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Sooo I'm no sure what the full arguments are for either side, just jumping into this match
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From what I've seen Arthur's win con is using deadeye and something that can take Loid out. Loid on his end has an AP advantage by apparently 400x at least. I call into question Arthur's guns being able to do anything against a gap that wide though fire manip and explosives would likely work. Loid's win con is one shotting with practically anything, being able to come up with a plan far quicker and making disguisesSooo I'm no sure what the full arguments are for either side, just jumping into this match
Yet from what I've seen of your arguments you yourself haven't explained how Loid magically counters Dead-Eye. He's never dealt with anything remotely similar to Dead-Eye.Like how this was just flipped to try and turn it to dead eye never being addressed, anyways this is just moot.
Not really, wild life stealth are amongst some of the best. It's nature, much more brutal and requires much more adaptation than life as a human. Big Cats and other stealthy predators have gotten the drop on seasoned outdoorsman who've spent their life in the woods.Also yall are reallh really overstimating regular wildlife stealth feats
The bullets do get faster, maybe if you read the profile you'd see its accepted as such so keep talking shit anime man.That's literally what he said and the bullet's don't lock on.
Never said he has homing attacks, but they're similar. You can simply focus on a shot to make it follow your enemy buddy.Bro doesn't have homing attack the dude is simply focusing where he wants to shoot hence this
Loid isn't dodging shotgun buck shot, explosive rounds or express rounds due to them traveling faster than average bullets while having AoE. Dealsean is inherently wrong when it comes to Dead-Eye not Amping his attack speed, it is literally accepted as such.Also just realized, with Dead Eye the bullets won't become any faster, and Loid will still be Supersonic even after speed equalized? Wouldn't he just dodge the bullets with his IR?
I mean I don't really see how Arthur has any advantage or wincon left
Loid's has never dealt with anything like Dead-Eye with his Analytical Prediction so that's a moot point. Arthur himself also has Analytical Prediction and has fought people with that ability before.Not at all how this works, arthur morgan enhancing his perception doesn't suddenly negate Loid's analytical prediction you have literally 0 grounds to make that claim.
This is also wrong, Dead-Eye is an auto target abilities with higher levels.and even then as I said that's simply not how that works at all especially not when you consider the fact that when using deadeye he is still focusing on where he wants to shoot before he actually does so,
Read above.worst even if he is already holding his gun out since he aims it wherever he's focusing before he shoots.
Yeah no, I don't agree with you there in the slightest. Your argument works by saying Arthur doesn't have a speed amp or that he needs to aim, both of which Dead-Eye is accepted as a speed amp and auto targeting.Alls to say this is stuff loid can take full advantage of given the scans baken has provided and there's nothing really Arthur morgan can do here realistically.
That's just AP which Loid can't really capitalize on. Loid's durability still gets shot through with guns like the Volcanic Pistol, Express and Explosive rounds or TNT.I mean the AP gap is absolutely massive, of it really is 400x... But if everything Gin is saying about the Dead Eye stuff is reliable and can work with things that can harm Loid, while also letting Authur avoid attacks, then I'd say the Cowboy wins.
What reason in particular? Definitely curious as to why Loid is getting more FRA's whenever most of his reasoning has been addressed.I'll vote for Loid FRA.
Ah **** not me always thinking AP and durability end up correlating. But, why can't the AP be capitalized upon?That's just AP which Loid can't really capitalize on. Loid's durability still gets shot through with guns like the Volcanic Pistol, Express and Explosive rounds or TNT.
He'd need to get in close, which is a terrible idea given Dead-Eye + Shotgun combo with explosive rounds. He'd need to charge Arthur meanwhile Arthur would use dead eye to make Loid seem frozen in time before pumping him with lead.Ah **** not me always thinking AP and durability end up correlating. But, why can't the AP be capitalized upon?
So what u are basically saying is that Arthur starts every fight with Eagle Eye(to negate stealth advantage) and Dead Eye(perception and speed amp) active simultaneously and he always uses a shotgun or explosive rounds in the start of a fight and he can shoot the vital points of his opponent regardless of if the character is 20 meters away and out of his line of sight in the middle of NYC? Also he spams dynamites too?Loid isn't dodging shotgun buck shot, explosive rounds or express rounds due to them traveling faster than average bullets while having AoE. Dealsean is inherently wrong when it comes to Dead-Eye not Amping his attack speed, it is literally accepted as such.
He'll do what he needs to, these are things he's done in the past before. Bombing the **** out of Odriscol camps, spamming Dead Eye and Eagle Eye. These are his most prominent abilities that he uses the most in character. Arthur can't see him? He uses Eagle Eye. Once he sees him he'll quickly activate Dead Eye as per usual. After learning it Arthur every much starts with it, even some missions it even happens automatically.So what u are basically saying is that Arthur starts every fight with Eagle Eye(to negate stealth advantage) and Dead Eye(perception and speed amp) active simultaneously and he always uses a shotgun or explosive rounds in the start of a fight and he can shoot the vital points of his opponent regardless of if the character is 20 meters away and out of his line of sight in the middle of NYC? Also he spams dynamites too?
The AP advantage is moot since Loid can't get to him before Arthur places multiple express or Explosive rounds in his eyes with dead eye.And all this for a few seconds is enough to win against a character who has the AP
durability is useless whenever Arthur has ammunition and weapons that can one shot him. He isn't surviving tnt, Explosive rounds, fire bombs, or being shot in his vitals such as the eyes which Dead-Eye automatically targets.and durability advantage.
Went over this.strength advantage
Loid only has the skill advantage in h2h which won't matter due to the aforementioned reasons. Also no, Loid is absolutely not a better marksman than Arthur. Loid isnt nearly as experienced with firearms as Arthur who's been using them since he was born, can copy abilities such as Dead Eye after only seeing them once and overall has been into vastly more fights than Loid. He's a spy first and foremost, not a combat specialist.skill advantage, better marksman, better intelligence feats.
Agreed there but Arthur has counters.a better strategist and tactician, arguably better stealth feats than anything Arthur has dealt with.
Scans please because this is cap, Loid has never dealt with anything like Eagle Eye.senses and awareness that are enough to let him know he is being targeted
AoE. Loid is not avoiding blasts from TnT, Dead-Eye shots, Explosive rounds with AoE and Arthur can limit Loid's room to dodge via fire cocktails to drive him out. After that all it takes is one Dead-Eye in which Arthur will be viewing Loid as completely stagnant and fire multiple rounds where Loid can dodge, assuming Loid even has a way around Dead-Eye's auto target of the vitals such as the head, eyes, lungs all while Arthur's looking at him as if Loid were a snail.and enough distance between them and speed to dodge projectiles from the above mentioned weapons?
Ironic huh.I don't know about u but this feels like a huge stretch.
He'll do what he needs to, these are things he's done in the past before. Bombing the **** out of Odriscol camps, spamming Dead Eye and Eagle Eye. These are his most prominent abilities that he uses the most in character. Arthur can't see him? He uses Eagle Eye. Once he sees him he'll quickly activate Dead Eye as per usual. After learning it Arthur every much starts with it, even some missions it even happens automatically.
Conveniently ignoring this and the time limit. I see. So he can't do anything without Dead Eye and gets annihilated once time runs out, ok cool.senses and awareness that are enough to let him know he is being targeted and enough distance between them and speed to dodge projectiles from the above mentioned weapons?
Arthur has better feats than when Loid was just playing around? Wow, never knew. Could u show me his feats?Loid is absolutely not a better marksman than Arthur. Loid isnt nearly as experienced with firearms as Arthur who's been using them since he was born, sva
I didnt ignore it, matter of fact i literally asked you for evidence of Loid ever using stealth mastery on something like Eagle Eye. Both of which lasts 15 seconds, which Arthur can recharge via items.Conveniently ignoring this and the time limit.
Read above.I see. So he can't do anything without Dead Eye and gets annihilated once time runs out, ok cool.
First of all great job linking shit to YouTube videos that aren't available. Secondly yes, as I've went over above. Loid hasn't spent even a fraction of time that Arthur has actually fighting, copying abilities that only the most skilled can obtain with decades of experience after seeing them used once, said ability allows him to do something Loid cannot via sheer skill, scales to other prodigies, takes out the most skilled gunslinger in his verse, absolutely dogging the military and police on several occasions, fighting against armies of armed men on various occasions, etc.
Yet from what I've seen of your arguments you yourself haven't explained how Loid magically counters Dead-Eye. He's never dealt with anything remotely similar to Dead-Eye
Loid doesn't leave behind traces like that and when he does, it's to set up a trap and Loid is more than capable of coming up with traps on the fly in a place like NYC plus Arthur has no way of getting around Loid's Enhanced Senses picking up on him. His Analytical Prediction can let him dodge a sniper that he can't even see and then when he can see someone's hand movements it's even easier for him to dodge and he can keep that up while being fired at from 3 different sources.
Not at all how this works, arthur morgan enhancing his perception doesn't suddenly negate Loid's analytical prediction you have literally 0 grounds to make that claim and even then as I said that's simply not how that works at all especially not when you consider the fact that when using deadeye he is still focusing on where he wants to shoot before he actually does so, worst even if he is already holding his gun out since he aims it wherever he's focusing before he shoots. Alls to say this is stuff loid can take full advantage of given the scans baken has provided and there's nothing really Arthur morgan can do here realistically.
So weird anyways here's a 10 minute video where you clearly see dude aims wherever he markss before he shoots which would let act with his Analytical Prediction, I know its hard not confusing regular gameplay with how it actually works but essentially arthur is just choosing where he's going to shoot, the bullets themselves aren't locked on, this man doesn't have homing attack.This is also wrong, Dead-Eye is an auto target abilities with higher levels.
Read above.
Nothing here says the bullets go faster and frankly that's a blatant lie cope ans seethe sirThe bullets do get faster, maybe if you read the profile you'd see its accepted as such so keep talking shit anime man.
Speed Amplification and Perception Manipulation (Via Dead Eye, he can momentarily view enemies in slow motion while becoming faster himself. While in this state, he can pinpoint and lock onto vitals for precision hits)
You clearly don't know real stealth feats then, that's quite literally all this is telling me... you must think Arthur morgan can out stealth batman or solid snake too then.best. It's nature, much more brutal and requires much more adaptation than life as a human. Big Cats and other stealthy predators have gotten the drop on seasoned outdoorsman who've spent their life in the woods.
Anyways mootYeah, I don't see any good feats or scans for how potent Eagle Eye is, the best thing I see is on Youtube, we are able to see the basics of the ability (Aka the prints left by animals mentioned by SunDaGamer)
I need to see feats of Arthur being able to spot dudes on par with the Stealth skills of Twilight.
Twilight was able to perfectly disguise himself as a professor and blend in, disguise himself as a Foreign Minister, a convincing disguise of Edgar to the point the guy gave him the sacred files, a convincing disguise of the traitor Wheeler (Only got caught because they didn't have knowledge of the code, yet was still praised for his ability to disguise himself as Wheeler), disguise himself as someone part of the swat team (Mind you this was Loid rushing back to see if Anya was okay), changing his appearance to match a Woman in order to act as a practice date for Franky, Loid's week having him go through various disguises to enter meetings or disguising as a program director and so much more.
The fact that they start no line of sight, Loid will change into a disguise and Arthur has no way to detect where he is and no way in hell Loid will leave a trace behind, guy can sense something bad is gonna happen and he still won't know where it comes from, he might as well be similar to Elliot and Gretchen from Breaking Bad, not knowing that there will be an assassin to hunt them down while they live their lives (Obviously Walt was trolling)
Also I don't see an AP value in Arthur's profile so i assume baseline 9-B for Arthur (15 KJ) vs Loid's 6694 KJ, this is literally a one shot for Loid, all he needs is to stealth him and land one chop to the back and its toast.
Twilight was able to set up traps without the SSS even spotting it and is willing to use anything to his advantage such as in the first chapter, Twilight was able to set up a trap using the items in the room to take down a group of armed men and as stated above, Twilight won't leave a single track for Arthur to even catch unless he wants to in order to lure him into a trap/sneak attack, hell even Loid already has a knack for setting up traps as a kid
For one once again proving my point which is always fun to see he clearly aims and defines where he shoots which is an action loid can clearly use to his advantage with analytical predictions.Here's 10 minutes worth of shooting from Arthur. There's a lot more than just that in both Rdr1 and Rdr2, Arthur has the benefit of actual on screen feats and has much more feats in this regard than Loid
U mean Arthur has better feats than Loid who can head shot multiple guys behind his back while engaging in CQC on his front? Where are those feats? All I am seeing is standard gunslinging in the front, with his enhanched perception from Dead eye.Literally how is this remotely near what Arthur has done? Shooting a bunch of nobodies at a close range making it easier for him to aim?
My bad it was region locked to AsiaFirst of all great job linking shit to YouTube videos that aren't available.
And here's a 1 min video that shows all the abilities from each level of Dead-Eye, not just one.So weird anyways here's a 10 minute video where you clearly see dude aims wherever he markss before he shoots which would let act with his Analytical Prediction, I know its hard not confusing regular gameplay with how it actually works but essentially arthur is just choosing where he's going to shoot, the bullets themselves aren't locked on, this man doesn't have homing attack.
DaleSean I suggest you take a look at how difference caliber rounds actually work in real life. Express rounds are quite literally self fulfilling, they're faster and cause more damage than regular rounds. They're the upgraded version of High Velocity rounds, and Explosive rounds are the upgraded version of Express rounds.Nothing here says the bullets go faster and frankly that's a blatant lie cope ans seethe sir
Unlike you i've literally been hunting before. Its what us canook's are good at mate, but yeah no since you're apparently agent 47 and know so much about stealth then you can tell me what good stealth is.You clearly don't know real stealth feats then.
I never said that. You seriously need to grow the hell up buddy, now your just blatantly strawmaning for the sake of it. As a staff member it makes you look very much too immature for any position here.that's quite literally all this is telling me... you must think Arthur morgan can out stealth batman or solid snake too then.
Read above."Seasoned outdoorsmen" like be for real for a second..
10/10 argument. Strawmaning is all you got.Anyways moot
Nobody is proving your point you buttered crumpet.For one once again proving my point which is always fun to see he clearly aims and defines where he shoots which is an action loid can clearly use to his advantage with analytical predictions.
Hardly a lie, whenever you arent even explaining why Loid has better feats.Also blatant lie for the second part consider the sheer volume of feats baken has sent.
Yeah bullshit. Show me Loid slowing down his perception of time and copying shit others need years to master after seeing it done once.The other feats genuinely don't compare to anything else baken sent skillwise
He kicked a few of them and then shot two nobodies behind him. That pales in comparison to dogging the military and police on several occasions, copying Dead-Eye immediately, out skilling the most skill gunglingers of the verse and is the best quick drawer in the video games. Arthur has much better and many more gun feats than Loid, you can look up the literal hours worth of actual feats he has in comparison to Loid's two, one of which is absolutely shit. Shooting two rando's isn't impressive especially whenever it was notes as sloppy.U mean Arthur has better feats than Loid who can head shot multiple guys behind his back while engaging in CQC on his front?
Quick drawing IS a skill feat. He's outskilling people who've been doing this for years undefeated.Where are those feats? All I am seeing is standard gunslinging in the front, with his enhanched perception from Dead eye.
K.My bad it was region locked to Asia
Buddy he ain't personally speeding those up and while you're trying to make a point as silly as it is if you want me to act like a CGM here then I can and frankly the speed ratings for the verse are in complete shambles and are filled with blatant lies which I was planning to revise anyways and dipshit if they're both supersonic then it makes Arthurs use of these munitions at any range null and void when if even at 2m range loid can move 1m before Arthur's fastest weapon can move 2. That's point blank range damn near so you're already cooked with this and the guns are void in this fight.DaleSean I suggest you take a look at how difference caliber rounds actually work in real life. Express rounds are quite literally self fulfilling, they're faster and cause more damage than regular rounds. They're the upgraded version of High Velocity rounds, and Explosive rounds are the upgraded version of Express rounds.
You're a calculation team member so quite frankly it's speaking magnitudes that you couldn't understand that difference bullets have difference muscle Velocity. Ultimately i suggest you actually take your own advice there, "cope and seethe sir."
Most certainly didDon't put words in my mouth, I never said he did. I said he has similar methods, big difference.
Great history lesson doesn't mean shit to stealth do good you develop an actual supernature ability to sense peopleUnlike you i've literally been hunting before. Its what us canook's are good at mate, but yeah no since you're apparently agent 47 and know so much about stealth then you can tell me what good stealth is.
Thanks10/10 argument.
"No one's proving your point"Nobody is proving your point you buttered crumpet
I never said he was? Again reading comprehension clearly ain't ya thing. I said the bullets will travel faster, which is true.Buddy he ain't personally speeding those up.
Cool, then do it. I don't care much for words.and while you're trying to make a point as silly as it is if you want me to act like a CGM here then I can and frankly the speed ratings for the verse are in complete shambles and are filled with blatant lies which I was planning to revise anyways.
First of all, calm the **** down. Your out here calling people dipshits getting emotional for no damn reason. And no not really, the speed is equalized between them not attack speed.and dipshit if they're both supersonic then it makes Arthurs use of these munitions at any range null and void when if even at 2m range loid can move 1m before Arthur's fastest weapon can move 2.
Which makes shit worse for Loid given Arthur's AoE.That's point blank range damn near so you're already cooked with this and the guns are void in this fight.
Literally did not but whatever.Most certainly did
Loid's senses arent supernatural lmfao. He isnt Agent 47 dawg.Great history lesson doesn't mean shit to stealth do good you develop an actual supernature ability to sense people
Bro uses so many emoji's got me thinking he's like 12.Thanks
Nah there's just not much to be said since anyone who cares to actually read what anyone has said before from the replies I bumled clearly see the man is spitting straight bsdale's messages are getting shorter and shorter each time that means gin is winning this debate according to my calculations
Geez I wonder how he got Accelerated development and photographic memory, or how he instantly learned sumo wrestling at the professional level.Yeah bullshit. Show me Loid slowing down his perception of time and copying shit others need years to master after seeing it done once.
Guess what their attack speed is supersonic and they're both equalized to supersonic and I easily explained it to ya as a CGM don't fall behind now, this one is simple.And no not really, the speed is equalized between them not attack speed.
Eh Loid outstats and still the same speed problem persist at supersonic speeds they can both get away from standard shotgun shells at point blank range or dynamite before it blowsWhich makes shit worse for Loid given Arthur's AoE
Baken literally has sent several scans of loid sensing others presence but okayLoid's senses arent supernatural lmfao. He isnt Agent 47 dawg.
Eh I'm pretty chill. This boy just silly@Dalesean027 Hi. You. Yes, you.
Chill. It ain't that serious.
That is all. I have no stake in this matchup
Your responses are far from the best though. Things need to be more civil, aight?Eh I'm pretty chill. This boy just silly
Nah I'll always have no qualms calling bs how I see it and frankly if this level of opposition and silly jabs is report worthy then half of the wiki would be under by now, I can tone it down a bit but review yourself and make your own decisionsYour responses are far from the best though. Things need to be more civil, aight?
wtf i have never seen u act like this beforeNah I'll always have no qualms calling bs how I see it and frankly if this level of opposition and silly jabs is report worthy then half of the wiki would be under by now, I can tone it down a bit but review yourself and make your own decisions
Eh not at all, this is clearly very silly and frankly I don't see how any of this is rvr worthy but ig that's just mewtf i have never seen u act like this before
bro is showing his true colors