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Kriemhild Gretchen vs The Emperor of Mankind

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It is if there's a 7 votes difference and most people likely aren't going to read what we're going to say when other info are given

My opinion is that in vs debates before accepting the FRAs the debate between the two sides should have been ended before, and not to accept FRAing to the first comment without any debate first
 
@RKGenki you do know that you guys have been debating for quite some time right? We haven't started voting based on the first thing said in the thread
 
@glassman there are missing info which might change the outcome of this (aka her law manip being already 4-D from the start or starting at 3-D)
 
I mean at worst, we still have a grace period of 24 hours, so there should still be plenty of time for evidence to be provided if necessary.

And really, even if the thread gets concluded, there's nothing stopping someone from coming in after the fact and debunking what's been said if it's wrong at all. If I could do it to a thread that was over a year old, then I'm sure someone else can do the same with this one if it's possible.
 
@rebuble something similar almost happened in threads I was involved in more than once (and one was even closed for this reason), so it's not something that wouldn't happen (expecially with PMMM involved)
 
So uh, mind pointing me where it was stated Holy Manip didn't work in this thread? Ignoring the fact that this thread would be closed normally for the fact that you guys are arguing for stuff not on the profile, a rule we forgot apparently. A lot of times for PMMM, interestingly enough.

@Azzy

"All of which the Emperor technically has some level of resistance to on a ridiculously higher scale that UKG can put out. Holy Manipulation is probably the one thing so far you could argue him not resisting to some degree due to specifics, and even then that's ignoring psykers' inherent power null/blocking abilities.

I can assure you this isn't "who shoots first". It's "can UKG survive long enough without getting erased and thus turn the results of the battle around"."

I don't see how Power Null/blocking abilities are comparable to Holy Manip? Or perhaps I'm misreading that?

And I can assure you that UKG can make it a "who shoots first".
 
@SD

About holy manip it seemed something along the lines of "he burns but his consciousness remains"

Consciousness that here should be 4-D with sone infinite-D powers from what I got.

If you can confirm me that UKG's law manip is 4-D from the start I can confirm my vote for her as she'd have a really slight edge in a "who shoot first" thanks to her passive holy manip giving her that slight advantage due to it distracting him.

Also I remember reading somewhere that for his precog he needs to focus first, and even then he need to react to his precog and think so 2 actions, while UKG already has the knowledge via it being part of her nigh omniscience
 
Honestly I completely forgot about this thread.

Also about the Emperor precog here but Ahzek a pysker is who is no where near the Emperor level can do this with his precog

"He felt all sense fall away. Everything became distant, just another pattern spinning through the quiet stillness. He could see the possibilities of the next nanosecond, multiply and collapse. He saw the Rubricae climbing over the walls, the molten stone squashing beneath their feet. He saw Astraeos fall. He saw a figure of fire waiting at the end of a billion branching futures. He was the storm, the still point around which the warp turned." - Ahriman: Sorcerer

Also while that Holy Manipulation might hurt it sure as hell not slowing him down by any means necessary. Once again the only thing here that has a reasonable chance of actually stopping him is law manipulation but that's basically a form of reality warping so there's an arguement to be made here.
 
I'm not asking how good is his precog, I'm asking if it's true that he needs to focus first

About the second point... what? By that logic having resistance to reality warping = resisting 95% of powers in fiction as all of them can be seen as a form of reality warping

Resistance to reality warping means nothing without feats of resisting that specific type of RW, and even then it's law manip we're talkong about
 
Also pretty sure that feeling that kind of pain would make him hesitate even for a slight microsecond, enough for UKG to act before him
 
@Thatoneguy That pre-cog is pretty weak compared to the level UKG is on with her awareness, so I would assume what Azzy said is probably based on a better showing.

@RK I see, but wait, isn't his consciousness only that level due to being in the Warp?

Her law manip level is unknown I believe, though given she retains all of her 2-A resistances even as a 5-B, it would probably be 4-D.
 
I don't know, I was going by what Azzy said

Well, in that case I confirm my vote for UKG due to my reasons

If needed I'll make a tldr
 
SomebodyData said:
@Thatoneguy That pre-cog is pretty weak compared to the level UKG is on with her awareness, so I would assume what Azzy said is probably based on a better showing.
Click to expand...
I mean that precog came from someone who is quite literally infinitely weaker than him so yeah of course that precog wouldn't be all that impressive.
 
Then why bring it up? Ignoring the fact that being literally infinitely weaker would mean the person who did it is 2-D.
 
Cause if what Azzy said on the yukari vs Ahzek thread than he could see his own fate an foresee his opponents abilities if what azzy said is true he said in that thread true

Saikou The Lewd King said:
Question. Does Azhek's precog let him see alternate futures? Like, would he be able to instantly see which of his attacks would be able to bypass Yukari's Low-Godly? If not she could have a chance with attacking before he can pull off one of those moves. Otherwise, rip.
Click to expand...


Yeah. Third and sixth sentences.

Link to thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/148957

And remember that Ahzek is infinitely weaker than the GEOM so I have no doubt that his Precog is greater than Ahzek
 
The Emperor can see the consequences of his foes's future actions in a heartbeat.
 
@Matt if you mean his high 1-B EE she can't.


If you mean being erased down to conceptual level, she regenerated after being erased conceptually from nonexistence on a 4-D scale (she was already nonexistent).
 
Kepekley23 said:
The Emperor can see the consequences of his foes's future actions in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
How does that translate to "know exactly what's needed to do to get rid of the opponent?"
 
It translates to "knows what she will do", and then leads to her getting erased by his sword.
 
RKGenki said:
How does that translate to "know exactly what's needed to do to get rid of the opponent?"
Click to expand...
Well if you read the qoutes I provide for Ahriman who is weaker than the GEOM then you would see that Ahriman can basically "know exactly what's needed to do to get rid of the opponent" and I'm quoting Azzy here so yeah
 
@Kep I'm sure that knowing what she will do it's not the same as knowing what's needed to do, and from what I know he doesn't always lead with his EE

Btw for him now it's

Time for an heartbeat + time to react + think, all of this while being burnt by her passive holy manip

For her it's

Already knows all future possibilities on a multiversal scale (as in infinite universes) > think

I'll let you decide what's faster
 
<Already knows all future possibilities

That's exactly what Emprah does tho.
 
Um you do know that GEOM precog would tell him that he would need to EE her right? And I already provided quotes and a statement from Azzy that places Ahzeks precog at "know exactly what's needed to do to get rid of the opponent" level and he is weaker than the GEOM
 
No you're giving contraddicting statements

One side says that "he knows what she will do" and "he needs the time of an heartbeat"

The other says "he already knows from the start" and "he knows exactly what he needs to do"

What's the right one now?
 
SomebodyData said:
I don't see how Power Null/blocking abilities are comparable to Holy Manip? Or perhaps I'm misreading that?

And I can assure you that UKG can make it a "who shoots first".
Click to expand...
I think you are. I'm not saying "Holy Manipulation and Power Null are similar abilities". I'm saying that even assuming that isn't something the Emperor resists, which I am doing because it's not on his profile, the Emperor has the ability to say "No." and oppose/counter the ability.

Then please provide evidence for such, because as I've stated, the materium Emperor operating on a 3-D/4-D level does not mean his resistances cap there, and I have not seen anything provided that is in the realm of "The Emperor has zero ways of dealing with that".
 
@Kep you must have forgotten that part of her ability being passive. Also already knowing > knowing in a heartbeat, though it was already decided it didn't matter given their levels of knowing the future.
 
RKGenki said:
No you're giving contraddicting statements

One side says that "he knows what she will do" and "he needs the time of an heartbeat"

The other says "he already knows from the start" and "he knows exactly what he needs to do"

What's the right one now?
Click to expand...
I'm not actually, you're receiving different views from different people

Please help me understand, what does UKG have over this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Eldrad_Ulthran:_The_High_Farseer_of_Ulthwé
 
@Azzy ...But its passive? Not sure how he can say no if it already happens by the time he responds.

Passive holy manip that would kill him? He can deal with that before it kills him?

Also, what can he do as consciousness outside the warp?
 
@Azzy would help if they stopped using it as such.

@Kep how? By the time he reacts it would have already done its job given its passive?
 
SomebodyData said:
@Azzy ...But its passive? Not sure how he can say no if it already happens by the time he responds.
Passive holy manip that would kill him? He can deal with that before it kills him?

Also, what can he do as consciousness outside the warp?
Click to expand...
Because he's doing so from the second it affects him? Psykers all have inherent defenses, and you are talking about a man who is his psychic presence. The Emperor does not start off being affected by a power. That power is going to have to go through his defenses, regardless.

See above. I think this kinda answers the same thing.

Everything his material form can do, such as project a multi-light year beam of sheer psychic power across the galaxy.
 
The reason that Magnus didn't instantly reality-warp either Russ of Guilliman in their fights is resistances.

The Emperor's Resistances >>>>>>>>> His Primarchs'.
 
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