Light Speed Projectiles in Ninjago

[Lloydblitzed]

Moved off this thread + Additional stuff for calcs

Celestial Clock's light beam
The beam in question is said to be made of concentrated light, refracting over glass and being reflected on metal structures

Lloyd's blasts
Here are reasons why I think we should consider Lloyd's energy blasts light speed which:

• Stated by Cole to be some kind of "green light"
• Consistently travels in a straight line as shown here, here, here, here and here
• His blasts are deflected on Metal as shown here (Chen used the element of metal here), here against Morro and here against Pythor
• The Grundle, who is stated and shown vulnerable to light, is also affected when Lloyd charges up a blast, clearly affected by the light it emitted
• We see his energy beam refracting on a liquid such as water alongside other sources of light too (u can see it more clearly here), which is another qualifier for Light based stuff
• Refracted on glass

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[DavidTPPM]

Celestial Clock's light beam
The beam in question is said to be made of concentrated light, refracting over glass and being reflected on metal structures

This looks solid. The balls do look like metal, clear reflect/deflect the beam, and the statement is also very straight forward.

Lloyd's blasts
Here are reasons why I think we should consider Lloyd's energy blasts light speed which:

• Stated by Cole to be some kind of "green light"

This is where my issues start. Cole has no reason to know what Lloyds attacks are made out of. Furthermore he confirms that he doesn't know in the very same statement making this statement completely unreliable.

• Consistently travels in a straight line as shown here, here, here, here and here

Like I said before, this is fine but traveling in a straight line isn't a qualifier but a requirement.
And these are all short range examples. Even something like bullets or rocks thrown by humans would travel in a straight line over short distances. Basically what I'm saying is that this isn't inherently wrong but it can barely be considered supportive evidence.

• His blasts are deflected on Metal as shown here (Chen used the element of metal here),

Already addressed this. The blast stays on Chen for a moment (instead of instantaneously reflecting) and Chen has to thrust it backwards, meaning there is no basis for this to be reflection rather than just Chen throwing it back (lmao).
He even seems to grab it with his left hand when he thrusts it back, clearly showing he's putting effect into returning the attack.

• here against Morro

Also already went over this. A large portion of the attack does not directly interact with the blade itself meaning it has no reason to be reflected off of its metal. The only way it could be deflected by only interacting with a part of the ball is either via NPI or if the ball isn't actually made out of light but some solid energy

The counter argument was that Morro has NPI, but if you argue he can throw it back in it's entirety thanks to NPI you automatically kill the reflection argument. As in that case the scene is entirely possible with just NPI without the beam reflecting off of the surface of the metal.

And I actually agree that it very much does look like Morro is throwing the ball back rather than reflecting it. You clearly see his hand movements are applying force to it to send it back. Meaning either he's throwing it back thanks to NPI, or because it's not light. Either way killing the argument that it's reflecting off of the metal of the blade.

• and here against Pythor

It doesn't. It just knocks the staff out of his hands. Hell if it was light and the staff was metal, every part of the ball that interacted with it should have been reflected all around him as the staff is circular, but it doesn't seem to reflect at all.

• The Grundle, who is stated and shown vulnerable to light, is also affected when Lloyd charges up a blast, clearly affected by the light it emitted

I don’t think anyone will question the energy ball emitting light. The issue is that emitting light doesn't even remotely imply the ball itself is made out of light. Almost all energy based attacks in fiction emit light but that doesn't mean they are made out of light.

• We see his energy beam refracting on a liquid such as water alongside other sources of light too (u can see it more clearly here), which is another qualifier for Light based stuff

That's a misleading lie. The energy beam itself doesn't reflect off of water. The light it emits reflects off of water. This is not an argument for the same reason as the previous one.

• Refracted on glass

And same here. The beam itself didn't refract on glass. The light it emitted did.

You can make the last 3 arguments about any light source from a lit up match up to a turned on phone. Emitting light doesn't mean the source is made out of light itself.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Celestial Clock's light beam
The beam in question is said to be made of concentrated light, refracting over glass and being reflected on metal structures

Agree

• here against Morro

I previously stated in the previous thread it was due to NPI

• and here against Pythor
• The Grundle, who is stated and shown vulnerable to light, is also affected when Lloyd charges up a blast, clearly affected by the light it emitted
• We see his energy beam refracting on a liquid such as water alongside other sources of light too (u can see it more clearly here), which is another qualifier for Light based stuff
• Refracted on glass

I don’t think anyone will question the energy ball emitting light. The issue is that emitting light doesn't even remotely imply the ball itself is made out of light. Almost all energy based attacks in fiction emit light but that doesn't mean they are made out of light.

That's a misleading lie. The energy beam itself doesn't reflect off of water. The light it emits reflects off of water. This is not an argument for the same reason as the previous one.

And same here. The beam itself didn't refract on glass. The light it emitted did.

You can make the last 3 arguments about any light source from a lit up match up to a turned on phone. Emitting light doesn't mean the source is made out of light itself.

I changed my mind. It would imply that the rays of Lloyd's blasts are indeed made light, as its also used as a source of light

 

[DavidTPPM]

I changed my mind. It would imply that the rays of Lloyd's blasts are indeed made light, as its also used as a source of light

Why would something being used as a source of light imply that thing itself is made out of light? There are hundreds of IRL sources of light, none of which are literally made out of light.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Why would something being used as a source of light imply that thing itself is made out of light?

Even if the Source wasn't made out of light, the light rays created around his beams should be SOL (Just like Sun and its Sunlight rays)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Even if the Source wasn't made out of light, the light rays created around his beams should be SOL (Just like Sun and its Sunlight rays)

Just like any light rays emitted from any source of light. But dodging the attack ≠ dodging the light it emits.
By that logic our own sun would be moving at the speed of light lmao

 

[AigerTheKing]

Just like any light rays emitted from any source of light. But dodging the attack ≠ dodging the light it emits.
By that logic our own sun would be moving at the speed of light lmao

There's a difference in the ray's range in both case tbh

 

[DavidTPPM]

There's a difference in the ray's range in both case tbh

I don’t see how that would matter.
There doesn't seem to be any connection between the composition and speed of the energy beam itself and the speed and composition of the light it emits.

Like if I throw a turned on phone at you, you won't have to out speed the light it's emitting to dodge the phone itself.

 

[AigerTheKing]

I also remember Lloyd creating plenty of white light beams reflecting on glass like structures in the Temple of Light. I think that should be taken into consideration

 

[AigerTheKing]

Like if I throw a turned on phone at you, you won't have to out speed the light it's emitting to dodge the phone itself.

Not like u can outspeed it to begin with. But like, if I ignite a phone right in front of you, would a human be fast enough to dodge the light that will emit the second the phone turns on ?

 

[DavidTPPM]

But like, if I ignite a phone right in front of you, would a human be fast enough to dodge the light that will emit the second the phone turns on ?

No? But neither do the people who get shot with Lloyds blasts dodge the light Lloyds energy beams emit.

Like there's literally nothing special about Lloyds energy blasts compared to any average Kamehameha or rasen shuriken.

 

[SunDaGamer]

I agree with DavidTPPM. I'm not really seeing how these would prove Lloyd's energy blasts move at light speed, if his attacks were said to be made of light and they were fired as a ray of light (which has the properties meeting our standards like this) then sure but we wouldn't automatically assume that a ball made of energy would be fired at light speed just because it emits light.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with DavidTPPM. I'm not really seeing how these would prove Lloyd's energy blasts move at light speed, if his attacks were said to be made of light and they were fired as a ray of light (which has the properties meeting our standards like this) then sure but we wouldn't automatically assume that a ball made of energy would be fired at light speed just because it emits light.

What about the first one (the celestial laser

 

[SunDaGamer]

What about the first one (the celestial laser

Celestial Laser being SoL is fine