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Legendary Pokémon Downgrade

Peter1129 said:
I mean the low end is what's currently used on Xerneas' profile so I'm pretty sure it's accepted since the high end is Low 4-C and not 5-B.
Click to expand...
While maybe true, but the fact this came from a Narutoforum calc suggest we should do a recalc by one of the calc members from here to ensure the said end in question is accurate to say the least.
 
Peter1129 said:
I mean the low end is what's currently used on Xerneas' profile so I'm pretty sure it's accepted since the high end is High 5-A and not 5-B.
Click to expand...
This. High 5-A used to be there but we agreed to downgrade it.

That said, does anyone know how much energy it would take for the earth to complete a full cycle of rotating around the sun?
 
@Kukui

consider this

Sisyphus's pusishment is to eternally roll a boulder up a hill

does that mean that Sisyphus can casually roll the boulder up the hill ?

no, it's not the case

or for another exemple Atlas being bound to eternally lift the sky, just really good stamina
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Peter1129 said:
I mean the low end is what's currently used on Xerneas' profile so I'm pretty sure it's accepted since the high end is High 5-A and not 5-B.
Click to expand...
This. High 5-A used to be there but we agreed to downgrade it.
That said, does anyone know how much energy it would take for the earth to complete a full cycle of rotating around the sun?
Click to expand...
This is just the article on how much energy the Earth use to rotate : http://mb-soft.com/public2/earthrot.html which is 2.137 * 1029Joules.
 
Just to clarify the article I linked only mentoned the rotational energy of the Earth itself, not the entire rotating the sun in one cycle for the record.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
This is just the article on how much energy the Earth use to rotate : http://mb-soft.com/public2/earthrot.html which is 2.137 * 1029Joules.
Click to expand...
Okay. Now imagine this continuing to happen for, like, trillions of years and this time applying Xerneas's power.

@Overlord

Thats not an equal comparison though. Someone pushing a boulder up a hill for eternally isnt automatically doing it casually because even though they have eternal stamina, they still need to put in great effort to push the boulder for that long. As in, they need to physically do an action in order to push it.

Xerneas as the tree of life does nothing but just be there on the planet as a tree and it causes the planet to rotate around the sun for trillions of years with its power. I dont understand how constantly applying an amount of power to do a feat over and over and over again throughout a monstrously big timeframe isnt either ridiculously above 717 Z or at the very least isnt being done casually.
 
Pretty sure that's the energy for the Earth rotating on its axis and not the energy for the Earth to revolve around the Sun.
 
Kukui seems to be asking for the energy for the Earth to revolve around the Sun though. Seems like he confused revolution with rotation.
 
@Kukui

1. We don't know how much effort he puts in to it

2. Doing something over a long perior of time is the definition of stamina
 
I thought rotation is only for the Earth spinning on its axis while revolution is for the Earth orbiting around the Sun? Oh whatever I hate science terms they confuse me.
 
Peter1129 said:
Kukui seems to be asking for the energy for the Earth to revolve around the Sun though. Seems like he confused revolution with rotation.
Click to expand...
Did I? If I did then my bad.

Yeah I meant how much energy it would take for the earth to fully revolve around the sun.
 
Peter1129 said:
I thought rotation is only for the Earth spinning on its axis while revolution is for the Earth orbiting around the Sun? Oh whatever I hate science.
Click to expand...
Yes that will be correct except the part that orbiting around the sun for the Earth does mean you have to account for the rotation as well. Don't ask me. It is physics.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Peter1129 said:
Kukui seems to be asking for the energy for the Earth to revolve around the Sun though. Seems like he confused revolution with rotation.
Click to expand...
Did I? If I did then my bad.
Yeah I meant how much energy it would take for the earth to fully revolve around the sun.
Click to expand...
Yeah perhaps I should clarify on what I meant.

If you need to know the amount of the energy for the Earth to fully revolve around the sun, you also have to taken into account the energy of the rotation from the Earth itself due to physics.
 
Overlord775 said:
@Kukui
1. We don't know how much effort he puts in to it

2. Doing something over a long perior of time is the definition of stamina
Click to expand...
Sure, but the difference between these cases is that the man who pushes the boulder is required to make a actual physical action for an eternal period of time, suggesting it isnt casual or else he wouldnt need to physically move the boulder.

While in Xerneas's case, its not physically doing anything Its just...well...a tree. And its pouring its power into the feat of moving the earth around the sun for trillion of years. Of course stamina is going to be a given, but inputing an amount of power for such a ridiculous period of time should show how much power Xerneas actually has. If it's anything quantifiable, it should prove to be higher than 717 Z.
 
Well even if it is a super casual 717 Zettaton feat you still have to convince the staff to accept 5-A 100% Zygarde via being vastly superior to the combined might of Xerneas and Yveltal. With the former having a supposedly super casual 717 Zettaton feat. Essentially you're gonna need to have people accept upscaling 100% Zygarde from a super casual 1.434 Yottatons to 2.7 Yottatons. Which I find to be nearly impossible.
 
I mean this is only my argument and if im out-argued then im out-argued, im just giving a bigger perspective on this as it might be something worth looking into.

If it doesnt work out, im of course all for 5-B+.

Also, please dont say "make". Im not trying to make anyone believe anything here.
 
>Using a calc that mentions this: "So what we have to calculate is the change in the earths rotational energy when it rotates so much slower that the day lasts an extra 5 minutes."

And thus doesn't count for the entire rotational energy for the Earth. Literally
 
Yep I'm pretty sure that's the energy for Earth to rotate on its axis just once.

Also if I'm looking at the calc correctly 717 Zettatons is the total KE for the Earth's rotation and revolution.
 
Peter1129 said:
Yep I'm pretty sure that's the energy for Earth to rotate on its axis just once.

Also if I'm looking at the calc correctly 717 Zettatons is the total KE for the Earth's rotation and revolution.
Click to expand...

Not sure though as the time it takes for the earth to do one revolutions is 365 days = 1 year.
 
Also if I'm looking at the calc correctly the result isnt 717 Zettatons. It's actually 702.731433914 Zettatons.

0.5 * (1.0x10^38 kg m^2) * ( 7.27x10^-5 rad/s )^2 + 0.5 * (1.47x10^47 kg m^2) * ( 2.00x10^-7 rad/s )^2 = 2.94026426 × 1033 joules

2.94026426 × 1033 joules / 2.487x1032 joules (baseline 5-B) = 11.8225342179

11.8225342179 x 59.44 = 702.731433914 Zettatons

Not that anything changes but the results are actually a bit lower than what it says.
 
Peter1129 said:
Also if I'm looking at the calc correctly the result isnt 717 Zettatons. It's actually 702.731433914 Zettatons.

"0.5 * (1.0x10^38 kg m^2) * ( 7.27x10^-5 rad/s )^2 + 0.5 * (1.47x10^47 kg m^2) * ( 2.00x10^-7 rad/s )^2 = 2.94026426 × 1033 joules

2.94026426 × 1033 joules / 2.487x1032 joules (baseline 5-B) = 11.8225342179

11.8225342179 x 59.44 = 702.731433914 Zettatons
Click to expand...
"¤ë Rotation = ( 2 ¤Ç rad) / (24 h x 3600 s/h) = 7.27 x 10^-5 rad/s

¤ë Revolution = ( 2 ¤Ç rad) / ( 364.25 d x 24 h/d x 3600 s/h) = 2.00 x 10^-7 rad/s

Moment of Inertia I for Rotation = 2/5 mR^2 = 2/5 x 6.0 x 10^24 kg x ( 6.4 x 10^6 m )^2 = 1.0 x 10^38 kg m^2

Moment of Inertia I for Revolution = mR^2 = 6.0 x 10^24 kg x ( 1.5 x 10^11 m )^2 = 1.4 x 10^47 kg m^2

KE Total = 1/2 *I Rotation* ¤ë Rotation^2 + 1/2 *I Revolution* ¤ë Revolution^2

KE Total = 0.5 * (1.0x10^38 kg m^2) * ( 7.27x10^-5 rad/s )^2 + 0.5 * (1.47x10^47 kg m^2) * ( 2.00x10^-7 rad/s ) 2

KE Total = 2.9 x 10^33 J for the influence of the Tree on Earth"

From the Narutoforum calc.

Which calc are you referring to here?
 
Xerneas' feat from Narutoforums. I plugged the last few values into google and than converted it into Zettatons. And instead of 717 Zettatons I got 703 Zettatons.
 
Peter1129 said:
Xerneas' feat from Narutoforums. I plugged the last few values into google and than converted it into Zettatons. And instead of 717 Zettatons I got 703 Zettatons.
Click to expand...
Huh a error could occurred in this case.
 
So did I convert it wrong or did Narutoforums convert it wrong? I mean it's not like it matters since the results are still really similar to each other and nothing about the scaling would change but I'm just curious.

Actually now that I think about it this thread is going off topic. So who thinks Magearna is stronger than 100% Zygarde and who thinks Magearna is weaker than 100% Zygarde? Cause I think that's the only one left.

Mega Mewtwo being stronger than Mega Rayquaza who is 420 Zettatons but weaker than 50% Zygarde who is 703 Zettatons and Zygarde's key getting remove seems to be agreed upon by everyone.
 
@Peter


Could be something wrong, but then I came upon this one:

"oh Cat he clearly pulled it a decent distance to the sun, think you should account for that

From 4:06 - 4:20 the earth is pulled here

Spoiler:


object degree size = 2*atan(Object_Size/(Panel_Height/tan(70/2)))

2*atan(732/(766/tan(70/2))) = 67.5751639 degrees

Sun's diameter is 1391000000 meters so Angsize Calculator yields 1039400000 meters away from camera

2*atan(138/(766/tan(70/2))) = 14.3794344 degrees

Earth's diameter is 12756000 meters so Angsize Calculator yields 50560000 meters away from camera

1039400000 - 50560000 = 988840000 meters travelled

988840000 / 16 = 61802500 m/s or 0.20615095c

E=(mc^2/(1-(v^2/c^2)))-mc^2

(5.972e24*299792458^2/sqrt(1-(61802500^2/299792458^2)))-5.972e24*299792458^2 = 1.178207e40 joules or 2.816 tenatons of TNT equivalent so small star level"


I still think a recalc may needed for this if there is gonna be no general agreement on this feat as well.
 
That's the high end that the user added onto their op. He also said that End was iffy. And we decided to use the low end. But if you want to you could find the video and ask a calc member to recalc it. Though for now I think we should stay on topic and use the low end.
 
Peter1129 said:
That's the high end that the user added onto their op. He also said that End was iffy. And we decided to use the low end. But if you want to you could find the video and ask a calc member to recalc it.
Click to expand...
I can see that since there seems to be no revised end in this case.
 
question that i dont remember if i asked in the necrozma thread. If 4-B ultra necrozma fights 100% Zygarde then will it affect pokemon like Xerneas, Yveltal, Mewtwo, Rayquaza ect.?
 
Probably not. The Zygarde cell's boost don't really appear to be linear. 50% Zygarde is supposed to be weaker than Xerneas and Yveltal individually while 100% according to ProfessorKukui4life dwarfs both of them combined in terms of power. So if 100% Zygarde fights Ultra Necrozma it probably won't scale to anyone else.
 
Yeah, in the same way Zygarde 50% isn't simply 5x as strong as Zygarde 10% (and vice versa).
 
Arceus0x said:
question that i dont remember if i asked in the necrozma thread. If 4-B ultra necrozma fights 100% Zygarde then will it affect pokemon like Xerneas, Yveltal, Mewtwo, Rayquaza ect.?
Click to expand...
nope

Su This is Zygarde's form at times when it uses its overwhelming power to suppress those who endanger the ecosystem.
Moo This is Zygarde's 100% form. It has enough power to overwhelm even Xerneas or Yveltal.
Ultra Su This is Zygarde's perfected form. From the orifice on its chest, it radiates high-powered energy that eliminates everything.
Ultra Moo Born when all of Zygarde's cells have been gathered together, it uses force to neutralize those who harm the ecosystem.
 
Anyways if I remember correctly all we have to discuss here now is whether or not Magearna is stronger than or weaker than 100% Zygarde right? Everything else to my knowledge seems to be agreed upon by everyone. So what are your opinions on Magearna's scaling?
 
100% > Megearna > 50%

since 50% wasn't enought to stop the Megearna's attack but 100% only needed one out of his 5 cannons to weaken it enought that a bunch of regular pokemons could stop it.
 
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