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Kratos vs Hadesmon

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Kepekley23 said:
It also seems to go against the notion his hacking is a passive ability.
Click to expand...
We never argued that tho. Not once. We said that he can just immediately take control over wide reaches of space in which his direct reference book (Which is primary canon btw. We have a discussion rule regarding it btw) states. We also went over power null here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1057513
 
This is in-character though, so unless he does that frequently...

Plus, in all gifs Exec posted, Hackmon is shown having to manually hack his opponent's attacks.The fact that Kratos's speed is enough to make him almost invisible kinda renders that impractical.

The way I see it, Kratos loses (due to SBA), time-travels after all his items are gone and uses the Amulet of Uroborus to stop it altogether. Which gives him this fight.
 
Kepekley23 said:
The scan Executor posted suggests Hackmon doesn't hax people, but their attacks.
Click to expand...
It uses its ferocious claws for its Vanquish Claw attack, instantly overwriting the program of anything it scratches and destroying it.
It overwrites programs wherever it goes without discrimination. There are times where it strengthens the security instead, such that even the owner of the data is unable to undo the lock.
A Hacking App Appmon. It analyzes programs and modifies the opponent's data, making the modified Appmon's defensive abilities as good as nonexistent.
This is all about Hackmon. It acts directly on any program, not just on the outcome of their action.

Revivemon Hack
This is an example of Revivemon hacking directly Deusmon. We have other cases like when DoGatchmon Plus Raidramon hacked Sakusimon to gain access to all his data.
 
He'd have to blitz Rei who by versus battle rules cannot be targeted. Also note you are looking at the much weaker Raidramon as well.

You are also assuming that Hadesmon doesn't just flat out take that characteristic away. The moment Hadesmon hacks Kratos, he would know what to expect and thus modify Kratos to the point and the Amulet in which his defensive abilities are nonexistent. Not to mention once again, anything within his space is prime for hacking.

EDIT: And before you say anything about Revivemon needing to make contact Deusmon, notice that Revivemon is noticeably in an air battle and not on the ground.
 
He'd have to blitz Rei who by versus battle rules cannot be targeted.

If Rei has to tell Hadesmon to hack something, it strengthens my point that it isn't really in his character to hax a person instead of their attacks.

You are also assuming that Hadesmon doesn't just flat out take that characteristic away

The scans shown suggest it's not instant. Therefore Kratos's massive speed advantage counters it most of the time.

You're probably not realizing just how huge in terms of perspective his speed advantage is. Someone 5x as fast as you would be so fast you would just barely have the time to dish out a proper thought. He is 100x as fast.
 
EDIT: And before you say anything about Revivemon needing to make contact Deusmon, notice that Revivemon is noticeably in an air battle and not on the ground.

I don't see how it being an aerial battle counters him needing to make contact?

And Kratos can also go to the air if he feels like it.
 
Kepekley23 said:
You're probably not realizing just how huge in terms of perspective his speed advantage is. Someone 5x as fast as you would be so fast you would just barely have the time to dish out a proper thought. He is 100x as fast.
Click to expand...
Okay, this is already starting to become so much more than I was thinking. I will finish my new blog soon to perform the recalculation.
 
"If Rei literally has to tell Hadesmon to hack something, it strengthens my point."

But he doesn't? Hadesmon has a will of his own. Hadesmon can just a willingly hack without Rei telling him what to do. This isn't a Pokemon. Digimon and Appmon will quite easily use their abilities without instruction.

"The scans shown suggest it's not instant. Therefore Kratos's massive speed advantage counters it most of the time."

It has shown to be near instantaneous. Also once again you are literally looking at the High 8-C Standard level Hackmon and not the literal God level Hadesmon whose skills are far superior.

"You're probably not realizing just how huge in terms of perspective his speed advantage is. Someone 5x as fast as you would be so fast you would just barely have the time to dish out a proper thught. He is 100x as fast."

Speed advantages like that are not allowed. That was discussed here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1363124, AP advantage be damned. No more than a 10x speed gap is allowed. Also, you are also not accounting for how Kratos attacks. If he uses the Claws of Hades, he will be hooked on Hadesmon making him an easy target. His simple attacks will mean nothing as Hadesmon has far higher durability than Kratos' actual paygrade. Not only that you bring up Time Travel, but one thing that has always bothered me regarding Time Travel is that how would Kratos know where to go? He knows nothing regarding Hackmon's history nor Rei's world. So how will he know where to travel to?

"I don't see how it being an aerial battle counters him needing to make contact?"

We've literally posted multiple times that anything within the literal space he has already controlled in free for him to hack.
 
@Gargo

The way I envision this fight going is as I said above, so...I guess my vote is on Kratos? His superior speed allowing him to land a sheer number of hits that will drain Hadesmon before he even notices how nice the weather is.

In fact, I think speed combijed AP alone would probably give him the fight. He can just K.O Hadesmon after having drained his AP.

@Executor

You probably need to, because this is a stomp otherwise.
 
Also I just looked at Kratos' speed to see that Kratos is only Relativistic combat and reaction speed wise. Hadesmon and Rei can easily keep pace of his general movements. Starting Distance is 4km meaning that Hadesmon has more enough time to set up his own hacking space. In which Kratos will enter. I also just realized we never scaled Minerva's feat to the God Appmon.
 
@Dragon

But he doesn't? Hadesmon has a will of his own. Hadesmon can just a willingly hack without Rei telling him what to do. This isn't a Pokemon. Digimon and Appmon will quite easily use their abilities without instruction.

Why bring up Kratos blitzing Rei if it was irrelevant then?

It has shown to be near instantaneous. Also once again you are literally looking at the High 8-C Standard level Hackmon and not the literal God level Hadesmon whose skills are far superior.

I'm looking at the feats they have shown with their hax. I asked for scans, so I will obviously use what the scans show me. If you have proof it is instantaneous, be my guest.

You also mentioned him having trouble doing that while flying, which Kratos can force him to.

Also, you are also not accounting for how Kratos attacks. If he uses the Claws of Hades, he will be hooked on Hadesmon making him an easy target. His simple attacks will mean nothing as Hadesmon has far higher durability than Kratos' actual paygrade.

I have been mentioning his ability to AP and lifeforce drain with his blades for a while by now. His simple attacks will be very significant.

Not only that you bring up Time Travel, but one thing that has always bothered me regarding Time Travel is that how would Kratos know where to go? He knows nothing regarding Hackmon's history nor Rei's world. So how will he know where to travel to?

What do you mean? He just needs to travel to the moment the battle started and Time-Stop. He knows how the battlefield he fought in 5 mins ago looks like.
 
"Why bring up Kratos blitzing Rei if it was irrelevant then?"

This was misinterpretation on my part. I thought you were implying that Kratos would attack Rei directly.

"I'm looking at the feats they have shown with their hax. I asked for scans, so I will obviously use what the scans show me. If you have proof it is instantaneous, be my guest."

The scans show it being near instantaneous though. Also you should also be reading the Reference Book and other sources as well. Those are equally if not more important than the anime as they are primary canon. This is how Digimon works. We've got an accepted discussion rule just for that.

It is capable not only of identifying a program's vulnerabilities in an instant, but also nullifying even powerful attacks without delay. When the power of its bond with its Buddy Rei reaches its maximum, a miracle will occur...!?
~ 4-041​
"You also mentioned him having trouble doing that while flying, which Kratos can force him to."

I never said he had trouble. I said that he didn't use the space around him because he hadn't hacked a space. And once again you are forgetting he has direct sources stating that he can literally hack vast quantities of space and alter it however he please and sources above have done the job of showing that he can hack anything within his space. Limiting it to just attacks when every source stats that he also hacks beings and such directly is blatantly false.

"I have been mentioning his ability to AP and lifeforce drain with his blades for a while by now. His simple attacks will be very significant."

AP drain doesn't drain Stamina and he can simply hack his stuff back or hack the claws while they try and drain his AP and instead make them drain Kratos. We are talking about someone who literally hacked a black hole. Has Kratos stolen the life force of an Artificial non organic being before. Appmon are literally Digital AI so unless Kratos has absorbed the life force of something similar, I don't think it'll work. I am also iffy on Kratos stealing the life force of someone far above his usual pay grade. An no matter how badly destroyed Hadesmon will restore himself as his natural ability. And once again, Hadesmon can simply turn the Claws of Hades into either a different weapon or make them do something completely different as long as they are in its space. Let's not forget that these guys are 4km away. We haven't even brought up his telekinesis either.
 
The scans show it being near instantaneous though. Also you should also be reading the Reference Book and other sources as well. Those are equally if not more important than the anime as they are primary canon. This is how Digimon works. We've got an accepted discussion rule just for that.

I never remotely implied they weren't the primary canon, I'm not sure why even mention it.

None of the Reference Book scans posted by Executor N0 imply an instantaneous hacking with the sole exception of Vanquish Claw, which is a finish ability and something that he needs to land.

I never said he had trouble. I said that he didn't use the space around him because he hadn't hacked a space. And once again you are forgetting he has direct sources stating that he can literally hack vast quantities of space and alter it however he please and sources above have done the job of showing that he can hack anything within his space. Limiting it to just attacks when every source stats that he also hacks beings and such directly is blatantly false.

I never once said or implied he could only hack attacks. Read again, I said the scans showed he only used it to hack attacks in-character. Its speed and the question of it needing to land on opponents are entirely different matters.

Also, this is literally what you said:

EDIT: And before you say anything about Revivemon needing to make contact Deusmon, notice that Revivemon is noticeably in an air battle and not on the ground.
As if an air battle was what stopped him from hacking on-spot.

AP drain doesn't drain Stamina

AP and lifeforce drain.

and he can simply hack his stuff back or hack the claws while they try and drain his AP

Can't do that with people who are so much faster than he is.

Has Kratos stolen the life force of an Artificial non organic being before

He has defeated the Automaton, an android. So the short-answer is yes.

I am also iffy on Kratos stealing the life force of someone far above his usual pay grade

Hax > AP.

And once again, Hadesmon can simply turn the Claws of Hades into either a different weapon or make them do something completely different as long as they are in its space.

This would lead to Kratos time-traveling after he is defeated in order to do things differently, and thus using hax such as Time-Stop.

What can he do against being petrified? Does his hacking affect non-corporeal beings?
 
> Let's not forget that these guys are 4km away.

With Mach 300k travel speed via the Boots, he can cover that extremely fast.
 
By the way I'm having fun. Are you? I haven't got to debate a Digimon fight like this in a while. ovo

"None of the Reference Book scans posted by Executor N0 imply an instantaneous hacking with the sole exception of Vanquish Claw, which is a finish ability and something that he needs to land."

Vanquish Claw is like Hackmon's most basic skill. It isn't a finish move by any means. Telekinesis makes this easy to hit seeing as the moment Kratos enters his range, Kratos gets stuck.

"I never once said or implied he could only hack attacks. Read again, I said the scans showed he only used it to hack attacks in-character. Its speed and the question of it needing to land on opponents are entirely different matters."

Notice how in none of those situations was Hackmon bloodlusted. He wasn't Trying to kill his foes during those scans. The time he did, he directly hacked Dezipmon and even Biomon in order to get information. Also when it pertains to Digimon we use the reference book to also detail the character of a Digimon or Appmon.

"As if an air battle was what stopped him from hacking on-spot."

That's not what I was trying to imply. It was meant to show that in that situation, Revivemon had not hacked the space to hack.

"Can't do that with people who can land dozens of blows before he properly thinks."

Where is your evidence that those dozens of strikes steals all his life force beforehand? Where has he done that to someone above his pay grade. Also once again, I have addressed that a gap of 100x speed is not allowed. Also Kratos needs to close in first of all. And movement wise Hadesmon is much faster than Kratos.

"He has defeated the Automaton, an android. So the short-answer is yes."

Did he steal his life force directly? Also I'd like to remind you that Hadesmon can get his entire soul and body destroyed and still regenerate. So Life Force Absorption will not finish off Hadesmon as he'll just return as if nothing happened.

"Hax > AP."

Not always true.

"This would lead to Kratos time-traveling after he is defeated in order to do things differently, and thus using hax such as Time-Stop."

Telekinesis keeps gives Hadesmon enough time to get information on Kratos and to null that Time Travel. Hadesmon hacks the item that stops time.

"What can he do against being petrified?"

Break out just like other enemies. A lot quicker seeing as he's stronger than everyone Kratos has ever fought.
 
Just notice that the Kiwami's speed is going to increase a LOT in relation to what they are. It is so wonderful when cinematic time gives a lower result than using the time given by the work itself OvO
 
Vanquish Claw is like Hackmon's most basic skill. It isn't a finish move by any means

The anime scan posted by Executor N0 suggests it's something he uses to finish off opponents and something that he needs to land.

Notice how in none of those situations was Hackmon bloodlusted

He isn't bloodlusted here either. If it was, Kratos would've already won via instant Time-Stop.

Where is your evidence that those dozens of strikes steals all his life force beforehand?

When did I say it stole all his lifeforce? A portion each time is already signnificant, even 1% means 12% of his lifeforce with each combo, bringing Kratos to his paygrade.

Where has he done that to someone above his pay grade.

Hax > AP. Plus, the Blades of Chaos, which are weaker or at the very best equal to the Blades of Exile, were forged in the realm of a 3-A.

Also once again, I have addressed that a gap of 100x speed is not allowed

It is not allowed to outright ignore a statistic or an advantage, though.

Also Kratos needs to close in first of all.

He only needs 38 microseconds to do that.

So Life Force Absorption will not finish off Hadesmon as he'll just return as if nothing happened.

I've already acknowledged this 50 or some posts above. The Lifeforce Absorption isn't meant to kill. It is meant to make Hadesmon an even easier target.

Not always true.

It's tue until proven otherwise.

Telekinesis keeps gives Hadesmon enough time to get information on Kratos and to null that Time Travel.

Ares also has passive Telekinesis that can wipe out armies of hundreds of thousands and it didn't quite avail him in his battle against Kratos.

Hadesmon hacks the item that stops time.

Not fast enough to, Time Travel counters it.

Break out just like other enemies. A lot quicker seeing as he's stronger than everyone Kratos has ever fought.

The canonical time limit is 10 seconds. Kratos has the speed to instabreak him, too.
 
Nah, Kratos is still fast (Most likely). But the speed gap decreased

Because : Globemon and the others Main Appmon < Ultimate Four < Globemon and the other with Appli Drive Duo Boost < God Appmon.
 
NeoZex6399 wrote (Snip)

Yeah if this gets concluded this goes down in history as the best thread I've ever made.
 
Also, Telekinesis gets hard-countered by Kratos replacing himself with Shadow Clones.

Kratos uses Soul Summon in-character. This makes short work of Hadesmon since the Medusa summon will chase him down. He is also able to hide his weapons in a pocket dimension, and this is the lore explanation of how he can stick so many weapons in his "backpocket"
 
Well, I actually made a mistake in that calculation. Actually the value is more than double what I calculated. Now Globemon before any Boost has more than 34% the speed of light OvO
 
A p p l i D r i v e D U O, ovo

And yet the God form is more powerful than the sum of Kiwami 2.0 with Ultimate Four 2.0 (Which before any Boost was already much stronger, fast and esistant than the Kiwami before any Boost).
 
"The anime scan posted by Executor N0 suggests it's something he uses to finish off opponents and something that he needs to land."

This is why you have to pay attention to everything else other than those for anything regarding Digimon. This series works on collective information. Unless specified, attacks in the franchise are the most basic attacks a Digimon or Appmon has. Vanquish Claw is as basic as basic can be for the Hackmon line.

"He isn't bloodlusted here either. If it was, Kratos would've already won via instant Time-Stop."

I meant willing to kill. Here he's willing to kill his opponent and thus will be more willing to hack him.

"Hax > AP. Plus, the Blades of Chaos, which are weaker or at the very best equal to the Blades of Exile, were forged in the realm of a 3-A."

Forged in a 3-A realm doesn't mean anything. That's just where it was forged.

"It is not allowed to outright ignore a statistic or an advantage, though."

What?

"He only needs 38 microseconds to do that."

Hadesmon can effortlessly react to him approaching and act accordingly.

"Ares also has passive Telekinesis that can wipe out armies of hundreds of thousands and it didn't quite avail him in his battle against Kratos."

And from that fight, Ares barely used his telekinesis as well. Where does this passive telekinesis come from. Not to mention this is telekinesis from a 5-B.

"The canonical time limit is 10 seconds. Kratos has the speed to instabreak him, too."

And then he regenerates immediately.

"Kratos uses Soul Summon in-character. This makes short work of Hadesmon since the Medusa summon will chase him down. He is also able to hide his weapons in a pocket dimension."

All Medusa does is petrify you. Nothing is stopping Hadesmon from just blasting her away.

"Via Boots of Hermes, he is still several times faster."

Doesn't that only raise his movement speed? Either this boost in speed is more than enough for Hadesmon to easily react to attacks and hack away. Also Ex just recalced it and it's double to what her originally made. Not to mention this he calc pre DUO Appmon. Hadesmon came after the post DUO making him much faster. He was already much faster than his previous form anyway. Making him already much faster than 34% the speed of light. Also where is this Boots of Hermes multiplier coming from?
 
This is why you have to pay attention to everything else other than those for anything regarding Digimon. This series works on collective information. Unless specified, attacks in the franchise are the most basic attacks a Digimon or Appmon has.

Exactly zero of the scans posted so far imply it's something Appmon can use without having to land it. If you have a scan, be my guest and post it.

I meant willing to kill. Here he's willing to kill his opponent and thus will be more willing to hack him.

Via SBA, his normal flaws still apply despite his willingness to kill

Forged in a 3-A realm doesn't mean anything. That's just where it was forged.

Hax > AP...

Hadesmon can effortlessly react to him approaching and act accordingly.

Once he gets close, Hadesmon will have trouble with Petrification and Time-Stop.

Where does this passive telekinesis come from.

God of War I. Ares's mere presence was enough to induce it.

And then he regenerates immediately.

He is dead. He won't be able to regenerate.

All Medusa does is petrify you. Nothing is stopping Hadesmon from just blasting her away.

This is a non-corporeal version of Medusa.

Doesn't that only raise his movement speed?

Yes.
 
Non-corporeal towards being a soul? mean, as long as it is something existing Digital beings can influence because Data = Everything that exists (Actually even that which does not exist kkkkk).
 
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