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Kriemhild Gretchen vs The Emperor of Mankind

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Also, just for fun. Remember when we mentioned trading blows on multiple planes of existence simultaneously. This is an example of it:

The very spire of the Pyramid of Photep burst asunder, a peal of thunder that shook the world, rippling out in the wake of its demise, and Magnus descended to the battlefield borne by a crackling pillar of black lightning, there to confront his brother. As the two Primarchs confronted one another, the tempest that surrounded the centre of Tizca intensified - many accounts speak of sibilant whispers heard by all present, urging them to deeds they would not later speak of - and the thunderous wind tore through many of the tottering buildings and monuments that surrounded the battlefield. Some accounts, including that of Vigil Commander Krole, speak of quiet words exchanged by the two Primarchs, but all agree that the battle began with the roar of the Wolf King. Of the first blow dealt, none can be sure whose it was, for such was the skill of the combatants that of those present perhaps only Valdor could follow the interplay of golden axe and silver blade. Russ' raw fury and patient cruelty met the psychic might and subtle skill of Magnus, and all in their path was torn apart, be it the sturdy architecture of Tizca or the ceramite plated battle tanks of the Astartes. Those Legion warriors who sought to intervene in aid of their lord were annihilated before the Primarchs were even aware of their presence, and even the Custodes dared not interfere in such a battle. All about them was chaos, the frantic madness of battle and the unnatural reality-warping effect of the tempest - for as the Primarch Magnus unleashed his full power, it ripped apart the veil between dimensions and set loose those creatures that dwelt within the aether.
The two Primarchs tore at each other with blade and will, never giving an inch, both made for war in the gene-forges of Terra to be unconquerable. Yet the Emperor had not created all His sons equal - to each He had granted primacy of some aspect of war He had deemed worthy of inclusion in His Legions. Magnus was a supreme general, crafted to lead, to inspire and to divine the weakness of his foes - a master of that detached and emotionless state of war long practised by Strategoi and tacticians since ancient times. Though no less the general, Russ was a far different beast - forged upon a harsher anvil for a more brutal and personal degree of war. His was the blood-red fury of necessity and dark ages lost to savagery, the final resolve of a killer loosed when there was no other option but utter destruction.
Here in the midst of Tizca's ruins with the aether whirling about them as a world died, its armies scattered and blood in the air, there was no creature born better suited to triumph in such a hell than the Wolf King, though Magnus would not be brought low without grievous cost. This was a contest in which he was perhaps always destined to be the victor. Despite that his brother burned him and smashed him down time and again with his arcane power, Russ rose up once more, bloody but undaunted. Minutes or hours after they had begun, for time itself had begun to fray at the fury of their battle at the centre of the aether tempest, Magnus, Russ' savage wolf-kin snapping at his heels, the Silent Sisters, by some accounts, cutting into the arch Sorcerer's control over his vaunted powers, faltered for but a moment and his brother cast him down, the final blow different to each who viewed it-for some the stroke of a blade ended it, to others the breaking of the Cyclops' back. It was a defeat played out across an infinity of existences with the same result. Leman Russ stood triumphant, wreathed in the wounds inflicted by his brother, his role as the Emperor's wrath once again fulfilled, and in its wake a storm of blinding light emanated from the sealed and embattled pyramid beyond Magnus' silent and torn corpse. When the blaze o light had faded, there was no sign to be found of any who had once occupied it, nor of the body of Magnus.
 
WH40K combines the deathless action of Shonen with the good writing of [most] drama novels, and the eccentricity of Harry Potter, I would say to those who are trying to get into it.

I myself have only gotten into the background lore, doe.
 
WH40K = Epic Classical Mythology + Star Wars Space Opera + Tolkien Fantasy + Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror + Nightmarish Gothic Aesthetic, all put into a blender alongside crack and steroids.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
WH40K = Epic Classical Mythology + Star Wars Space Opera + Tolkien Fantasy + Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror + Nightmarish Gothic Aesthetic, all put into a blender alongside crack and steroids.
And don't forget about the LSD
 
Sooo after reading all arguments above... Isnt this a stomp? Legit the only way for Kriemhild to win is becoming 2-A and APslap him, something that wont happen. Big G on the other hand just need to think fast and hard to oneshot.
 
WH40K: everything is terrible, everyone is going to die and you can't do anything about it.

PMMM: Don't trust the cat-thing.

SCP: The slow realization that you live in a world full of Eldritch Abominations and monstrous higher-dimensional beings that butcher reality for kicks.
 
First Witch said:
Sooo after reading all arguments above... Isnt this a stomp? Legit the only way for Kriemhild to win is becoming 2-A and APslap him, something that wont happen. Big G on the other hand just need to think fast and hard to oneshot.
I think even Azzy said somewhere above that if she turn into her 2-A form the GEOM still has a chance of winning
 
I think even Azzy said somewhere above that if she turn into her 2-A form the GEOM still has a chance of winning

Thus turning her winning chance further 0... This is a textbook definition of a stomp :/
 
Thatoneguy78 said:
I think even Azzy said somewhere above that if she turn into her 2-A form the GEOM still has a chance of winning
I don't think I said this?

I mean, he probably still would, but it'd be a significantly smaller chance (as in it would rely on UKG somehow ******* everything up).

The same way UKG can win before becoming too powerful, but it's significantly smaller, and thus it's better to try and play it safe. Which I don't know how likely an entity such as her is likely to do.
 
Holyhotsauce said:
Akame Ga Kill: everything is terrible, everyone is going to die and you can't do anything about it.
Elfen Lied: Don't trust the cat-thing.

Cthulhu Mythos: The slow realization that you live in a world full of Eldritch Abominations and monstrous higher-dimensional beings that butcher reality for kicks.
FTFY
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Holyhotsauce said:
WH40K: everything is terrible, everyone is going to die and you can't do anything about it.
PMMM: Don't trust the cat-thing.

Cthulhu Mythos: The slow realization that you live in a world full of Eldritch Abominations and monstrous higher-dimensional beings that butcher reality for kicks.
FTFY
skub
 
I'll never understand why we keep making Madoka Magica matches when literally 90% of their losses get outdated anyway.

Redundant thread is redundant.
 
<Making them lose

<Guy who made this is one of the biggest MM fans on this site.

Uh huh, right.
 
Doesnt change the fact that several people in past threads wanted them to losse.

And I'm certanly sure that this guy didn't expected UKG to actually losse...
 
@Gar because people underestimate the info in the Production Notes. Like we only have 20 pages translated and out of those pages we got Non-Existant UKG with all her new hax, 5-C Walpurgis, Life Absorption for every witch, info that makes Akuma Homura even weirder, etc.

@OP and I guess everyone, want me to close the thread? From what I understand it won't be added though (Given, that apparently EOM happens to have the majority of his resistances not on his page. Like Curse Manipulation, Power Nullification, Age Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation and basically every ability UKG and the four chaos gods have. Plus he needs to have the "possibly" part of his acausality removed.)
 
@SD

All abilities you've mentioned, specifically in the way used by UKG, are subsets of resistances already linked on the Emperor's page, which have been explained in extreme detail throughout this thread.

If you want things to be clarified, which I do as well, that is fine, but we're not just sweeping the match under the rug.
 
"Extreme Resistance to Magic, Possession, Mind Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Reality Warping, and Existence Erasure,"

That's... definitely not the case Azzy.
 
>Magic, Reality Warping, and Existence Erasure

Virtually everything that has been argued for UKG here falls under one of these three. If someone wants to assume the most basic, bare-bones meanings of these for the Emperor, in a verse where he can hold off the literal embodiment of change and magic, then that is on them. But it has been strenuosly explained, here.

Even for resistances we assume he doesn't have, we covered Power Nullification, which is already listed.

Like I said, it should be clarified, but it is not something that is entirely non-existent.
 
They would fall under either "magic" or "reality warping" by what 40k considers it, though.

Even if we assume they don't, there is still the power nullification and inherent defenses angle, which was also covered repeatedly.
 
...What do you think Curses are, exactly?

Yes, but it would still mean she can affect him, so any ability that can one-shot him, would. But assuming you're correct, then what can UKG do to win?
 
SomebodyData said:
...What do you think Curses are, exactly?
Yes, but it would still mean she can affect him, so any ability that can one-shot him, would. But assuming you're correct, then what can UKG do to win?
Depends entirely on what the curse is. Tell me what it is, and how it functions. Then tell me how it has no relation to any sort of magic or reality warping by 40k's standards when a man using tk can be considered as such.

"any ability that can one-shot him, would"

If you ignore all of his defenses, his power nullification, and fact that he can function without a body, yes.

"then what can UKG do to win?"

Hold him off long enough to become 2-A or a comparable level, which according to earlier in this thread, isn't too difficult for it. I also want to stress that arguing that the Emperor can resist and nullify certain abilities does not equate to "nothing UKG can do will affect the Emperor at all ever". If I had been arguing that, then it would have been a stomp from the start.
 
Well you already stated curses fall under it. Did you say that without knowing how it functions?

I mean, power null would have to be as fast to help, and being able to function without a body isn't anything new to PMMM. Though about the defenses, see below:

Really? Because in this thread you said: "Upscaled to High 1-B? Because if it isn't, you aren't auto-bypassing his defenses."
 
No, I am saying that you can tell me how any of UKG's curses function instead of just saying they aren't magic by PMMM, if you want. And I guarantee it will fall under magic/rw by 40k's standards, or one of the resistances he currently has.

Pretty sure Matt directly posted a quote about his mind operating outside of time, up above.

"aren't auto-bypassing", not "aren't ever going to do anything". The specific argument was "these upscaled abilities will go right through to the Emperor".
 
Sorry, was referring to your comments before you changed them. Curses are the despair of magical girls as a form of energy to combat entropy, or do you want more specifically for the abilities?

Screenshot 2018-03-30 at 23.14.26
Again, nothing new here, especially when you consider UKG does so normally.

"1-B defenses" "Can do something eventually when UKG is 2-A" Pick one?
 
Mistake on my part that I was fixing, yes.

I know that much. I was asking if you were trying to justify that as something that is not already generalized under his resistances. Like I said, things should be clarified on his page, but it does not mean the implication of them is entirely absent.

"Again, nothing new here, especially when you consider UKG does so normally."

I don't think this lines up with what you're responding to, or what I think you're responding to, as my point was about how you seemed to think the Emperor could not react "fast" enough to something that is passive.

""1-B defenses" "Can do something eventually when UKG is 2-A" Pick one?"

This is probably more misunderstanding of the Emperor's abilities. He does not just put up a giant shield around himself that says "nothing below High 1-B gets through" on it. The materium Emperor can utilize certain abilities on that scale, but it does not mean they always do so. If he's fighting an opponent who's going to force him to keep using up enough of his psychic energy, while said opponent is growing towards 2-A, chances are he'll eventually start becoming more vulnerable than he is at the start.

People earlier in the thread seemed to be jumping to conclusions that the Emperor either can't recover from things done to him by UKG, or he can do so with no downside. Both of these are false. Recovering does not mean he isn't using up some portion of his power to do so.
 
Ah yeah, that makes more sense. Previously it sounded like you had just assumed curses can be found in 40k with some equivalent.

I was responding to the point about him thinking outside of time somehow meaning he could react fast enough to UKG's passive abilities, sorry if there was any confusion.

But wouldn't infinitely upon infinitely stronger hax require infinitely greater energy to defend against? Not to mention, it was pointed out by Matt or Kep I believe that he can keep it up for months casually, against someone with greater hax than even peak UKG.
 
Yeah, just wanted to clarify.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I was just saying it's not something completely out of the realm of him being able to react to when stacked with his defenses.

Logically. Also logically the materium Emperor shouldn't be Tier 4 (in the context of the setting and story), yet he is. It's complicated, at times. But yet this 3-D/4-D character can use of non-infinitely differing values of energy against abilities that are infinitely-differing in potency. Kinda like how in DBS, shaking an infinite realm is a High 3-A feat, but is not treated as infinitely above busting a solar system.
 
Then (now going to the last point since it seems we've cleared up the first two), would UKG even becoming 2-A be relevant given she wouldn't be passing the defenses in the time given in the vs debate?
 
Yes. The Emperor is still capable of being smacked around. Especially if UKG also becomes immeasurable, meaning she has a far higher chance of just, at worst, being able to perform some type of incap on the Emperor, at that point.

As I said earlier, "There's a reason the Chaos Gods resorted to stuff like, 'Just have his son punch him in the face across all levels of existence. Whatever, man.'".
 
Didn't you say him being smacked around and die would make him a 4-D being (ie his consciousness) thus making it pointless?

This is speed equalized remembered? Otherwise this would have been a stomp in the other direction.

But yeah, these were just some questions I had, I think you can add it to their profiles now.
 
Being smacked around indefinitely by a being on a higher level would definitely at least count as some sort of incap, I believe. Especially if he couldn't properly fight back.

I was under the assumption that didn't apply to the potential speed she could reach? If it does, disregard that point.

Alright, I'll do so. I always appreciate that you ask actual questions and don't just say "no u".
 
I'm lost.

What happened?

Also would the fact that some of her abilities (including law manip) are 2-A when she's still 5-B change anything?
 
@RKGenki

Mainly just clarification.

We were considering most of her abilities to be 2-A, this whole time. If they weren't, I don't think this would have been remotely as fair.
 
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