracks, the light is just following them

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Bruh, no. I'm going blind then, cuz I watched the video again and didn't see any tracks, I even reloaded a save and did the bounty again and didn't see any. That's the indicator that looks like that when you track anything

 

[Dalesean027]

Bruh, no. I'm going blind then, cuz I watched the video again and didn't see any tracks, I even reloaded a save and did the bounty again and didn't see any. That's the indicator that looks like that when you track anything

 

[Baken384]

No bruh lmao them ain't horse tracks, you silly fools, that's just the in-game track indicator, the glowing light? What tracks in the mud are visible? I watched that clip again in 1080 and don't see any tracks in the mud outside of the indicator, it wouldn't even make sense as they had no horse at the camp.

Arthur was able to track the guys in the first place because a horse literally left a track for Arthur to focus on, without it he is in a dead end.

Loid isn't leaving a track for Arthur to find and if he does, it will just be a trap for Arthur to follow.
I'll say it again

For every time Arthur can potentially find a clue about Loid (Which will be quite difficult since Loid is essentially a stealth master), Loid would be able to eventually detect that he is being followed and would come up with a plan to escape or counter attack

The moment Loid hears footsteps, he can already infer what is going on and will make a plan to suit that situation.

Can Loid react to faster characters?

Yes, he managed to briefly keep up and dodge Drunk Yor's attacks and even dodged her slap.
Twilight doesn't do direct combat and through his skills, traps and firearms, he can even even the odds against Yor Forger who is like the absolute god in the verse.
IM STILL WAITING FOR THE CODE WHITE MOVIE JUST RELEASE ALREADY INTERNATIONALLY

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Aight I'll take the L lmaooo It was pretty hard to see them in the mud from that video, and I played it one more time and saw them in game, so my bad lol

Loid isn't leaving a track for Arthur to find and if he does, it will just be a trap for Arthur to follow.
I'll say it again

Arthur is capable of going off his guts and can tell when he's walking into a trap, like the earlier example of the mission "A short walk in a pretty town" where he senses an ambush by former spies.

He is capable of seeing through completely ordinary seeming objects like bookshelves, bricks in the wall, areas in the floor, and seeing them as trapdoors/hidden loot

So he should be capable of detecting traps with eagle eye.

The moment Loid hears footsteps, he can already infer what is going on and will make a plan to suit that situation.

Does Loid have enhanced hearing? Because Arthur can definitely move quiet enough. He's snuck on Military boats, around predators and other animals I'm sure have enhanced hearing.

Yes, he managed to briefly keep up and dodge Drunk Yor's attacks and even dodged her slap

Can Yor speed amp? Perception manip? And isnt Loid weaker than Yor and Yor being drunk not really her at her best? Wouldn't she be a little sloppy?

 

[Baken384]

Arthur is capable of going off his guts and can tell when he's walking into a trap, like the earlier example of the mission "A short walk in a pretty town" where he senses an ambush by former spies.
He is capable of seeing through completely ordinary seeming objects like bookshelves, bricks in the wall, areas in the floor, and seeing them as trapdoors/hidden loot

So he should be capable of detecting traps with eagle eye.

Yeah, and then his buddy gets shot. Someone like Loid who is essentially a sharpshooter will be able to take him down from a distance with one headshot, the moment Arthur senses something is wrong will be too late for him to react to one headshot coming from Twilight who is hiding somewhere.

The fact Loid's skills with firearms and traps in a fight could even out the odds with Yor who could sense people watching her, sense bloodlust/malice or being able to dodge stuff at the last moment or being able to sense people's presence should show how unpredictable Twilight when setting up his traps combined with his usage of firearms.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Twilight pulls Joseph Joestar levels of traps on Arthur so in my perspective so far, this will still be quite the tough fight for Arthur to avoid his traps.

Does Loid have enhanced hearing? Because Arthur can definitely move quiet enough. He's snuck on Military boats, around predators and other animals I'm sure have enhanced hearing.

Don't think that matters when Loid's enhanced awareness is pretty good as it is, being able to precisely find out that he was being followed by Franky and Anya within seconds even though they were walking in a city block with people in it and of course the feat mentioned above when he was entering Eden for the Entrance Exam, managed to pin point the locations of the examiners

Can Yor speed amp? Perception manip? And isnt Loid weaker than Yor and Yor being drunk not really her at her best? Wouldn't she be a little sloppy?

The main question was if Loid can react to characters faster than himself which is yes, and no, Yor doesn't have any speed amps.
Yor being drunk doesn't make her sloppy if anything she is likely to unleash her own full power subconsciously because Yor herself needs to be careful doing stuff like holding Anya's hand or else she might accidentally break her bones or some shit.

If i hadn't voted, Loid Fra 7/10, the only issue is the dead eye and unironically Arthur's only saving grace in this match, without it he is pretty much washed but with the amount of stealth feats Twilight has performed from infiltrating Governments to Terrorist Organizations to to national defense force to the black market and as a spy, Twilight is the type of person to avoid direct contact, Loid's skills will eventually triumph even if this can take a long time.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Yeah, and then his buddy gets shot. Someone like Loid who is essentially a sharpshooter will be able to take him down from a distance with one headshot, the moment Arthur senses something is wrong will be too late for him to react to one headshot coming from Twilight who is hiding somewhere

Yeah, he's nowhere near as skilled as Arthur, but Micah (white hat) another of Arthur's "Friends" killed the guy who shot sean and two other dudes Immediately after, and Arthurs better than him by miles.

In random events in game Arthur can fight off several ambushes, including one by a paramilitary out of nowhere with a maxim gun.

And Arthur will instinctively slow things down in a jam.

The fact Loid's skills with firearms and traps in a fight could even out the odds with Yor who could sense people watching her, sense bloodlust/malice or being able to dodge stuff at the last moment or being able to sense people's presence should show how unpredictable Twilight when setting up his traps combined with his usage of firearms.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Twilight pulls Joseph Joestar levels of traps on Arthur so in my perspective so far, this will still be quite the tough fight for Arthur to avoid his traps

He doesn't necessarily have to predict or dodge his traps, as Eagle eye gives him a clear visual of special objects and things like that. What type of traps does Loid usually have anyway?

The main question was if Loid can react to characters faster than himself which is yes, and no, Yor doesn't have any speed amps.
Yor being drunk doesn't make her sloppy if anything she is likely to unleash her own full power subconsciously because Yor herself needs to be careful doing stuff like holding Anya's hand or else she might accidentally break her bones or some shit

Then deadeye will be a massive problem for Twilight.

If i hadn't voted, Loid Fra 7/10, the only issue is the dead eye and unironically Arthur's only saving grace in this match, without it he is pretty much washed but with the amount of stealth feats Twilight has performed from infiltrating Governments to Terrorist Organizations to to national defense force to the black market and as a spy, Twilight is the type of person to avoid direct contact, Loid's skills will eventually triumph even if this can take a long time

Deadeye is absolutely Arthurs only saving grace along with eagle eye. If he didn't have that this would be a stomp.
Loid is stronger, more skilled, better equipped and a few other things.

But Deadeye is one of the most OP abilities a 9-B can have, and Arthur spams and can activate it instinctively.

Eagle eye will help locate Loid if he goes out of sight. He doesn't need to just track you down, in this state he can see glowing images of people and objects in even very dark areas and far away birds in the sky.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Voting for Loid. Loid outclasses in every category and we can't just ignore that, with the possible wincons Loid should win more match scenarios against Arthur. Although I understand that Deadeye pretty much negates Loid's advantages, its overly reliant on one ability that he may not neccessarily use in all scenarios even if its spammy.

 

[Baken384]

He doesn't necessarily have to predict or dodge his traps, as Eagle eye gives him a clear visual of special objects and things like that. What type of traps does Loid usually have anyway?

We don't see much of Twilight's trap usages other than Chapter 1 (When he used flour to blind enemies), During Twilight's youth when he was playing soldier with his friends and the traitor arc when he managed to set up a trap that trapped a person in a tree. (Also the explosives on the fountain, we don't exactly know how Loid even placed it there in the first place since the Manga made it look like didn't set up any traps prior to the meeting there.)
Although his usage of Traps is something regarded highly (Like in the traitor arc by the SSS) to the point the author made the mention that his skill with firearms and traps can even out the odds in a match against Yor Forger, who is like the omega god tier of the verse who has shown to be able to fight off multiple assassins at once, and could perception blitz Nightfall who could react to a speed of sound tennis ball serve.
So i assume that his traps he will deploy in a stealth battle will be pretty good.

Then deadeye will be a massive problem for Twilight.

Yeah it is if Twilight is the type of person to go on head to head combat, but good thing Twilight is a spy that avoids physical confrontation while having insane stealth and intelligence feats to boot for a pretty wholesome manga which makes Dead Eye a lesser problem.

Eagle eye will help locate Loid if he goes out of sight. He doesn't need to just track you down, in this state he can see glowing images of people and objects in even very dark areas and far away birds in the sky.

And Twilight's intelligence and enhanced senses/awareness will just help him sense that he is being followed, using his observation, analyzation, and adaptability skills to figure out another way to get out of his sight and use his stealth to get the best of him.
Arthur can be walking around to find Loid and Loid is just hiding somewhere in the area, keeping tabs on him and camping somewhere before shooting him while Arthur isn't even looking at all, or depending on the area in NYC, Loid can pull out a trap that can blind Arthur's vision like with the flour one from Chapter 1 and take him out in one swift punch.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Deadeye GG, voting Arthur Morgan.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

Throwing my hat in again...I feel like Deadeye won't do much since from what I have seen in story and lore stuff...its just being observant and noticing things since Arthur used it to track footprints and analyse stuff. But the whole "in this state he can see glowing images of people and objects in even very dark areas" is a gameplay thing since he never stated to have this ability in the story. As I recall its nothing like the Eagle Vision from Assassins Creed.

Loid would still win due to being much more skilled in planning, and also quick thinking as he processed a plan faster than 0.1 second. Also his disguises are good enough to fool Arthur, and his plan of planting traps that would be enough to trip up Arthur. As Baken said he was able to quickly find out he was followed in a town filled with people and even pin point various people from far away.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Throwing my hat in again...I feel like Deadeye won't do much since from what I have seen in story and lore stuff...it’s just being observant and noticing things since Arthur used it to track footprints and analyse stuff.

That’s Eagle Eye, not Deadeye.

Might I add the fact that Arthur has the uncanny ability to sense when something wrong is going to happen off intuition alone, an ambush by multiple gunman, despite to visible threat of danger present. A far inferior gunslinger in Micah Bell, who had no such intuition, should take out two people instantly the moment he was aware, so Arthur should heavily upscale this. Loid simply won’t get that chance to sneak up Arthur.

 

[BoastJr]

Loid's sizeable stealth feats, Ap advantage and H2H skills seems to be more reliable.

Baken's arguments does make sense for me after reading it a bunch of times.

Loid FRA for now

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

That’s Eagle Eye, not Deadeye.

Might I add the fact that Arthur has the uncanny ability to sense when something wrong is going to happen off intuition alone, an ambush by multiple gunman, despite to visible threat of danger present. A far inferior gunslinger in Micah Bell, who had no such intuition, should take out two people instantly the moment he was aware, so Arthur should heavily upscale this. Loid simply won’t get that chance to sneak up Arthur.

I mean Loid was able to track down and find Anya when she is trying to hide (Anya can read minds and Loid still is able to find her). Also Loid quickly caught on he was spied on with his own senses as he knew Anya and Franky were spying on him down the block within seconds. His sight would be enough to beat Arthur because remember in SPYxFAMILY he was able to notice a colorless, odorless gas, and the cruise ship has bugs everywhere. Also Loid could detect minor details such as objects that are slightly out of place and small symbols in a cluttered environment. Loid has honed his observation, analyzation and adaptability to a razor's edge.

So really in that regard Loid still beats Arthur in terms of tracking and sensing.

Also Loid would able to pick up Arthur due to him in his series was able to recognise a thief by his gait after he disguised his clothes and from his gaze alone he could identify targets. Loid aka Twilight is even able to infer the situation of a person by the sound of their footsteps as he would be able to notice how Arthur walks when he is trying to sneak up on him on the situation.

Then we get to stealth and disguises where Loid was a master at this and his ability to seamlessly pass off as other people with different body types and characteristics, such as a sumo wrestler in the Far East despite not possessing the girth required to be one, even down to their voices. Loid aka Twilight was able to use this ability for his missions (Though as long as he has enough intel on the individual, like watching old home videos of them, he can pull off a believable impersonation). Also he has a great skill in infiltrating places such as the Imperial Scholars Mixers, which possesses a level security that is normally reserved for meetings of party leadership, where if any other WISE agent had gone, they would be apprehended in five minutes (Note this series was set in the Cold War). Also Loid could even help others to disguise as well since he created costumes for Franky Franklin and Fiona Frost so they can pose as SSS agents, in one case even creating a male disguise for Fiona.

Plus Loid has experience of this stuff as he did it MANY times, as he infiltrated the world's most heinous terrorist organizations, governments, armies, and the black market. He possesses listening devices to secretly listen into conversations. He even swapped a painting with a counterfeit in seconds due to his skills of disguise and sleight of hand. Even when being chased, he could easily switch disguises to ward off pursuers.

In the series it was even stated that it isn’t normal for Twilight to leave clear footprints, unless he is leading someone into a trap which means he can trick Arthur into a trap and use the traps.

 

[Baken384]

Might I add the fact that Arthur has the uncanny ability to sense when something wrong is going to happen off intuition alone, an ambush by multiple gunman, despite to visible threat of danger present. A far inferior gunslinger in Micah Bell, who had no such intuition, should take out two people instantly the moment he was aware, so Arthur should heavily upscale this. Loid simply won’t get that chance to sneak up Arthur.

That is not good enough proof that Arthur is good enough to even spot Loid who can infiltrate Terrorist Organizations, Governments, and more.
Also they were like ambushed by multiple people who are like FODDERS at shooting, the moment Micah was made aware of the situation, his ally was already dead. Loid is quite literally a sharpshooter himself, being able to precisely shoot off the bomb vest strapped to a trained dog without even injuring it, or shoot the gun out of Yuri's hand or literally land headshots on three guys without even looking while fighting some guys as well. Also bringing up that Yor statement again, The author specifies not only his skill in traps but also his skill in firearms can even the odds with Yor Forger, literally being able to react to bullets with ease (The movie even furthers this point even more) and could dodge a spear at point blank range.

If Micah was the only guy walking around that town, he would have died because how the hell can he react to the gunners when he is already dead? If Arthur was the only guy walking around that town, his gut feeling can tell him something's wrong and he'd die because he won't be able to react to the gunners in the first place because there's no Sean there to get shot.
Same scenario applies here, Arthur can be walking around NYC and have this gut feeling and before he can even go guns blazing and somehow pinpoint where Loid is, Loid would have shot him in the head already and win.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

What's the current votes here so far?

And yeah i feel like Dead Eyes is a bit overrated here

 

[Dalesean027]

Im going for Loid on this one, having played as much RDR as I've played I personally feel Arthur is being very much overscaled here and simply doesn't compare to Twilight at all given the feats presented

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Okay i managed to updated the votes, if i'm right then it's 6 for Loid and 5 for Arthur, need two more for Loid and we can enter the Grace period