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KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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The Logias in One Piece all have varying regenerations based on their innate Logia ability to transform into their varying element.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-logia-regenerationn-upgrade.33418/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/minor-sabo-addition.96830/

Those threads covered it.

High Mid - Kuzan (Ice)
Low-High - Crocodile (Sand), Monet (Snow), & Sakazuki (Magma)
Mid High - Smoker (Smoke), Caesar (Gas), & Sabo and Ace (Fire)
High - Enel (Lightning), Kizaru (Light).

The thing is that Marco, a mythical Zoan, is so similar to those logia fruits, yet he's only put at Mid.

Regeneration (At least Mid, as he regenerated his head after it was blown to bits by Kizaru)
My goal is to see if I can upgrade that any higher.

Marco vs Mera Mera

The Mera Mera no Mi allows the user to transform into fire. Fire falls under the regeneration for Mid-High,
Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from having all biology completely incinerated. This includes being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, vapor, or plasma.
Here's the comparison.

Marco Turns Into Fire

Marco's Devil Fruit allows him to turn into fire.
Some people say "no, it covers him in fire, and when he gets wounded it doesn't look like it". This is wrong.

On Chapter 554, Marco is shot by the lasers of Kizaru all over his body, and we see that Marco has a hole in his head. The hole ends up filling with fire and regenerates into Marco's body.

On Chapter 1006, Marco gets his wing chopped off by King. Instead of him needing to regenerate or reconnect his arm, he turns into his base and turns his feathers into a huge fireball. As he does that, he seemingly merges with the fireball to attack King. Prior to him manipulating the wings into a fireball, we see his hand turn into fire.

So the main thing is that Marco transforms into fire. That would give him Mid-High regeneration in itself, just like Ace and Sabo.

Marco vs Pika Pika

The Pika Pika no Mi allows the user to transform into light. Light falls under the regeneration for High,
High: The ability to regenerate from a few scattered or lone molecules, atoms, or sub-atomic particles.
So Kizaru as of now has High Regeneration.

Kizaru, someone with High-Regen, says that Marco can regenerate from anything. This is backed up by the Vivre Card databook summary which says "it seems to imply that his regeneration has no limits".

This is clearly a NLF, but what this implies is that inverse, Marco has high tier regeneration in the verse, and his "no limits" signifies that there's nothing inverse that has superior regen to him, since there's nothing superior to "no limits".

Basically

Marco's regeneration should be minimum Mid-High (scaling to the other users who's bodies are turned into fire) and maximum high (for being superior to other regeneration).

Haki

We've discussed in this thread that scaling off of Marco, Haki should get Regeneration Negation.

This would raise the Regen that it can negate from Mid to minimum Mid-High and maximum High.


In Conclusion

Marco should have Minimum Mid-High and Maximum High regen.

EDIT​

Changes have been declined, It went from a Marco upgrade to a logia downgrade. Ignore everything above.
 
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Why exactly do you disagree?

I can personally say yes to High. Mid-High seems like a lowball to try to get this through with little contention, but honestly High seems more accurate.
Well first of all regenerate from everything would be fine even for Mid high as basically nothing can go beyond vaping in one piece and the stuff that does would be beyond high and it appears his regeneration has no limits is just that it appears which is not very valid for finding out the power of it
for it being the best in the verse honestly Logias are never thought of as regen in verse it’s just we gave them that because of their elements

for my opinion this CRT is coming too soon when we could be getting a explanation on his regen in Wano but I am fine with him getting it now
 
honestly Logias are never thought of as regen in verse it’s just we gave them that because of their elements
This, Logias only have regen while in their elemental form and are only said to have regen out-verse (i really don't remember it ever being called a regen in-verse), while iirc Marco is the only character with a real regen, for example, Marco in Ace's place wouldn't have died to Akainu.

I disagree.
 
I'm neutral, but I will point out that we don't normally great regeneration solely because characters have elemental intangibility and or self transmutation. Unless they have this thing were attempting to pummel them would do nothing save reduce them to liquid which they can regenerate. Or if they possess the ability to regenerate their entire body from small amounts of what their elements are and what not. Also, I'm against High regeneration for Enel; lightning bolts are still plasma much like fire and would only qualify for Mid-High.

I'm unsure about Kizaru, not sure if regenerating from pure light would be High or Mid-High. Though, if they regenerate from a couple of photons, it would be high. High regen is only applied if they regenerate from a few scattered or lone particles.
 
I will point out that we don't normally great regeneration solely because characters have elemental intangibility and or self transmutation.
Shouldn't Logias' regen be removed then? Tho you said "normally" so i think there may be exceptions, but is OP one of them?
 
I thought it was quite obvious Marco had the best regen in the show as of now. However I’m not sure if you’re implying that Haki would negate his regen, it’s been stated multiple times that those flames have special properties, and he is not logia.
 
I think removing regen from Logias solves the issue, because their regen never comes in play at any point, either they are intangible and thus there is no damage being caused to them to be regenerated or they are hit with haki that hits their true bodies directly and thus can't be reverted with their element.
 
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...uh...


He'd regenerate the damage it caused, aka pretty much breaking his neck, but he didn't. He was injured for days on end and his regen never did anything.
 
I think removing regen from Logias solves the issue, because their regen never comes in play at any point, either they are intangible and thus there is no damage being caused to them to be regenerated or they are hit with haki that hits their true bodies directly and thus can't be reverted with their element.
But they are regenerating. They are regenerating their elements when in logia form.

You can still slice a logia in half but they can just regenerate the other half of their body if you are unable to interact with their true body.

it’s similar to opm’s Melzalgald’s regen, he doesn’t get truly damaged unless you hit his core which is his “true body” in a sense but he still has regen in his profile.

just because one doesn’t regenerate flesh it does not mean it isn’t regen.
 
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I'm neutral, but I will point out that we don't normally great regeneration solely because characters have elemental intangibility and or self transmutation. Unless they have this thing were attempting to pummel them would do nothing save reduce them to liquid which they can regenerate. Or if they possess the ability to regenerate their entire body from small amounts of what their elements are and what not. Also, I'm against High regeneration for Enel; lightning bolts are still plasma much like fire and would only qualify for Mid-High.

I'm unsure about Kizaru, not sure if regenerating from pure light would be High or Mid-High. Though, if they regenerate from a couple of photons, it would be high. High regen is only applied if they regenerate from a few scattered or lone particles.
0509-019.png
0510-003.png
 
Shouldn't Logias' regen be removed then? Tho you said "normally" so i think there may be exceptions, but is OP one of them?
Check the scan i sent above. Usually intangibility doesn't give it, but we see people like Kizaru regenerate
 
I also agree with removing regeneration from Logias tbh. Elemental intangibility should cover their ability to "regenerate".

The Kizaru example above, I would consider more to just be elemental intangibility than the ability of regeneration.

As for Marco, I don't think he actually transforms into fire so much as he's just always covered in fire when fully transformed.
 
The examples for regen are in the threads I just recently linked.

And i explained why Marco transforms into fire in the OP
 
just because one doesn’t regenerate flesh it does not mean it isn’t regen.

Fair point. Then it can stay.

I'm unsure about Kizaru, not sure if regenerating from pure light would be High or Mid-High. Though, if they regenerate from a couple of photons, it would be high. High regen is only applied if they regenerate from a few scattered or lone particles.

This is also a fair point. I don't think we've ever seen any Logia user get reduced down that far.
 
I think this issue with elemental intangibility and regen isn't just a OP thing, cause i think i don't know a single character with elemental intangibility that does not have some regen from "Low-High, can turn into water and back to normal at will" or something like that.
 
I think this issue with elemental intangibility and regen isn't just a OP thing, cause i think i don't know a single character with elemental intangibility that does not have some regen from "Low-High, can turn into water and back to normal at will" or something like that.
This isn't what they get their regeneration from.

They completely create new elements.

When Luffy ate Smoker, it didn't leave his body, Smoker generated new smoke.

When Luffy punched apart Crocodile, he spread out meters apart as sand particles and put himself back together.

Elemental intan is just not getting hit and turning into your element, but they can generate more of their substance unlike others, hence the term regenerate.
 
When Luffy ate Smoker, it didn't leave his body, Smoker generated new smoke.
Fair, which chapter was this?

When Luffy punched apart Crocodile, he spread out meters apart as sand particles and put himself back together.
The example above and this one are really different, because here there is no destroyed part of Crocodile, it is exactly what i said before "turned into his element at will, and returned to normal at will".

But anyway, i don't think there is any reason to keep this discussion, i already said i agree with Mid-High cause Marco is made of fire (question, his legs are also fire? cause he grabbed Zoro so it would be strange).

But wouldn't this remove regen negation from haki? Since Marco is going to have elemental intangibility, which we know Haki can ignore (same way we don't add regen null from damaging Katakuri or Logias).
 
Elemental intan is just not getting hit and turning into your element, but they can generate more of their substance unlike others, hence the term regenerate.

Which users of elemental intangibility can't do this?

But wouldn't this remove regen negation from haki? Since Marco is going to have elemental intangibility, which we know Haki can ignore (same way we don't add regen null from damaging Katakuri or Logias).

The issue stems from Marco seemingly not healing the injury on his face after Garp punched him. But did we ever see him use his flames on his face after that point in the fight?
 
Fair, which chapter was this?
Chapter 168 I think
0168-012.png


Aokiji did the same thing in 553, except he wasn't eaten, but shattered.
0553-004.png

The example above and this one are really different, because here there is no destroyed part of Crocodile, it is exactly what i said before "turned into his element at will, and returned to normal at will".
That's fair, I can agree with this.
But anyway, i don't think there is any reason to keep this discussion, i already said i agree with Mid-High cause Marco is made of fire (question, his legs are also fire? cause he grabbed Zoro so it would be strange).
Nah, cause Smoker grabbed people with his smoke. It's just manga weird stuff.
But wouldn't this remove regen negation from haki? Since Marco is going to have elemental intangibility, which we know Haki can ignore (same way we don't add regen null from damaging Katakuri or Logias).
The difference is that Logias specifically lose their elemental intangibility when touched by Haki, while Marco is a Zoan (which aren't getting hit in their "true form").
Also, he was hit by Haki and even after he lost contact with the haki, he couldn't regenerate the damage.
Haki ignores on contact, but even when he lost contact from Garp he couldn't heal/regen the damage.
 
Which users of elemental intangibility can't do this?
The real question is who doesn't? i haven't seen or heard of a character with elemental intan who has shown to naturally generate their own elements. Most of the users I've seen (mainly water users) just merge with water whenever they're injured.
The issue stems from Marco seemingly not healing the injury on his face after Garp punched him. But did we ever see him use his flames on his face after that point in the fight?
On 578 when they face up against Akainu, he's healing himself
 
The difference is that Logias specifically lose their elemental intangibility when touched by Haki, while Marco is a Zoan (which aren't getting hit in their "true form").
Also, he was hit by Haki and even after he lost contact with the haki, he couldn't regenerate the damage.
Haki ignores on contact, but even when he lost contact from Garp he couldn't heal/regen the damage.
Well, Katakuri isn't a Logia and has elemental intangibility that can be nulled by haki, so i think haki nulling ALL elemental intangibilities, regardless of the DF's type, makes much more sense. In case someone wants to bring Prome/Zeus, they aren't DF's, so haki being unable to touch them means nothing to what i said.

I mean, he regenerated after some time, so it isn't full regen null anyway. Also, are we adding it to every single haki user or just really powerful users? Because Garp is far from a fodder and we know advanced haki is where these more "hax" powers start to appear.
 
Well, Katakuri isn't a Logia and has elemental intangibility that can be nulled by haki, so i think haki nulling ALL elemental intangibilities, regardless of the DF's type, makes much more sense.
True. The difference is that Marco could've had the time to heal after. Maro could've been hit for sure, but the fact that he didn't heal the damage is an issue.
I mean, he regenerated after some time, so it isn't full regen null anyway.
He still had his bandages during the funeral.
Also, are we adding it to every single haki user or just really powerful users? Because Garp is far from a fodder and we know advanced haki is where these more "hax" powers start to appear.
Having stronger Haki was never shown to add extra abilities (unless it was more advanced haki which adds new abilities not related to DFs), it just made those previous abilities stronger.
 
True. The difference is that Marco could've had the time to heal after. Maro could've been hit for sure, but the fact that he didn't heal the damage is an issue.
I see no reason why regen null is needed with Marco being intangible, since haki would be able to touch his "natural body" where DF-regen can't be used, and the attack being just an impact (with no bones breaking) would be something his natural healing can heal after some time, which is exactly what we see.

So, any idea what the SFX when Garp punched him means? Because if it means something broke, there is something really strange here.

He still had his bandages during the funeral.
That's why i think a limited, a note or something like that should be added if we are keeping the regen null, it does not seem to have stopped his natural regen, since doing it would stop the regen in that area forever, or maybe it only stops all forms of regen for a certain amount of (unknown) time after the attack.

Having stronger Haki was never shown to add extra abilities (unless it was more advanced haki which adds new abilities not related to DFs), it just made those previous abilities stronger.
My bad, "powerful" was the wrong word, i didn't mean AP, but advanced haki users, we don't have examples of it happening anywhere else with the buso koka everyone has in New World, the only example comes from one of the greatest haki users of the verse (and if King/Queen do it again, it would be another feat that only happened at really high levels).
 
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