Kyogre's Roar downgrade

[Kepekley23]

It doesn't appear as if the beam disperses the storm. It literally erases it, straight up. You can even see and hear the "poof" sound effect and visual effect, and the storm just vanishing in succession.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Lugia's feat uses wattage, so it's still fine

Lugia's storm methodology is weird, tbh. I want to look at it a bit more when I get home.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Inb4 anyone weaker than Mega Rayquaza doesn't top tier 7.

(Like seriously, I'm half expecting you two to go and debunk every feat upwards to and including Arceus)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Well I mean if it's wrong it's wrong

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, sure. Like, that's how things should work.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I was actually analyzing Arceus so don't tempt me

But honestly if I have any questions about the CT I'll bring them to you before I make any thread.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Could not it only, Base Groudon and Base Kyogre be scaled to Jirachi?

 

[GyroNutz]

How so? Jirachi made and destroyed a fake Groudon/Kyogre, but that's it afaik

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Jirachi have a feat High 6-A

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah but how do Groudon + Kyogre scale to Jirachi?

 

[Kepekley23]

They don't.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So what's going to happen to the 6-A and 6-B legendaries?.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

They don't.

Yes, Base Groudon and Kyogre should continue to be High 6-A, because in the Pokémon movie 06, a Corrupted Groudon (which must be equal to Base Groudon) easily overpowered and destroyed Jirachi Doom Desire, that currently has a calc of 82 Petatons

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So what is going to happened here?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Sigurd Snake

I'm not sure. If what Enyu The Red Tower said is true about Corrupted Groudon overpowering Jirachi's Doom Desire is true then Kyogre and Groudon will stay High 6-A.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

The corrupted Groupon was made by Jirachi. Why would real Groupon scale?

 

[TriforcePower1]

I think he's referring to movie Groudon.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Real Groudon doesn't scale at all,it isn't Groudon except in appearance.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm still very against downgrading lower than High 6-A. Getting rid of 5-B? Sure. But with 4+ accepted calcs in the High 6-A range on OBD and several statements that can be interpreted there, I'm much more inclined to believe that Assalt is downplaying, no offense.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Cal

They need feats, Cal. We can't keep them at High 6-A because it feels right.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ohhhhhh is Dante vs Mewtwo a thing again?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Assalt. They have feats. Many of them. That's the thing. Again, no offense, but you keep on going through different interpretations to discredit them. Land/ocean creation, having all the power of the land/oceans at their disposal, storm dispersal, sun dispersal, etc. You keep on denying all of them.

@Schnee. Mewtwo's completely unaffected by this.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

what are the 4 high 6-A calcs?

 

[Kepekley23]

It seems like Jirachi's calc is assuming he is generating a literal sun-sized blast of thermal radiation from a glance, which seems exaggerated as all hell.

I'll look at it in depth as soon as I finish this SPN episode I'm watching.

 

[TriforcePower1]

what are the 4 high 6-A calcs?

KEKEKEKE

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Calm it down Cal. No one's ruffling your jammies today buddy.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Cal

Creating continents and oceans over an undefined period of time isn't High 6-A. Having the full force of nature behind you, even if 100% literal, isn't High 6-A. Until instant continental destruction is shown, those are Country feats at best.

 

[Kepekley23]

And their legend feats are not High 6-A. I'm pretty sure I've already shown you why they aren't even close to that. They were spread out over extremely long battles. The feat took "endless clashes" in ORAS lore.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Kep. No they didn't and no they weren't. For one, completely neuters the entire plot of R/S/OR/AS if it took "endless clashes", along with other things.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, I've explained why the dispersal feats are iffy. In both cases, they disappear with a "pop" and just deflate instead of dispersing, as if they were erased.

 

[Kepekley23]

Nope. Delta Episode quote that can be found within the Sky Pillar:

""Thousands of years ago, in the primal age long lost, the world was overflowing with natural energy. Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre fought over that energy in endless, furious clashes. In the face of Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's great power, people could do nothing. Their only choice was to watch as disaster upon disaster swept over them. It was in such a time that a great many meteoroids poured from the darkness of space, from a place higher even than the heavens. And the meteoroids fell in their multitude upon a waterfall that had long been home to a tribe of Dragon-type-Pokémon users...""

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That has literally nothing to do with the creation of the land and sea, but the cataclysm alluded to. Especially given how the land was created millions of years, not thousands. Furthermore, if this is the situation that created the continents, then why are people on land?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

~800 Petatons

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, I've explained why the dispersal feats are iffy. In both cases, they disappear with a "pop" and just deflate instead of dispersing, as if they were erased.

Except (and correct me if I'm wrong (I'm being serious, not sarcastic)), that's not how storm dispersal work.

 

[Kepekley23]

Because Groudon didn't create all the continents? Almost every single entry reads "expanded". This is a feat that is spread out over long ages of fighting, to say otherwise requires proof that isn't available anywhere else.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Groudon has appeared in mythology as the creator of the land. It sleeps in magma underground and is said to make volcanoes erupt on awakening.
	~ Emerald Pokedex​

The burden of proof is on you to prove that expanding the continents came from a result of the fight with Kyogre, because what you posted is irrelevant. The burden of proof is on me to prove that it created continents.

 

[Kepekley23]

X states that Groudon expanded the continents by evaporating water and that Kyogre expanded the seas by bringing on heavy storms. So neither of their feats are High 6-A. This is only splitting hairs.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

800 Petatons is High 6-A, dude. Kyogre's storm feats were also calc'd at High 6-A. Because storms rotate.

 

[Kepekley23]

And that calc assumes Groudon vaporizes all the world's water. If he did that, there wouldn't even be water for Kyogre to create his storms. Not only that, it assumes this is done instantaneously. So it's wrong anyway.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Why wouldn't Primal Kyogre's creation of the oceans be quantifiable? In Pokémon Generations, Kyogre instantly creates a massive worldwide storm that threatens to drag down the entire surface of the planet, and is treated as imminent danger.