Kriemhild Gretchen vs The Emperor of Mankind

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@Oneguy Ummm...

Does this looks like a magical girl to you?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Btw remember that UKG's precog is the same as a 4-D being omnipresent through all the space-time of at least two infinite multiverses who has seen all their past, present and future possibilities (it comes from Madoka's nigh-omniscience which UKG has)

What about ^this Matt?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mean that's neat but Gretchen isn't the character who preps shit.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

No, just think that they can basically see each other. Also, passive ability is a problem for big E.

 

[SomebodyData]

The point was more to show that the pre-cog was relatively even, not sure how one's tendency to prep matters here (Especially in a match without prep)

 

[Schnee_One]

Big E doesn't resist something?

 

[SomebodyData]

He doesn't resist the passive holy manip or passive curses.

 

[First_Witch]

Honestly with both having insane Precog, shouldn this match be incon? Both are seeing shit that kills them and goes for kill instantly. Either that or Emprah stomps, due lulresistance to everything Kriemhild has.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Hey what going o- oh for ****'s sake...

 

[SomebodyData]

There is a sense of irony in the fact that a user named "First Witch" is in a thread revolving the last witch in PMMM.

Anyways, @First Witch, he doesn't resist holy manip or curse manip.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@SD Wrong! The last witch is Homulilly. Fite me.

 

[SomebodyData]

I mean, Homulily is now gone and UKG still probably exists.

 

[DMB_1]

So who wins/stalls?

 

[SomebodyData]

UKG has some abilities that can work against him, two of which (Holy Manip and Curse, both passive and can defeat him) would be executed faster than his EE. So I would go for UKG, though I'm pretty sure people are just gonna "FRA" and not actually read any discussion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He doesn't resist the passive holy manip or passive curses.

He is Holy and Curses are a thing sorcerers in 40K can do.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

UKG has some abilities that can work against him, two of which (Holy Manip and Curse, both passive and can defeat him) would be executed faster than his EE. So I would go for UKG, though I'm pretty sure people are just gonna "FRA" and not actually read any discussion.

As I said above somewhere the GEOM son Magnus has curse Manipulation on his profile so I don't see how he can't deal with it

 

[SomebodyData]

Being holy doesn't make you immune to holy manip. Especially when said holy manip has been described to be judged on an absurd level of morality. If he has even sinned he would be affected.

Which I'm guessing he is unaffected by? Just to note here, UKG's curses here are capable of ignoring beings with curse resistance and grow more powerful just by UKG being there. Even if he resists it originally, he probably won't by the time EE happens.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Well it was originally a magical girl.

 

[First_Witch]

Shouldnt Kriemhilds Curse-manip > Magnus one?

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Shouldnt Kriemhilds Curse-manip > Magnus one?

I am just mentioning it. Also I am pretty sure many daemons of Tzeentch has curse Manipulation.

 

[SomebodyData]

Which he doesn't have a resistance to on his page.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Which he doesn't have a resistance to on his page.

There's a lot of things that his page is missing. Like the power nullification mentioned above by Azzy

 

[First_Witch]

I mean, isnt Kriemhilds Curses 4-D compared to the Daemons (correct me if i am wrong) 3-D curse manip?

 

[SomebodyData]

Even so, it doesn't inherently mean he has a resistance to it.

Speaking of which, if the Emperor's page is outdated, shouldn't this be closed? The UKG would win under the current page's listings, but honestly, that would be a cheap victory for her and not notable.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

I mean, isnt Kriemhilds Curses 4-D compared to the Daemons (correct me if i am wrong) 3-D curse manip?

Daemons are but smaller pieces too there god. Also if the daemons have that ability than there god does and that means that GEOM can resist infinite-D curse Manipulation because of tzeentch if I am getting this right

 

[First_Witch]

Daemons are but smaller pieces too there god. Also if the daemons have that ability than there god does and that means that GEOM can resist infinite-D curse Manipulation because of tzeentch if I am getting this right

If thats true then how is Kriemhild supposed to win? This is pretty much a stomp then.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

If thats true then how is Kriemhild supposed to win? This is pretty much a stomp then.

The GEOM page has to go under some revisions cause many of his resistances aren't noted on his page so if we use this version of the GEOM then he can possibly lose

 

[SomebodyData]

Holy Manip is still valid here...

Also, again, do you have any showings of him resisting curses? And just because daemons have an ability, doesn't mean their Gods do. It would be like adding AoC's abilities to UKG.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Virtually everything you define as Holy and Divine and Heavenly is connected to the Emperor in Warhammer. He is the Archetypal Monotheistic God, despite claiming he is not.

His Domain in the Warp has even been described as a traditional Heaven with angels and cherubs and choir music and shit.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

He killed Horus, his own son. Emprah is far from being saint. ovo

 

[SomebodyData]

Again, being holy =/= you are immune especially when you consider that it comes from a being who rejects divinity to begin with. Has he sinned? As simple as that.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

Holy Manip is still valid here...

Also, again, do you have any showings of him resisting curses? And just because daemons have an ability, doesn't mean their Gods do. It would be like adding AoC's abilities to UKG.

If he didn't have resistance to it than Tzeentch could have gotten rid of the GEOM with no problem and yet he doesn't. So there has to be something there stopping Tzeentch from using his curse Manipulation on the GEOM or chaos would have defeated him before he became a problem

 

[SomebodyData]

Which again, an ability he doesn't inherently have just because he created people who did. Once again, I point out: Avatar of Calamity was a creation of Kriemhild Gretche, and we don't assume UKG gets AoC's abilities.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Aren't Chaos Gods just 4-A while outside the warp?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again, being holy =/= you are immune especially when you consider that it comes from a being who rejects divinity to begin with. Has he sinned? As simple as that.

It kinda does when his Holyness would overwrite Gretchen's by virtue of being High 1-B vs 2-A at most.

 

[SomebodyData]

What? This isn't a competition of who is more holy. This is just holy manip based on his sins. Tell me, has he sinned?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Depends on your definition, has Gretchen? I'm guessing she does. You're trying to fight an ocean with a bucket of water here, it won't work.

 

[Thatoneguy78]

@matthew also does Tzeentch have curse Manipulation I feel like this needs to be a point that needs to be addressed here as well

 

[SomebodyData]

Well yeah, it is Gretchen after all. What? Your analogy makes no sense. This isn't "As long as you're more holy it doesn't work", its "your sins come back to hurt you basically".

 

[Schnee_One]

Aren't Chaos Gods just 4-A while outside the warp?

While ridiculously restricted but yeah