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Kumagawa's All Fiction

Well terms like "infinitely above" for dimensions are, again, just simplified for the purposes of easier understanding them and to make it easier to tier characters.

Technically the correct term is space-time, not space and time because they are connected. That's the reason you can literally move and why time is linear not a circle, or a swirly, or Jeremy Bearimy, because the universe is expanding. That's why Superman flew opposite of the Earth's rotation to turn back time, scientist have speculated that if the universe began to "shrink" that time would flow in reverse. But that's a different topic.

Point is 4D, or time hax, is just as any other hax. Nulling it or resisting it does not equal that you can resist an AP punch millions of times stronger than you have demonstrated.
 
There is a sigificant difference between time hax and hax that can interact with time.

Time hax messes with the 4th dimension, but it's not 4 dimensional, it's 1 dimensional.

Whereas hax that can interact with space and matter normally, but can interact with time too, is 4 dimensional as in can interact with everything up to the 4th dimensional.

Same as how interacting with "height or depth" is 1 dimensional (even though it's interacting with the 3rd dimension) because it's still just a line, a 1 dimensonal line. It's when you can interact with all 3 dimensions (width, height and depth) that it becomes 3 dimensional.
 
No, not really.

You do realize that moving your hand falls under 4 dimensional right? Because time is required in order for your hand to move from position A to position B.
 
Not really. That is due to the laws of moving and speed. Speed is a form of measuring movement. But speed requires both time and space to work together. Without space there can be no movement (even if there is time) and without time there can be no movement (even if there is space). It's not that the 4th dimension affects all dimensions below it. It just freezes time, but time is a necessary part of "motion" without speed nothing can "move" and is by consequence freezed.

@Og

Moving your hand is 3dimensional not 4 dimensional. By moving your hand you're manipulating space, or in other words you're changing the placement of things around you by force. If you don't do anything nothing will change (assuming only you're allowed to move things). However time is not yours to control. Time will move forward whether you do anything or not. You moving your hand happens because time allows you to do so. Time moves always forward. If you were to wave your hand and go 5 sec back in time, that is 4 dimensional because you are causing a change in space "and" time. You moving your hand is not you "changing something in time". You are not affecting time at all. The flow of time is the same.
 
In order to make any kind of movement you need to move through a 4 dimensional axis, otherwise you wouldn't have any movement.

I don't see your point with everything else you said. I don't see how that has anything to do with anything.
 
That means nothing. Time affects the lower dimensions because without time motion itself would be impossible. Speed is a law of space. A physical law. As you said yourself without time it includes time. Without it, it isn't possible. Time is part of the speed equation.
 
Yes ofc but you're not causing the "movement" in the 4 dimensional axis. The way you put it is saying "time moves because i move" or "time is moving cus i say so". No, you're are moving cus time moves, you are restricted by time, not controling it.

Im just pointing out the "handwave is 4D" point. It is not, it moves in a 4D axis (time), but not causing a 4D change.
 
Ok? That still doesn't somehow equal that resisting a hax somehow = I resist everything.

How does resisting a causality hax = resisting a fireball to the face?
 
Ogbunabali said:
Ok? That still doesn't somehow equal that resisting a hax somehow = I resist everything.
How does resisting a causality hax = resisting a fireball to the face?
Click to expand...
Where did this come from?
 
You have been arguing that because Iihiko nulled a time hax that = nulling every single 3D and 4D hax/AP in existence.
 
To put it simply, Time Manipulation, in general, is 1-D since Time is only one dimension or 1-D. Space-Time Manipulation would be 4-D, on average, since it is manipulating the three spatial dimensions (3-D) plus (+) the temporal dimension (1-D); hence, 4-D.

From what noticed, abilities like Causality Manipulation and Fate Manipulation can give Space-Time Manipulation. Some advance forms of Time Manipulation can be 4-D.

I talk to @DontTalkDT here to get the suggestion.
 
He didn't null time hax. He nulled 4D causality manpulation with his "power Null" that can work on AP, hax and literally everything else that he doesn't recognize.

This power null proved to be 4D by nullifying several 4D things (which upscale from All Fiction). So it obviously nullifies 3D things, because it nullified something infinitely greater.

But it doesn't nullify every 4D hax. Idk why that came up.
 
Literally means nothing. And nulling a temporal ability means nothing with regarding everything else.

That's not how it works. In order to get the "infinitely higher" that you cling on to, he needs to do it on a higher spatial dimension not our temporal dimension. Not to mention that even if it was "infinitely higher" that still wouldn't give him nulling capacities of infinite 3D, just that specific hax.

If it worked like that, does me resisting a temporal ability suddenly give me immunity to every 3D ability ever? How about if I nulled a fireball to the face, does that suddenly give me null to everything below that fireball regardless of what it is, or it somehow gives me resistance to all of it's chemical composition or something? No.
 
By our standards 4D is still infinitely higher than 3D. Hence the tiering system.

You keep missing the point. Both points:

1. He didn't "resist it", he sort of nullified it (can break powers) (there is also the fact that skills were stated to be "unable to reach him" so if a 4D couldn't reach it, gl with 3D). Do not mistake the 2 please, it's very important.

2. Not necessarily. As i said basic time hax is 1D as it cannot affect space. It can just stop movement by stoping time (since movement is done in space and time by nulling time there can be no movement), nothing else. Its 4th dimension 1 dimensional ability. Where as All Fiction is not time hax. It is a form of reality warping (causality manip to be specific), that works on space AND time therefore making it 4 dimensional.

But virtually speaking yes. If you have a power null that can nullify 4D powers it can nullify every 3D power, via potency. If it's mechanics do not allow it to nullify anything else, then it will be specific to that type of power (Iihiko's null mechanics have let his abilities work on what i think are all abilities in the wiki and more).
 
Your second point is wrong because the temporal dimension of time is not infinitely beyond the 3rd dimension. The 4th spatial dimension can be said to be infinitely beyond the 3rd spatial dimension.

Are you seriously still arguing affecting time doesn't affect space?

I suppose your other points would be good if you weren't assuming time is stacked on top of 3D and is infinitely beyond infinite 3D.

Theoritically speaking nullifying specific abilities means nullifying every ability because of lower dimensionality. If you can nullify an ability that is affects 4D space. You could nullfiy abilities infinitely lower in scale because they're literally infinitely easier to nullify, because of the potency of nullification. Theoritically. This may not be the case for some fictions.

But affecting 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension shouldn't be treated 4D spatially.

The only reason we treat time as the 4th dimension beyond the 3rd dimension is because of specific fiction such as DC where they treat it this way. If Medeka Box establishes a cosmology like this then it'd be fine but you cannot assume it has just for the sake of upgrading an abilitiy.
 
The reason "we treat time as the 4th dimension". Yes indeed. By our standards 4D is infinitely above 3D. We do not give ever verse its own tiering system.
 
Considering the other thread going on at the moment, I think it's extremely important we come to a consensus as to how we treat abilities such as this because we have one side arguing for essentially us treating 3-D+1-D abilities like how they would work IRL vs how they work within the constraints of the tiering system.
 
This is not the right thread. Everyone agrees on 4D All Fiction. Medaka Box threads are not the place to change the basis of the entire tiering system of the wiki.

Someone should close this. This is already derailing.
 
They have been updated. I just don't wanna create confusion in Medaka threads by arguing how the tiering system works.

@Cal

If your "problems" are the same as Og's then close this thread and make a thread about changing our tiering system.
 
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