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Kriemhild Gretchen vs The Emperor of Mankind

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I, Newendigo of the CDJ association, predict the next events:

>Several dozen of FRAs appears in the thread.

>Several dozen of people celebrate for the supposed Monster's dead.

>One perso and his faction comes with a ungodly rebutal.

>A great war starts between the twon factions.

>At the end, everything gets closed.
 
Newendigo said:
I, Newendigo of the CDJ association, predict the next events:

>Several dozen of FRAs appears in the thread.

>Several dozen of people celebrate for the supposed Monster's dead.

>One perso and his faction comes with a ungodly rebutal.

>A great war starts between the twon factions.

>At the end, everything gets closed.
Click to expand...
So who are you voting for?
 
Well, since we're voting, i'm voting UKG

Pretty sure that him being completely burnt every time he comes back via his regen would give her long enough to then rewrite the multiverse and leave him in nonexistence with a law that blocks him there while being herself multiverse sized (and at least immeasurable in speed)

Worth pointing out that just feeling her presence is enough for him to be affected, so he can't even try to snipe from afar
 
RKGenki said:
Well, since we're voting, i'm voting UKG

Pretty sure that him being completely burnt every time he comes back via his regen would give her long enough to then rewrite the multiverse and leave him in nonexistence with a law that blocks him there while being herself multiverse sized (and at least immeasurable in speed)

Worth pointing out that just feeling her presence is enough for him to be affected, so he can't even try to snipe from afar
Click to expand...
Even though that through out this entire thread we have basically gone through almost every single resistance he has is way above the paygrade of UKG hax potency and the fact that he could still operate even without a physical body and still EE her
 
She has law manip in base too, imposing a law that says "you can't exist there" at least on a universal scale (Idk its extent in base, it could even be already multiversal in scale afaik) will also help in stalling him long enough.

If you're talking about the high 1-B essence, I think that's restricted?

Question, how would he react to being enclosed in a pocket-reality like barrier? Similar to that of witches, but she only entraps him inside.
 
The Emperor's High 1-B essence isn't the only part of the Emperor that's metaphysical. Guilliman even directly experiences the true metaphysical presence of the materium Emperor when he meets him in his throne room in Dark Imperium.

The materium Emperor being tier 4 doesn't mean his resistance caps at that level. Otheriwse Chaos would absolutely shit on him.

"Question, how would he react to being enclosed in a pocket-reality like barrier? Similar to that of witches, but she only entraps him inside."

If he really had to get out? Probably just leave. He doesn't like travelling through Warp portals, for obvious reasons, but he very easily can.
 
RKGenki said:
She has law manip in base too, imposing a law that says "you can't exist there" at least on a universal scale (Idk its extent in base, it could even be already multiversal in scale afaik) will also help in stalling him long enough.

If you're talking about the high 1-B essence, I think that's restricted?

Question, how would he react to being enclosed in a pocket-reality like barrier? Similar to that of witches, but she only entraps him inside.
Click to expand...
Yeah thing like here Holy and law Manipulation I wouldn't contest (well law I would contest but I am not a warhmmer expert so yeah) but wouldn't saying you can't exist here basically be EE or something along those lines. And you still gotta take into consideration that the GEOM would probably just EE her right off the bat.

If you mean the resistances then I am pretty sure that would also apply to his Material form or else a bunch of Greater Daemons would have a fun time with him.

Not sure about how he would react to a witch barrier you gotta ask a warhammer expert about that.

Edit: got ninja'd
 
But if you were talking about him operating without a physical body than yes that can still apply to this fight. Cuss of the whole "powering up a beacon of raw power for 10,000 years of incap"
 
Now I'm gonna list a series of abilities that weren't brought up before

-limited passive luck manip

-fate manip which prevents her from dying which possibly works on multiversal scale acausals

-erasing his evil intent along with his personality

-being entrapped in a book

-becoming a copy "truer than the original" (kinda NLFish)

why is it so hard to search through magi reco's megucas' abilities, missing something like 30 megucas' powers as I can't find them

Edit: I'm sure he has, but has he ever affected something nonexistent with his abilities? Mainly the EE
 
  • Passive luck manip and fate manip
Probability and fate-based abilities are even available to relatively fodder psykers. The Emperor has contended with the very embodiment of change, whose webs of causality span infinite "interleaved universes", at least one of which (the materium that we know) contains countless higher-dimensions.

  • Erasing evil intent and personality
I don't think wanting to erase UKG is evil intent, and his "personality" is a lie fabricated by an incomprehensible force, anyway.

  • Being entrapped in a book
If this was anyone but the Emperor, I probably wouldn't just say "portals out of there", but in this case, he probably does.

  • Becoming a copy "truer than the original"
I have no idea what that would even entail, here.
 
RKGenki said:
Edit: I'm sure he has, but has he ever affected something nonexistent with his abilities? Mainly the EE
Click to expand...
Explanation of Tzeentch. Applies to the other gods and daemons of the Warp.

"There was a god of lies in the Warp. There could be no greater power. Congealed from the deceit of the universe, older than reality, Raezael could only become part of it. It was Tzeentch, and yet it was nothing, for this purest manifestation of Chaos was so infinitely mutable that it could never truly be fixed as anything. Its very existence was a lie, because Tzeentch could not exist. From this paradox flowed such power that the universe could only have one rightful ruler, and it was Tzeentch.

The concept of Tzeentch was an appalling thing, one that filled Alaric with disgust, but Raezael's devotion to the being mingled with that disgust, the resulting emotion utterly alien to Alaric's mind, a perversion of everything it meant to be human.

Raezael's understanding grew. Tzeentch desired power, and yet Tzeentch also desired the absence of power, anarchy and confusion, because for Tzeentch to desire any one thing would be to deny its very existence." - Hammer of Daemons


Unrelated, but might as well also show off the metaphysical side of the materium Emperor, as well.

"There was the wizened corpse surrounded by banks of groaning machinery, His sword upon His knee. Sorrow suffused everything. The sacrifice required to keep the Emperor alive sickened the primarch. If He were alive. He appeared dead. Guilliman had expected nothing. But He spoke. With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.

A creation. Not a son. The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor's words burned him. What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid. The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp. Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp. While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor's will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman's eyes. The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all. Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor's humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor's light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally ― finally ― Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him." - Dark Imperium
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
  • Erasing evil intent and personality
I don't think wanting to erase UKG is evil intent, and his "personality" is a lie fabricated by an incomprehensible force, anyway.
Click to expand...
I mean, from her perspective it kinda is

For the NFLish copy, I'm not sure either about what it entails, dunno if she copies resistances as well, if she had AoC's powers I'd probably say yes, but without them idk.

Thinking about it, she has various power mimicry, but doubt they're gonna do anything useful there.

What about her spamming duplication? Would erasing one erase them all?
 
I don't know if this unfettered force pretending to be a man is going to have reservations about that.

Can she copy abilities that are multiple (infinite) degrees of infinity beyond her scale in potency?

On the subject of duplication; remember when I posted that quote where Vulkan essentially erased a metaphysical entity in a higher dimension by doing the equivalent of smashing a hologram it was projecting with the hammer the Emperor had him forge? Stuff like that makes me think duplication won't help much.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Can she copy abilities that are multiple (infinite) degrees of infinity beyond her scale in potency?
Click to expand...
Surely not, she can copy up to 4-D abilities

What do you mean with the first sentence?

Ok, duplication is out of the table (I don't remember if her other means of duplication create complete independent copies, gonna wait for SD for that)
 
@Azzy

Lol. I wonder if I should throw Amon at her. Surely she can't take the Mind Manip of destiny.
 
@Assalt I dare you to try

@Azzy it works on witches, doubt him not being "human" anymore would do something about it
 
@RKGenki

Wouldn't be a super fun match. It's either "I can take your mind manip so I win via everything else" or "I win because I just enslaved your mind or turned it into a literal potato."
 
@Assalt is his mind manip passive? If not he gets destroyed by her doing nothing (and the passives still work even if mindhaxed)
 
RKGenki said:
@Azzy it works on witches, doubt him not being "human" anymore would do something about it
Click to expand...
It's not about him not being human.

It's about him being an abstract force of will whose personality and relationships seem to have been fabrications.
 
@RKGenki

It's thought, not passive, so I guess he loses. This character is busted as crap.

Anyway back to the battle at hand...
 
@Azzy I mean, he still has an intent right? If the higher dimensional consciousness is restricted I'd say it works
 
He has intent, but said intent might as well be part of his very being. Lesser intent he may seem to have is a facade.

Which part of his consciousness do you mean when you say "higher-dimensional"? Because the part of his consciousness that exists on a higher-dimensional level is restricted, but his normal consciousness can still think and comprehend higher-dimensional states of existence/things on a higher-dimensional level.
 
Don't see how that prevents it from working

I mean the consciousness' dimensionality itself, if it is 3-D it works, comprehending higher dimensional constructs win't help in that case
 
Because it's like trying to alter this fundamental force that is superior to UKG itself at that point in time as opposed to just changing a stronger opponent's mind.

I don't know how I'd really define it, since it's metaphysical consciousness that by its very nature doesn't exactly have a direct dimensional structure. It's operating on a 4-D level but with certain abilities that are ∞-D in scale.
 
So basically it's 4-D with some infinite-D powers right?

In that case her becoming 4-D would get rid of the issues (and if her law manip is already 4-D when she's 3-D it could keep him outside the multiverse)

Gonna wait SD to see if her law manip is 4-D when she's 5-B
 
After reading all the arguments, I'm gonna have to side with the Emperor FRA. I may be able to be swayed in my vote if more info is brought into the equation, though.

I'm still pleasantly surprised that this turned out to be fair.
 
If you're unsure you should wait for SD to see if her law manip is 4-D in base, as it might be the deciding factor due to his consciousness being 4-D as explained by azzy (not counting the high 1-B one)
 
That's why I hate FRAing

The debate isn't finished, could you please wait for it to end before voting?
 
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