Let's finally fix Star Butterfly.

[Oleggator]

I don't know if guys are planning to do something with Star already but I think we should do it now. Her profile is basically hard to tell all problems but I'll try.

1. Keys
Star lost her Keys in AP and tier, and now she had low 2-C with full potential of wand and 2-A(for which we will come back soon). I feel more alright for it than earlier, full potential is more safe for uni star on profile but there's other problem.
Why other stats and power and abilities doesn't lost keys? As she shouldn't have them mentioned if she lost her keys. We should merge other keys then.

2.Speeed
Speed is another issue, I would ignore her MFTL+ but what with her reaction, combat and travel speed? It's all only possibly sub-relativistic, but how she normally would be rated?
3.Her 2-A.
Her merging the multiverse is maybe makes sense but why "with most potent spells"? And maybe to discuss how exactly it should be rated cause I really don't think it's directly AP, especially since feat performed pretty conditionally.

I'm maybe not a good power scaler of star, but hear me out, we should do something with her profile.

More input would be pleased as well.

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Cropfist]

I do not understand what exactly is to be changed.

 

[Oleggator]

I do not understand what exactly is to be changed.

At least fully deleting keys, she got deleted keys in tier and AP but they're left in other stuff.

 

[Oleggator]

And by keys I mean "|" things.

 

[Cropfist]

At least fully deleting keys, she got deleted keys in tier and AP but they're left in other stuff.

Why?

 

[Oleggator]

Why?

Because why character's tier and AP is not separated by keys as previous but other stuff does?

That's not how it works, or at least that's not what I've seen how works in other profiles.

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Cropfist]

Keys have been used to separate powers only before, from what I see

 

[Oleggator]

Keys have been used to separate powers only before, from what I see

Can I see an example? Though there few issues left still.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Star's 2-A seems a lot more like Environment Destruction than AP.

 

[Oleggator]

Star's 2-A seems a lot more like Environment Destruction than AP.

That's one of things I want to consider, the feat also was performed not through her most potent spells but she just got into the dimension which connects all magic across multiverse to use whispering spell to delete magic, which later causes that merge.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah so it's not 2-A attack potency. You could stipulate that she can erase magic up to a 2-A level but that's hax, it does not get a tier.

 

[Oleggator]

Want to point out is there any other speed calcs for Star which we can use more safe instead of staying just "possibly Sub-Relativistic".
Also apparently there's some stuff left with the verse.

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Eficiente]

Can someone show this feat: "Fused the multiverse with Marco Diaz"? Everything I saw so far of the most powerful spells always have the user needing to do some build up to them and her profile doesn't point this out at all.

Idk 2-A, but at least the Low 2-C shouldn't be "at full potential", but with the build up that needs to be done, "at full potential" implies she doesn't feel like holding back anymore or something. And freeze time should be removed there as a feat.

The speed I believe others saw it as an outlier and that attack speed should vary, with MFTL+ going as in "up to" that.

 

[Oleggator]

Can someone show this feat: "Fused the multiverse with Marco Diaz"? Everything I saw so far of the most powerful spells always have the user needing to do some build up to them and her profile doesn't point this out at all.

This:


And that's it.

 

[Oleggator]

Idk 2-A, but at least the Low 2-C shouldn't be "at full potential", but with the build up that needs to be done, "at full potential" implies she doesn't feel like holding back anymore or something. And freeze time should be removed there as a feat.

Like, varies from 8-C to low 2-C with spells?
Btw from what Star's 8-B comes?

 

[Eficiente]

This:


And that's it.

I don't see them fusing the multiverse.

 

[Oleggator]

I don't see them fusing the multiverse.

Also forgot this:

 

[Eficiente]

Several issues. The fusion doesn't seem to be because of Star and Marco but but as some unknown error from that team work ritual Star did + what she and Marco did. How do we know the multiverse was fused and not just Star's dimension with Marco's? Or better yet, less than their whole universes like just their planets.

 

[Oleggator]

So I guess if there wouldn't be disagreements this can be removed. So we have other stuff to discuss.
My one of the question would be does actually we have character who have one stats separated by keys while others are separated by keys like in Star case. (like, does it's allowed?).
Is there other speed rates of her reaction, combat travel that not possibly and from what her 8-B comes from?
Also I remember in thread where 2-A was discussed (see above) was also said to instead of using Star's wand abilities saying something like:"Have all magic wand abilities" and link to magic wand.

 

[Galvino]

I've contacted Giver and Ploz, the guys responsible for the upgrades in the first place and the most recent changes, and I think we should wait for them to comment before any new changes are made.

 

[Oleggator]

I've contacted Giver and Ploz, the guys responsible for the upgrades in the first place and the most recent changes, and I think we should wait for them to comment before any new changes are made.

Ok, that's good.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Star's 2-A seems a lot more like Environment Destruction than AP.

I don't see why this would be the case. It's a merging feat that's similar to a lot of other tier-based merging feats.

That's one of things I want to consider, the feat also was performed not through her most potent spells but she just got into the dimension which connects all magic across multiverse to use whispering spell to delete magic, which later causes that merge.

It's a joint spell that involves Star dipping down. If you have even the most baseline knowledge of the series about dipping down, you would understand why it'd be up there as with most potent spells. Those are the spells that require users to use their most potent magic in situations.

The Whispering Spell literally has nothing to do with the dimensions merging either. Star's tapestry is based on if the magic had just been destroyed, and they emphasize multiple times that destroying the Magic would separate Star and Marco from each other forever because the magic allows them to travel between different dimensions. What you're positing here is the exact opposite effect the show throws at you so many times about the consequences of destroying it that it's not remotely funny. Star and Marco are most definitely the cause of it because the whole point is that their love overcame fate to be with each other. Your interpretation is botched to the point it outright ignores the narrative and thematic meaning of the finale.

No offense but this seems like an exact repeat of the last thread where we already explained to you how this works and other staff members agreed with us on it. This is honestly really annoying that you decided to make another downgrade after we've done this same song and dance.

The fusion doesn't seem to be because of Star and Marco but but as some unknown error from that team work ritual Star did + what she and Marco did.

Already explained this. Just watch the show and you can understand why the context is important.

How do we know the multiverse was fused and not just Star's dimension with Marco's?

We see Dragoncycles fly in the sky and those are only native to Hekapoo's dimension. Kelly is implied to have still been there too despite having a different dimension. It's very clear that their merge affected other dimensions too.

Or better yet, less than their whole universes like just their planets.

This is an incredibly arbitrary stipulation that's forced on the feat for no reason. You're insinuating that they randomly decided to only suck in the planets but gave a **** you to the rest of the dimension and let them stay separate. That is so incredibly specific and has no evidence supporting it that it shouldn't need to be explained what's wrong with it. Mind you, we've already been over how other dimensions were affected by this too. You'd be arguing they fused only an infinite amount of planets together which is ridiculous.

Several issues.

I have several issues here myself. It seems like you're dismissing the feat without ever having watched the show or knowing the context behind the feat. You made random assumptions about the scene that go explicitly against the narrative and are trying to enforce random restrictions on the feat when this is bordering on conspiracy theorist levels of argument. I'm pretty sure you did the exact same thing with Palkia's feat and got told off for doing that. I don't see why you're doing this here again.

I don't really want to reply here beyond this. I've made it clear I don't care about this site anymore, and the person who made this thread is trying the exact same tactics that they did in the last thread and somehow aren't being reprimanded for it. I only replied here because I'm pretty sure Giver has also had enough of the nonsense here which is why I even replied in the first place or else nobody aside from Galvino would be able to point out what's wrong with this thread.

 

[Oleggator]

Thanks for helping. Just need the exact corrections and justifications in profile.
What would be right is not the main point of the thread and this is not created mainly for upgrades nor downgrades, basically it's created to correct justifications and at least make her profile more understandable, so any help is appreciated as well.
Would she be downgraded or upgraded is stuff guys can debate with.

 

[Galvino]

Dargoo, a mod that retired, already agreed with 2-A at full potential and Ant let us make the changes. Going through more debates, about the 2-A tier, sounds tiresome as it is unnecessary.

As for speed, yeah Star is more like subsonic with travel speed but relativistic or FTL with reaction and combat speed. We have a calc for the travel speed. As for reaction/combat, Star and Marco are seen multiple times reacting to and dodging lasers and light based attacks.

As for the keys, I guess you guys can figure that out and mess with, I don't know.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

But is her 2-A usable AP or just a merging feat? If it's the latter then she should not get that tier normally since it's entirely situational.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

If it's the latter then she should not get that tier normally since it's entirely situational.

I don't see where you're getting the idea it's situational. They merge the universes, and that's all there is to it. The Whispering Spell contributed nothing at all to the feat unlike what the OP tried saying.

 

[Eficiente]

We see Dragoncycles fly in the sky and those are only native to Hekapoo's dimension. Kelly is implied to have still been there too despite having a different dimension. It's very clear that their merge affected other dimensions too.

Other dimensions=/=all dimensions.

This is an incredibly arbitrary stipulation that's forced on the feat for no reason. You're insinuating that they randomly decided to only suck in the planets but gave a **** you to the rest of the dimension and let them stay separate. That is so incredibly specific and has no evidence supporting it that it shouldn't need to be explained what's wrong with it. Mind you, we've already been over how other dimensions were affected by this too. You'd be arguing they fused only an infinite amount of planets together which is ridiculous.

No need to act like that. If we didn't see the whole universes getting merged then there's no need to claim that that happened, they having "randomly decided to only suck in the planets" makes as much sense as having decided to do so to the universes. It's not incredibly specific, the feat being claimed is more than what we see, which is in turn pretty vague. There already exists evidence based on what we see while there's no evidence I see for the whole multiverse having been merged, which is a bigger thing to claim. If they already went over this then they could have done their job better than to just put "Fused the multiverse with Marco Diaz" in Star's profile, as far as anyone reading knows Star fused the whole multiverse into Marco himself. I didn't say that they fuse an infinite amount of planets.

It seems like you're dismissing the feat without ever having watched the show

Not really you're just going on the defensive on this, I asked for evidence and pointed out how I was unsatisfied with it, if better evidence is shown then I'll be fine with it and want it on the profile. I figured I didn't need to watch the show to go into some thread called like this that nobody was replying to and point out the things I did to help out, if one needs to watch the show to get the stat then the profile is doing its job wrong, and it is.

or knowing the context behind the feat.

Again, it's the job of the profile. Or the people telling the feat as I look forward having it portrayed accurately.

I'm pretty sure you did the exact same thing with Palkia's feat and got told off for doing that. I don't see why you're doing this here again.

This is beyond cheap, so what? I'm supposed to get baited into derailing the thread because of this and not be responsable and just ignore it while letting you get away with it? Please mature from making comments like this.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

No need to act like that.

I find the need when we had a 2-A thread in the past, and you went away and conceded on those points because you had nothing. You can't expect someone to not be annoyed if you're going to repeat your arguments after they were already rejected.

Other dimensions=/=all dimensions.

This went from "It didn't affect any other dimensions aside from Star and Marco's" to "not all dimensions". I'll take that as you acknowledging your prior point was wrong and conceding it. It's very much implied to be to all dimensions. They are pulling dimensions together that were originally connected by the Realm of Magic, something that connects to all of the dimensions in the verse, it's that simple.

If we didn't see the whole universes getting merged then there's no need to claim that that happened, they having "randomly decided to only suck in the planets" makes as much sense as having decided to do so to the universes. It's not incredibly specific, the feat being claimed is more than what we see, which is in turn pretty vague. There already exists evidence based on what we see while there's no evidence I see for the whole multiverse having been merged, which is a bigger thing to claim. If they already went over this then they could have done their job better than to just put "Fused the multiverse with Marco Diaz" in Star's profile, as far as anyone reading knows Star fused the whole multiverse into Marco himself.

You can see a starry sky and multiple planetoids brought in as well after the dimensions fuse, none of which were at all present in Earth's sky originally. We don't need to see a literal animation where you see bubble universes become one. That's being so unnecessarily picky to the point it makes no sense at all. I hope you realize that we only get to see the fused world for like less than a minute of time on-screen. So yeah, of course, it's not going to address every little nitpick that you want to see to make sure the feat is 100% undoubtably objective. That's why schools teach you this thing called "context clues" though where you can understand a greater idea without having to be shown it. Also, saying "it could be this" doesn't debunk the argument at all. Again, this is conspiracy theorist logic. The wording itself is fine; it describes what the feat is. She literally fused the multiverse into one world when doing it with Marco. That's again very nitpicky at best, not an actual complaint that delegitimizes the feat.

I didn't say that they fuse an infinite amount of planets.

I'm saying that if we went through your interpretation that it only sucked in the planets, it affecting all of those other dimensions would cause this as a byproduct. You should understand just how stupid this sounds when I repeat it back to you.

Not really you're just going on the defensive on this, I asked for evidence and pointed out how I was unsatisfied with it, if better evidence is shown then I'll be fine with it and want it on the profile. I figured I didn't need to watch the show to go into some thread called like this that nobody was replying to and point out the things I did to help out, if one needs to watch the show to get the stat then the profile is doing its job wrong, and it is.

It's because you're stating things without ever having watched the show. The OP provided links to the feat in question, and you just randomly decided to assume the Whispering Spell was the cause of it when that's literally the opposite of what the show establishes. Destroying the magic would have only just kept them forever separated.

Star: My tapestry! It's finished! [gasps] Oh, my. I actually destroy the magic? So my temper tantrum was right all along!
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star looks behind her. The previous Queens of Mewni have vanished and are back in their tapestries.
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star: And they're gone. [looks at her tapestry] Monster Castle is looking good, no Mina, and everyone is safe and happy. Okay, great! Obviously gonna go destroy the magic now! ...Wait. Where's Marco?
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Marco is not present in Star's tapestry.
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star: So... no magic means no Marco?
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Glossaryck: Actually, no magic means no Glossaryck. Marco will be fine. The magic will put him back where he belongs.
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star: On Earth. But that's not fair! Plus, that doesn't even make sense! The magic put Marco in the lint catcher at the Mewni castle, and it put me in a shed with Doop-Doop, and my mom on Pie Island!
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Glossaryck: Oh, I'm sure it had a really good reason to do that. Your mom makes really good pies.
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star: [pounds on loom] Hey, excuse me! Excuse me! You need to change this! My boyfriend Marco – he is missing in this picture! [tearing up] Can you please just add him in there? Like, maybe holding my hand or... just...?
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Glossaryck: Star.
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star: It's just, he... he belongs with me!
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Glossaryck: Star!
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Star What?!
https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/The_Tavern_at_the_End_of_the_Multiverse/Transcript
Glossaryck: I think the tapestry is done.

If you're unsatisfied with something, you should be asking for an explanation. You shouldn't be saying the page is stupid for what it's saying when you seem to be outright admitting you don't know the context of the feat. That's not really the page's fault at that point since you came in here to argue it was wrong and not even looking at anything else to see how that conclusion was derived.

Again, it's the job of the profile. Or the people telling the feat as I look forward having it portrayed accurately.

Then you can ask about the feat instead of acting like it's wrong.

This is beyond cheap, so what? I'm supposed to get baited into derailing the thread because of this and not be responsable and just ignore it while letting you get away with it? Please mature from making comments like this.

I don't see how that's cheap at all. I'm pointing out the fact you've been called out for this type of needless specifism in the past, and you're repeating it on this thread. Derail would imply it's not relevant; it's relevant if you've been told not to do something but continue to.

 

[Oleggator]

Also would ask again for what reason Svtfoe characters have 8-B on tier. Is that baseline with just some reason or it's have a calc?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Scaling from River Butterfly, but the feat in question is actually High 8-C

 

[Galvino]

If Eficiente is saying that maybe the profile wasn't clear enough on explanations, then maybe he has a point and we could fix that together, but to say the current feats are straight up wrong, due to ignorance, isn't the best conclusion to go with.

 

[Eficiente]

I find the need when we had a 2-A thread in the past, and you went away and conceded on those points because you had nothing. You can't expect someone to not be annoyed if you're going to repeat your arguments after they were already rejected.

Well, no, this is needless drama and false. That 2-A thread has nothing to do with this stat Star has as the feat was another, I pointed out some concerns that other users saw and built from there and I went away when I couldn't help more, I never saw before this 2-A stat Star has. And even then, why being annoyed or antagonist at me? I don't want downgrades for the sake of downgrades, just accuracy and clarity, it would take far less time for everyone to just tell me the reasons why they think I'm wrong and be done with it without extra filler.

This went from "It didn't affect any other dimensions aside from Star and Marco's" to "not all dimensions". I'll take that as you acknowledging your prior point was wrong and conceding it. It's very much implied to be to all dimensions. They are pulling dimensions together that were originally connected by the Realm of Magic, something that connects to all of the dimensions in the verse, it's that simple.

That very much makes it look like it's gonna be legit, but the profile still needs better evidence for it, and the wording from it doesn't cut it.

You can see a starry sky and multiple planetoids brought in as well after the dimensions fuse, none of which were at all present in Earth's sky originally. We don't need to see a literal animation where you see bubble universes become one. That's being so unnecessarily picky to the point it makes no sense at all. I hope you realize that we only get to see the fused world for like less than a minute of time on-screen. So yeah, of course, it's not going to address every little nitpick that you want to see to make sure the feat is 100% undoubtably objective. That's why schools teach you this thing called "context clues" though where you can understand a greater idea without having to be shown it. Also, saying "it could be this" doesn't debunk the argument at all. Again, this is conspiracy theorist logic. The wording itself is fine; it describes what the feat is. She literally fused the multiverse into one world when doing it with Marco. That's again very nitpicky at best, not an actual complaint that delegitimizes the feat.

No need to be childish and point out how "schools teach you this thing called "context clues"", legit the thing you said before was just starting to tackle why this was 2-A, to say that, which you didn't before, and now something lesser, and then point out how I should have known by context makes no sense. Saying "it could be this" would have debunk theargument w/o, again, the actually reasons you just state for it, as it would have taken less speculation. The wording is vague and up to interpretation, as I said before as far as anyone reading knows Star alone fused the multiverse with Marco Diaz and the multiverse and Marco became 1, a wording a bit more clear would be "Along with Marco Diaz, they fuzed the multiverse into 1 universe", and an actually competent and honest wording would just be the it's shown they did+what implies it was with the whole multiverse, letting anyone reading make the conclusion themselves and not just biblically read over what we came out with based on evidence and reasons shared among some unshown in the profile. That's "very nitpicky", it's the description of her most powerful stat in a wiki about stat, if you think that vague sentence is ok then you're doing things wrong here. Have I not said before that I don't want to delegitimize the feat but know the reasons for it and that the reasons given so far sucked and that you were on the defensive for no reason?

I'm saying that if we went through your interpretation that it only sucked in the planets, it affecting all of those other dimensions would cause this as a byproduct. You should understand just how stupid this sounds when I repeat it back to you.

I was yet to buy it affecting all dimensions.

It's because you're stating things without ever having watched the show. The OP provided links to the feat in question, and you just randomly decided to assume the Whispering Spell was the cause of it when that's literally the opposite of what the show establishes.

If it was so randomly then anyone could have explained the feat w/o the extra "They are pulling dimensions together that were originally connected by the Realm of Magic, something that connects to all of the dimensions in the verse", which needs to be said and wasn't on the videos.

If you're unsatisfied with something, you should be asking for an explanation. You shouldn't be saying the page is stupid for what it's saying when you seem to be outright admitting you don't know the context of the feat. That's not really the page's fault at that point since you came in here to argue it was wrong and not even looking at anything else to see how that conclusion was derived.

This is delirious at this point, I did ask for the feat, they gave me something incomplete, I said that that was wrong and that the profile lacked any evidence and was vague, which it is. I never said the page was stupid like some hateful person, I pointed out its error aiming to have them be fixed. And stop talking about not knowing the context of the feat when the profile itself doesn't show anything and you claim that's fine, anyone reading it is meant to know as much as you do, which the profile doesn't do a good job at, therefore it's needs to be fixed and it is the page's fault. Nobody needs to go see "how that conclusion was derived", that's some weird stretch you do to make things look at your favor, anyone would need to just read the profile like always.

I don't see how that's cheap at all. I'm pointing out the fact you've been called out for this type of needless specifism in the past, and you're repeating it on this thread. Derail would imply it's not relevant; it's relevant if you've been told not to do something but continue to.

This too I see as delirious, and narcissistic, I can't talk about that topic as it has nothing to do with this thread, you put me in a position where I just have to kindly let you get away with you pointing out at random a thread where people disagreed with me, yet you seem to just still believe you're right on the matter regardless not putting it to discussion. Take this as a staff giving a warning: Do not make more needless drama and please try to be less antagonistic.

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

Bump

 

[Galvino]

So what's your issue with the keys, Oleggator?

 

[Oleggator]

So what's your issue with the keys, Oleggator?

Well, in my pure subjective opinion that's first time I've seen profile separated by keys but not separated in other stats.

It would be more simple to merge it into one and the only thing I see different from star and mewbetry star is LS and some abilities.

If that kind of key separation is ok, then well...
Ok, but if not would be better to merge into one and in some stats put something like "class 5 in mewbetry form", or separate stats which are not separated(tier, speed, AP, SS and etc.) with statistically scaling to own stats.