Lack of resistances for 1-A characters?

[DeathNoodles]

So, I've looked up some 1-A characters (I've regretted that by the way, I've never gotten such headaches from wrapping my mind around things), and I've noticed that there are no resistances (or immunities) listed in most (if not all) of the profiles of 1-A characters that I've seen, such as the Cthulhu Mythos characters, Hadou gods such as Hajun, etc. And I've at least seen a resistance to an ability listed in a High 1-B character.

Why aren't there any resistances to hax abilities listed in their profiles? Are most 1-A characters so beyond everything else that they don't have much feats that shows their resistances to hax abilities? Or do they have some higher dimensional or conceptual existence (or whatever existence they are) type of thing that makes the whole resistance to whatever sort of hax irrelevant (thus, unnecessary to list in the profiles)? Or are they beings whose capabilities only depends on the statements of characters and the series' respective authors but never makes an actual appearance? I don't understand

 

[WeeklyBattles]

1-As basically just resist everything that isnt 1-A, so its kind of redundant

 

[Dark_warrior_100]

What weekly said

 

[Eganergo]

Because on verse like that, where there is a clear hierarchy, they one shot each other regardless of their resistance.

 

[DeathNoodles]

1-As basically just resist everything that isnt 1-A, so its kind of redundant

What about hax abilities for other 1-A beings (that also works on other 1-A entities)? Does the lack of resistances in their profiles means they get affected by said hax abilities?

 

[DeathNoodles]

Because on verse like that, where there is a clear hierarchy, they one shot each other regardless of their resistance.

What about some hax abilities the 1-A beings pulls out of their ass that works on other 1-A entities (such as really OP Existence Erasure, or Regenerationn Negation up to True-Godly)?

 

[Dark_warrior_100]

What about hax abilities for other 1-A beings (that also works on other 1-A entities)? Does the lack of resistances in their profiles means they get affected by said hax abilities?

They would get affected by someone hierarchically superior to them

 

[DeathNoodles]

What about if the 1-A characters from different series are pitted against each other, with both of these settings having entirely different hierarchies and cosmologies to each other (but these characters are still 1-A)?

Does the hax abilities that the 1-A has (that is shown to work against other 1-As, maybe even against other 1-As that are said to be superior to them) would work against 1-As of other series simply because the 1-A characters of those series lacks resistances in their profiles, or?

 

[Eganergo]

What about if the 1-A characters from different series are pitted against each other, with both of these settings having entirely different hierarchies and cosmologies to each other (but these characters are still 1-A)?

Does the hax abilities that the 1-A has (that is shown to work against other 1-As, maybe even against other 1-As that are said to be superior to them) would work against 1-As of other series simply because the 1-A characters of those series lacks resistances in their profiles, or?

It doesn't matter what the hax is if they can destroy the lower one just by existing alone. Example TLT with all his hax won't be able to affect Masadaverse character, while they can erase TLT by existing alone.

It's like 3d Hax trying to affect 4D character. It won't reach them no matter what.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'm not talking about lower-dimensional entities though. I'm talking about hax abilities used by a 1-A entity/being (which works against other 1-A beings/entities, even those that are said to be superior to them). If that aforementioned 1-A with those hax abilities were to use against an another 1-A character from an another series, would that other 1-A character get affected because they don't have resistances listed in their profiles?

(Also, I don't even know how the power of 1-A characters are scaled to each other, based on what you've said about TLT being annihilated by a Masadaverse character by existing, even though said Masadaverse character is also 1-A. Is it because TLT only has High-Godly Regenerationn? If not, how do we even scale that?)

 

[Eganergo]

I know but the difference is like that. Like trying to hax a higher dimensional character even though it's 1A. No it won't affect the one with higher hierarchy.

I'm in class right now, so i can't explain much. You could try looking at some 1A matches from the versus thread.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I know but the difference is like that. Like trying to hax a higher dimensional character even though it's 1A. No it won't affect the one with higher hierarchy.

I'm in class right now, so i can't explain much. You could try looking at some 1A matches from the versus thread.

How do you even compare the hierarchies though, when the entire cosmologies and hierarchy functions can be different for each setting? What happens if there is a 1-A character that has a feat of affecting a 1-A character (with their hax abilities) in their own setting that is said to be much superior to them in their own hierarchy? Wouldn't that mean that 1-A characters from other settings gets affected because they lack resistances on their profiles?

Eh, I can wait for you to return, so that's fine.

 

[JackJoyce]

I know but the difference is like that. Like trying to hax a higher dimensional character even though it's 1A. No it won't affect the one with higher hierarchy.

I'm in class right now, so i can't explain much. You could try looking at some 1A matches from the versus thread.

>Trying to apply dimensional hierarchy to non dimensional characters

1-A fights should be philosophical debates instead we're stuck with my infinity bigga than yours

 

[Eganergo]

>Trying to apply dimensional hierarchy to non dimensional characters

1-A fights should be philosophical debates instead we're stuck with my infinity bigga than yours

The problem is we can't. How do you decide one of the 1A is qualitatively better than the other? It's like deciding My 2A multiverse is better then yours. What will happen is SMT infinite^infinite 2A vs other baseline to countless 2A.

The only way to decide 1A match is using semi-qualitative and quantitative difference like the scaling for character we always do. Of course this methode might not be the most accurate. Even so this is the most logical way to do it.

 

[Ravenous4th]

>most logical

>uses quantified numbers to compare beings beyond all definable metrics

>only way

I call bullshit.

There quite a few things you can discuss without going that route, you are just used to the circular logic that is "muh transcendence".

 

[Eganergo]

If you can find anyway to qualify 1A verse other than this then be my guest. I'm open to all suggestion even if the current way we do thing changes.

 

[DeathNoodles]

If you can find anyway to qualify 1A verse other than this then be my guest. I'm open to all suggestion even if the current way we do thing changes.

At that point, why not qualify 1-A characters based on their hax abilities (and resistances) compared to other 1-A characters? It certainly sounds better than just applying dimensional numerics (and logic) to entities that straight up transcends such.

 

[Ravenous4th]

Because you can't tell which "hax" is superior at all

The usual scale we use to quantify hax just doesn't work for 1-A.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Because you can't tell which "hax" is superior at all

The usual scale we use to quantify hax just doesn't work for 1-A.

Then just use whatever 1-A characters that has hax (that works against 1-As) and resistances to such, estimate those that have resistance to hax and those that don't. If that 1-A character doesn't have any resistance to a type of powerful 1-A hax, then they get affected. If they do have resistance to that type of powerful 1-A hax, then find an another type of 1-A hax that their 1-A enemy has that they can't resist. It doesn't have to be which hax is superior, just which ones has the hax abilities (and resistances) and which ones doesn't (so the 1-A ones that have hax abilities and resistances against the one that has no hax or no resistances, then the one that couldn't resist the hax would be the one that loses).

Hax, by this site's definition, doesn't depend on durability or statistics from what I can tell.

 

[Eganergo]

At that point, why not qualify 1-A characters based on their hax abilities (and resistances) compared to other 1-A characters? It certainly sounds better than just applying dimensional numerics (and logic) to entities that straight up transcends such.

Because hierarchy exist even in 1A. Example is Masadaverse.

All Hadou and Gudou are 1A. But shown by Shiori fight with satanael any of her hax is irrelevant in front of him. And it's not even 1 Taikyoku difference, they're in the same Hierarchy. In Masadaverse someone with 1 Taikyoku higher will absolutely transcend the one lower him by emanating his law. In fact it's not even possible for the lower taikyoku to exist if not for Marie coexistance Law.

Another example: Umineko no Naku Koro ni. They have many-many 1A, but there are many layer or realm. The human realm is 1A, the witch realm is 1A and the difference is like infinity infinite. To the witch realm, the human realm is nothing but fiction to them.

Another one is Warhammer 40,000: The 1A is only baseline to 5x stronger than baseline.

Now let say The Emperor of Mankind is to fight Bernkastel. Can you say Emperor hax which is close to baseline 1A would affect someone like Bernkastel who sees 1A realm as fiction even without the resistances?

 

[Ravenous4th]

To elaborate

The tiering system that we're currently using is based on projective geometry, we measure characters by their supposed "size", be it hax, attack potency or even durability.

However, Dimension.exe stopped working the moment you reach 1-A, that's why measuring "hax" is simply not an option

 

[DeathNoodles]

...Again, why try to compare hierarchies from one setting to another, when their entire cosmologies and hierarchies could be different?

If that 1-A character's hax is useless against an another 1-A character superior in their hierarchy, then that superior 1-A character gets resistances to those hax abilities listed in their profiles.

If a 1-A character in the higher hierarchy in one fictional setting doesn't have any resistances to hax due to the 1-A characters in the lowest hierarchies not showcasing such hax abilities (that can affect 1-A characters), then they should be affected by an another 1-A character with the hax ability which they haven't been shown to resist. If dimensional numerics and logic becomes useless for 1-A charcters, and all we have is fictional settings that uses some weird 1-A hierarchies (which can be different from series to series in terms of the workings of the hierarchies and cosmologies), then just make it all about hax and resistances (who has hax and resistances to such, and who doesn't). If all hax for 3D beings against other 3D beings are judged by who has the hax and who has the resistances, why not do the same for 1-A characters (since, at that point, they are beyond the concept of dimensions, thus we disregard "resisting hax via higher dimensions that 1-As already transcends" logic). Plus, unlike dimensional-restricted entities, physical stats becomes irrelevant, so just focus more on the Powers and Abilities section.

All the "my infinity is greater than your infinity, which is greater than this guy's infinity, which is also greater than that other guy's infinity" logic does is give people headaches.

 

[Ravenous4th]

You do realize that even "hax" is based on hierarchies, right?

You basically answered your own question.

 

[Eganergo]

Yeah it gives headaches but that's just how it is. It's NLF to say The Emperor of Mankind existance Erasure works on Shub-Niggurath who doesn't resist it at all. I support this though.

 

[DeathNoodles]

You do realize that even "hax" is based on hierarchies, right?

You basically answered your own question.

Then add the resistances of the hax abilities used in those 1-A characters profiles, and whatever hax abilities they should have (or shown to use), via being superior to the hax that the lesser 1-A characters in their own hierarchies have. As hierarchies and cosmologies can be entirely different for each setting, just keep it as a thing in the characters' own setting and not compare the hierarchies and cosmologies to other settings.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Yeah it gives headaches but that's just how it is. It's NLF to say The Emperor of Mankind existance Erasure works on Shub-Niggurath who doesn't resist it at all. I support this though.

Just have proof that his Existence Erasure can erase Type 1 concepts, that he can bypass True-Godly Regenerationn, can overcome Acausality type 5, etc.

That is, if we're no longer relying on the different hierarchies and cosmologies comparison logic.

 

[JackJoyce]

I liked the way Sandman31 explained here Mother Night and Father Time are the strongest 1-A in DC without resorting to power levels

 

[Eganergo]

I liked the way Sandman31 explained here Mother Night and Father Time are the strongest 1-A in DC without resorting to power levels

Because DC doesn't have a clear hierarchy. He literally explained the hierarcy of DC tho. How Those people is the higher one compared to the other excluding the hax whatsoever.

 

[Ravenous4th]

It's still the classic "muh transcendence" logic.

 

[JackJoyce]

Being more primal and fundamental to the existence of creation (as well as other 1-A) is the key here. A direct comparison between Mother and The Presence cannot be drawn

 

[First_Witch]

"Muh transcendence" is the only logical way to approach 1A battles. And 1A battles are illogical to begin with so meh.

Lets see. The reason why comparing hierachical positions is the only way (Or at least is the most popular way) is due to how 1A works. 1A is the tier with the biggest differences in the entire tiering system. The amount of infinites between 2 Outerversal character can reach another infinite, there can be multiple cardinals of infinite between them.

And those infinites are mostly described as the other being being insignificant or fiction the higher being. The difference isnt just a single infinite through dimensional superiority, its far bigger. And that difference stops hax in that tier from being relevant. Why debating existence erasur if you cant proof that said EE can actually reach that high up?

But alright, lets take a example. Your God emperor has a feat of erasing someone on any Outer gods level. But now youre running into the same problem you said was unnecessary. You had to proof that said being is actually on at least Nyarla's level. Youre comparing Hierachys all over again. Thats how you quantify a feat, but you will still run into the same problem.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Tbh I think I/O has the most realistic approach to 1-A battles where one creates an all powerful sword from nothing and tries to kill the other one before realizing that they are too powerful to die or to be destroyed lol

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>I/O has the most realistic approach to 1-A battles

Masada and his conceptual law clashes want a word with you :v