Loid Forger vs Arthur Morgan - Spies and Cowboys

[Stillwinston]

Thought about trying this and figured idk much about either verse so if nothing I can be impartial I guess

• Speed is equalised
• Fight takes place in New York
• Both start about 20 meters apart with no line of sight
• Neither have prep time but all their equipment
• SBA otherwise

Twilight: 7

Tacitus Kilgore: 10

Incon: 0

Loid Forger

Not fit to be a spy? No. The mistake was endangering that child in the first place. How did I not see that? Making a world where kids don't need to cry... That was the whole reason... I became a spy in the first place. Loid Forger's ideology as a spy Loid Forger is the main protagonist of the...

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Arthur Morgan

Arthur Morgan is a central character and the main protagonist of Red Dead Redemption II. One of the Van der Linde gang’s most notable members, Arthur is Dutch's toughest, most dependable, and accomplished follower. He is continuously ready to do whatever is necessary for a given circumstance to...

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[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump?

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Necro, but Deadeye GG?

 

[Stillwinston]

Well they don't start with line of sight so Arthur needs to find Loid first for it.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Analytical Prediction + Eagle Eye, Arthur wouldn't have a hard time with that.

But I see that Loid has similar techniques on his page so not sure how this would play out...

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah that's what intrigued me about the match and neither seeing the other at first gives them setup time, given that deadeye has Arthur doing self induced perception manip he could likely land shots on Loid. He does have bulletproof vests which idk if Arthur could pick up on though

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Bulletproof vests won't help with a bullet to the noggin tbf

 

[Stillwinston]

A headshot yes, though if Arthur went for a heart shot (Perhaps not as likely but still possible) I wouldn't put it past Loid surviving imo

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

My first vbw contribution in a long time only because im playing RDR again and watching Spy x Family. As a fan of both, I think Loid has the upper hand in stealth, H2H and general battle instincts, but I think Eagle Eye makes up for the gap in stealth and finding Loid. Ultimately it will come down to if Loid can catch Arthur and kill him before he dead eyes and blows his head off. I think a lot of people forget Dead Eye sees vitals, and can lock on multiple places in once, so even if the shots to the body don't kill loid due to bullet proof vests, he wont be able to survive headshots.

I think Arthur takes this 7 out of 10 times via his Eagle Eye equalizing the gap in stealth skills, and a few shots to the head via Dead Eyes locking, and it's not like a bulllet proof vest will completely nullify the damage Loid will take to the heart. Also to note (at full strength) he can spam Dead Eye a few times

Voting Arthur

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Thats 2 for Arthur.

And welcome back Zenkai

 

[Vzearr]

If both are the same speed and experts with guns then its simply a draw. Both can land a head shot at the same time.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Far as I know only one can slow their perception of time and can view weakpoints

 

[Vzearr]

Far as I know only one can slow their perception of time and can view weakpoints

The weak point on Loid is his head. It's a draw especially with equal speed, the chances Loid misses are low, the same goes for Morgan.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Arthur has 0 difficulty tagging that top, even without deadeye.

Loid has no answer to Perception manipulation

 

[Vzearr]

Arthur has 0 difficulty tagging that top, even without deadeye.

Loid has no answer to Perception manipulation

They are still roughly the same speed, headshots on both ends.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

They are still roughly the same speed, headshots on both ends.

Speed is equal in base ofc, but Deadeye is also a speed amp. So Arthur would still be able to easily perceive loid in slow motion

 

[Vzearr]

They both start with no line of sight. Loid takes this with his Intelligence.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

In which Arthur has experience with, being a master hunter and all. And enhanced senses like eagle eye which will allow him to track Loid pretty easy

 

[Vzearr]

In which Arthur has experience with, being a master hunter and all. And enhanced senses like eagle eye which will allow him to track Loid pretty easy

Enhanced senses aren't going to help when Loid is completely out of sight and has stealth mastery.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

You just completely ignored my whole argument lol. Their speeds being equalized is bad for Loid, since with Dead Eye spam Arthur has the advantage. Loids superior stealth mastery is completely negated by Eagle Eye, if not just equalized. Both find each other, Arthur locks onto both his heart and his head, multiples shots to the head and Loid is dead. Arthur wins convincingly.

 

[Vzearr]

Haven't finished rdr2, if Arthur can actually sense constantly where Loid is the this is a stomp matchup tbh. Loid would have no wincons.

 

[CryptonBestDbFan]

I think arthur morgan will win because of the analytical prediction and dead eye.

 

[Harith0cell]

Arthur fra

 

[Stillwinston]

I'll need to take a look at rdr2 but hasn't Arthur been jumped from behind in the game? Coulda sworn smth like that happened in it

 

[Vzearr]

I'll need to take a look at rdr2 but hasn't Arthur been jumped from behind in the game? Coulda sworn smth like that happened in it

Yup, he got jumped on by an O'Driscoll boy iirc, came from behind, which is why I'm confused as to why Arthur wouldn't just get shot from behind or where he's not looking, also, isn't dead eye a temporary amp ?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'll need to take a look at rdr2 but hasn't Arthur been jumped from behind in the game? Coulda sworn smth like that happened in it

Yup, he got jumped on by an O'Driscoll boy iirc, came from behind, which is why I'm confused as to why Arthur wouldn't just get shot from behind or where he's not looking, also, isn't dead eye a temporary amp ?

Irrelevant. He got jumped two times and a possible third that I cant remember too well

The first time was by the o'driscoll at the very start of the game BEFORE he learned Eagle Eye and Dead Eye was not usable as mechanic. So he didn't have what would counter Loid's stealth

The second time was in a capture mission where he was kicking a door open, but not only was Arthur rushing at that point in time which he wouldn't be doing here, but there were tons of enemies that he had to look out for and be weary off. Loid is just one man.

This fight is Arthur in his prime unless specified, a prime Arthur prepares ahead of time, and Dead Eye is a amp that lasts enough to pinpoint multiple places on the body and multiple places on the head and can be spammed with a full dead eye bar. Loid isn't winning this. And no, it isn't a stomp since Loid has advantages in certain fields such as H2H and battle IQ

Edit: At other times, Dead Eye was activated almost near passively, as when he was on the ground about to get shot, Dead Eye was instantly activated without the player having to do anything. If he is in danger Dead Eye can activate by itself.

 

[Vzearr]

This fight is Arthur in his prime unless specified, a prime Arthur prepares ahead of time

Neither have prep, its been specified.

and Dead Eye is a amp that lasts enough to pinpoint multiple places on the body and multiple places on the head and can be spammed with a full dead eye bar. Loid isn't winning this. And no, it isn't a stomp since Loid has advantages in certain fields such as H2H and battle IQ

But how is he going to use dead eye when Loid could very well be anywhere.

he second time was in a capture mission where he was kicking a door open, but not only was Arthur rushing at that point in time which he wouldn't be doing here, but there were tons of enemies that he had to look out for and be weary off. Loid is just one man.

Even if he was rushing, he shouldn't have been surprised. You can't be surprised by something if you know its already there.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Neither have prep, its been specified.

I never said its a condition, I just pointed out Arthur is good with prep to showcase that in a general situation against one man he isn't going to rush in like an idiot

But how is he going to use dead eye when Loid could very well be anywhere.

Once again you are ignoring all my other points behind this. Both are away from each other, not in line of sight. Loid has the inital advantage, but his Stealth isn't a special ability, it's just general skill. Arthur's Eagle Eye negates Loid's initial advantage so at best for Arthur he finds him first since Eagle Eye is more reliable than Loid's general stealth, or at best it equalizes the playing field to where they probably come within each others line of sight. When they find each other, Dead Eye completelyt "blitzes" loid.

Even if he was rushing, he shouldn't have been surprised. You can't be surprised by something if you know its already there.

.... I literally said in that situation there were MULTIPLE ENEMIES WITH GUNS SHOOTING FROM ALL DIRECTIONS. He is not fighting many armed men here. He is fighting one guy. Do you really want to get into the times Loid has been caught off guard by randoms and only survived because of Anya?

 

[Vzearr]

I never said its a condition, I just pointed out Arthur is good with prep to showcase that in a general situation against one man he isn't going to rush in like an idiot

Never said he would.

Once again you are ignoring all my other points behind this. Both are away from each other, not in line of sight. Loid has the inital advantage, but his Stealth isn't a special ability, it's just general skill. Arthur's Eagle Eye negates Loid's initial advantage so at best for Arthur he finds him first since Eagle Eye is more reliable than Loid's general stealth, or at best it equalizes the playing field to where they probably come within each others line of sight. When they find each other, Dead Eye completelyt "blitzes" loid.

I don't think you understand though, Arthur wont see Loid, they don't even start in each others line of view. Loid won't get seen because his stealth mastery

.... I literally said in that situation there were MULTIPLE ENEMIES WITH GUNS SHOOTING FROM ALL DIRECTIONS.

Could you show me the scene ?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I don't think you understand though, Arthur wont see Loid, they don't even start in each others line of view. Loid won't get seen because his stealth mastery

Respectfully man, you are not reading my point at all. Eagle Eye will find Loid. I dont know why you are ignoring this. It ultimately equalizes the gap in stealth, or puts it in Arthurs victory, and then puts the fight into a who draws first/attacks first scenario in which Arthur has the advantage because of Dead Eye being A) Spammable at full capacity and B) Locks onto both his body and head- Loid is not surviving his head being blown up by multiple rounds.

I'm not going to waste time looking for the scene lol, i'm just saying what happened. They were infiltrating a camp, they got everyone, Arthur was still weary and got caught off guard, and in no way does that imply Loid will be able to do the same. Loid literally has to find Arthur as well, and the "gap" in their stealth is honestly not that huge that he will be able to catch arthur. But even then, what is he going to do? Dead Eye has been activated by Arthur himself (not the player controlling him) when he is in danger.

Also, why are we questioning Arthur's capabilities alone? What about the times Loid has gotten caught off guard? The times where he would have died if not for Anya. Both have had their fair share amount of times of being saved by others. The only difference here is Arthur has an ability to overcome the gap in H2H with his Dead Eye.

 

[Vzearr]

Respectfully man, you are not reading my point at all. Eagle Eye will find Loid. I dont know why you are ignoring this. It ultimately equalizes the gap in stealth, or puts it in Arthurs victory, and then puts the fight into a who draws first/attacks first scenario in which Arthur has the advantage because of Dead Eye being A) Spammable at full capacity and B) Locks onto both his body and head- Loid is not surviving his head being blown up by multiple rounds.

I'm not going to waste time looking for the scene lol, i'm just saying what happened. They were infiltrating a camp, they got everyone, Arthur was still weary and got caught off guard, and in no way does that imply Loid will be able to do the same

Also, why are we questioning Arthur's capabilities alone? What about the times Loid has gotten caught off guard? The times where he would have died if not for Anya. Both have had their fair share amount of times of being saved by others. The only difference here is Arthur has an ability to overcome the gap in H2H with his Dead Eye.

If eagle eye will find Loid then Loid simply has no win cons and its a stomp matchup.

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay so assuming Arthur stomps how about Loid vs this guy?

Frank West

Frank West is a freelance photojournalist who has been quite active in his career, covering several events, including wars. Despite his profession, he's fairly strong, being a skilled wrestler. He has an unusually deep sense of determination to find the next big story, taking big risks in order...

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[Zenkaibattery1]

It isn't a stomp since there's aspects that Loid has advantages in that do play a role in this fight, it's just that Arthur more likely than not can counter it with Dead Eye

 

[Vzearr]

It isn't a stomp since there's aspects that Loid has advantages in that do play a role in this fight, it's just that Arthur more likely than not can counter it with Dead Eye

It is clearly a stomp if all his advantages get erased by dead eye.

 

[Baken384]

Give Loid prep