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Gonna follow the Mash trend since he seem skilled. Speed equalizated, 10 meters apart, in a desolated city, After Stories Kouki and Magia Lapus Arc Mash. Win via incap or killing so no Social Influencing no jutsu for them.

Kouki: 7 (Epiccheev, AnAverageUsername, Celestial_Pegasus, Veloxt1r0kore, Sonicflare9, Mariogoods and Expectro2000xxx)
vs
Mash: 0

Inco: 0
 
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This Kouki AP scale considerably above 30 megatons, probably even 60 megatons since I'm pretty sure this Kouki is far above his copy fusion who is above the Hajime who is above his previous self that fought against Apostles.
 
Mash was able to easily subdue Rayne's 10% attacks, who scales to the mountain feat, meaning Mash should be comfortably above 63.55 Megatons. So he still has a bit of an AP advantage here.
 
Mash was able to easily subdue Rayne's 10% attacks, who scales to the mountain feat, meaning Mash should be comfortably above 63.55 Megatons. So he still has a bit of an AP advantage here.
Considering this Kouki is almost completely sure above 60 megatons the difference is basically inexistent, both of them also have RE and fight without problem opponents stronger, so they are equal in the AP part.
 
Considering this Kouki is almost completely sure above 60 megatons the difference is basically inexistent, both of them also have RE and fight without problem opponents stronger, so they are equal in the AP part.
Ah, I think I misunderstood you. Well Mash still has the higher lifting strength, though can I get a value for Kouki's? It's a bit hard to read. Mash's lifting strength should be superior to the casual 1.2383459e+14 newton feat.
 
Ah, I think I misunderstood you. Well Mash still has the higher lifting strength, though can I get a value for Kouki's? It's a bit hard to read. Mash's lifting strength should be superior to the casual 1.2383459e+14 newton feat.
Currently his LS is 1.10e11, with a possibly 8.96e12 kg since Kouki and Kousuke believed that he could extend his sword 13 kilometers, additionally literally a few paragraph after the feat Kouki got another power up so is plenty possible that he indeed can extend it 13 kilometers or more, though even with that Mash would have the LS advantage.
 
Ok, so, Mash has a lot of useful abilities. He can fly around, once he sees an attack it almost instantly never works on him again, he's so acrobatic he can dodge multiple diamond rings coming at him mid-air, he has the instincts of a wild beast, he can unconsciously react to threats, and his analytical prediction is so great to where he can calculate and react to attacks much faster than him.

Anything Kouki can do about these?
 
Right now I'm a bit busy so maybe I not gonna be able to answer soon, if Pegasus appear he can talk about him meanwhile, you can also read his intelligence section and power part of the After Stories key since that show well his skill. Though I can quote this really short summany from Pegasus:
Kouki is so skilled he came up with a sword style that changes every instant, countering an advance AI that not only has data on basically the entirety of humanity, so knows all the ways humans fight, but also can predict the future based on muscle move, gaze, and even the faintest nerve signal, like that's crazy.

And then you also got Endou who is beating ppl with hundreds of years of experience.....
 
This Kouki AP scale considerably above 30 megatons, probably even 60 megatons since I'm pretty sure this Kouki is far above his copy fusion who is above the Hajime who is above his previous self that fought against Apostles.
The Hajime who is above Apostles is Post Schnee though, in other words this is after he gets evolution magic to enhance himself, he fought the copy fusion before getting evolution magic.

Kouki can weaken his enemies while strengthening himself, and has stuff like limit break, and supreme break/overload, so doesn't matter really, even if he is 12 megatons, he can become 60.
 
Ok, so, Mash has a lot of useful abilities. He can fly around, once he sees an attack it almost instantly never works on him again, he's so acrobatic he can dodge multiple diamond rings coming at him mid-air, he has the instincts of a wild beast, he can unconsciously react to threats, and his analytical prediction is so great to where he can calculate and react to attacks much faster than him.

Anything Kouki can do about these?
Kouki can basically fly via platform creation in mid air, Kouki's attack change every instant, and he can get new skills via sheer will, as a sword saint Kouki's attacks, thoughts and emotions can't be read, even by ppl with enhanced senses, extrasensory perception and even mind reading, Kouki also unconsciously reacts to threats, Kouki also has analytical prediction, but i would argue it's not as good, but still doesn't matter as even Mother who could do that couldn't predict Kouki's attacks.
 
Kouki can basically fly via platform creation in mid air, Kouki's attack change every instant, and he can get new skills via sheer will, as a sword saint Kouki's attacks, thoughts and emotions can't be read, even by ppl with enhanced senses, extrasensory perception and even mind reading, Kouki also unconsciously reacts to threats, Kouki also has analytical prediction, but i would argue it's not as good, but still doesn't matter as even Mother who could do that couldn't predict Kouki's attacks.
Ah, let me guess, a light novel verse?
 
Now I can answer, though I see that Pegasus already did so.
The Hajime who is above Apostles is Post Schnee though, in other words this is after he gets evolution magic to enhance himself, he fought the copy fusion before getting evolution magic.

Kouki can weaken his enemies while strengthening himself, and has stuff like limit break, and supreme break/overload, so doesn't matter really, even if he is 12 megatons, he can become 60.
I mean, Hajime fought the copy fusion after his battle with his own perfect copy who he stomped pretty hard after a minute or so because of RE, so by that point Hajime already was far superior to when he fought the Apostles. And now that I think about it, Hajime already had evolution magic in that point, evolution magic was from the Haltina labyrinth and Schnee was metamorphosis magic (remember that Freid first labyrinth was Schnee and that's the reason of why he had the army of monsters).
Kouki can basically fly via platform creation in mid air, Kouki's attack change every instant, and he can get new skills via sheer will, as a sword saint Kouki's attacks, thoughts and emotions can't be read, even by ppl with enhanced senses, extrasensory perception and even mind reading, Kouki also unconsciously reacts to threats, Kouki also has analytical prediction, but i would argue it's not as good, but still doesn't matter as even Mother who could do that couldn't predict Kouki's attacks.
This is basically a good summary, though I would say that his analytical prediction is fine/good, the scene when half dead he relearned and mastered the Yaegashi style is probably a good example:
Ah, let me guess, a light novel verse?
Yes.
 
@Expectro2000xxx Well you do have a point that Hajime got stronger with reactive power level against his own clone, then fought Kouki's. I was thinking of evolution magic being at Schnee cause it's after they left that labyrinth, the whole can take Apostle without limit break statement comes, but yea you are right in this case. That said do we really have anything that says Afterstories Kouki>Copy Kouki who was a fusion of himself and his copy? End of Main Story Kouki i think is generic Apostle level, and we can imply Afterstories Kouki>that one due to being able to use the same light dragon technique, or a even more powerful one or whatever.

@AnAverageUsername Yea, the afterstories go crazy, like we are at the point now, where dodging without thinking is very common, and everybody who gets focused on in an arc, is a skill monster, while the "big boys" are messing around with planets now.
 
Ah, should have guessed

Well, while I wait for other supporters of Mashle (oh hey, look at that), I will say that Mash has a really high pain tolerance. He was able to keep moving on through multiple torrents of cuts from an opponent much, much faster than him all while he was slowed down. He also isn't afraid of using the environment around himself, as shown when he split the ground in the same fight to limit his opponents movements. He also has a pretty good chokehold, making enemies hallucinate and cutting off airflow just via the explosive force of his muscles. Though I dont know how this would fair after getting de-buffed and Kouki getting buffed, as said above.
@AnAverageUsername Yea, the afterstories go crazy, like we are at the point now, where dodging without thinking is very common, and everybody who gets focused on in an arc, is a skill monster, while the "big boys" are messing around with planets now.
Damn, sounds interesting.
I hope Mashle gets to that point someday with its limited time left
 
Kouki fought continually for days on end, while protecting a city, and gravely injured, dude went unconscious due to how exhausted and damaged he was, and was still fighting, and after all that while not fully recovered goes on to fight 1 hundred thousand strong army alone....
 
Just look at Shea, aka the bugged rabbit, fighting her in hand to hand combat would be a nightmare, she has senses that warn of danger, and even tell her the location of instantaneous teleportation, precog that lets her see 2 seconds into the future, and also activates by itself if her life is in danger, instinctive reaction, copies any martial arts she sees, gets stronger every second in battles, gains resistances to what she is facing, comes up with new abilities with just "guts", and even this physical fighter which was crap at magic before, now can deal fatal attacks to the soul, rip apart space, and even take control of minds via hitting ppl with her hammer....
 
@Expectro2000xxx Well you do have a point that Hajime got stronger with reactive power level against his own clone, then fought Kouki's. I was thinking of evolution magic being at Schnee cause it's after they left that labyrinth, the whole can take Apostle without limit break statement comes, but yea you are right in this case. That said do we really have anything that says Afterstories Kouki>Copy Kouki who was a fusion of himself and his copy? End of Main Story Kouki i think is generic Apostle level, and we can imply Afterstories Kouki>that one due to being able to use the same light dragon technique, or a even more powerful one or whatever.

@AnAverageUsername Yea, the afterstories go crazy, like we are at the point now, where dodging without thinking is very common, and everybody who gets focused on in an arc, is a skill monster, while the "big boys" are messing around with planets now.
I mean, End of Main Story Kouki clearly had more destructive power than copy fusion, and I also remember mentions that he was stronger that in any other point, could be good to wait until the new vol is translated to confirm things. And not only is despited as more or less equal to Hajime (at least in weakened state) but it was said several times that his light dragons are colosal in this point, against the apparition army it was even said that the dragon was bigger than any other he had made until now and by how it was said to be immense even when they were at the side of the world tree is plenty possible that dragon reached the kilometers, so in short current Kouki is far stronger than his previous versions, at the very least stronger than his pseudo apostle self.

Yeah, like, in the After Stories the things become really crazy, now even normal humans instintive reactions, amazing acrobatics, enhanced senses and sixth senses that can be called ESP, the skill level is absurd and the main cast scale above that so much that isn't even funny.
Ah, should have guessed

Well, while I wait for other supporters of Mashle (oh hey, look at that), I will say that Mash has a really high pain tolerance. He was able to keep moving on through multiple torrents of cuts from an opponent much, much faster than him all while he was slowed down. He also isn't afraid of using the environment around himself, as shown when he split the ground in the same fight to limit his opponents movements. He also has a pretty good chokehold, making enemies hallucinate and cutting off airflow just via the explosive force of his muscles. Though I dont know how this would fair after getting de-buffed and Kouki getting buffed, as said above.
Regarding the debuff of the sword I honestly don't really remember that, so is probably a small debuff, though I could be wrong in which case Pegasus can correct me.

Pegasus already said about the stamina of Kouki, though I would also like to add that he fought for nearly three days in this state:
Looking at him once more, Koukiโ€™s state was really atrocious.

There was all kind of sizes of wounds throughout his body. Few places were unharmed. He was blood drenched all over his body, his brown hair was dyed dark red by his own blood and enemyโ€™s blood. His breathing was shallow and faint, it sounded like it would stop anytime now. His side that could be seen from the gap of his torn clothes was warped, perhaps it was because his ribcage was broken and changed shapeโ€ฆโ€ฆ

The sword that changed shape was gripped in only one hand, because his other arm was broken all over from the shoulder until the fist.

Looking closer, the hand that was grasping the sword was wrapped in several layer of cloth scraps, so that even if the hand lost gripping strength, the sword wouldnโ€™t slip down.

jijiji-, jijiji- The holy sword was flickering with light like a lamp that was almost cut off from electricity, as though expressing the light of Koukiโ€™s life as it was.

Just how long he had been fighting continuously in this state?

His figure that was continuing to fight even when he was unconscious.

Moana sent his gaze toward the spot where Kouki was standing. The entrance of the underground vault.

She understood just from seeing that.

โ”€โ”€I wonโ€™t let anyone touch even a single hair of them
This was possible because by pure will alone he learned a skill that make him able to fight until his body is broken or he don't have more magic power:
โ”€โ”€Limit Breakโ€™s special derivation War Demon

Originally, Limit Break raised up the whole specs by several times along with the increase of magic power, but this <War Demon> didnโ€™t have magic power increase. His specs also didnโ€™t increase. However, no matter how broken up the body was, the magic power inside the body would be used to reinforce the body as though it was replacement for plaster cast, and the user would only continue to fight intently with this special derivative skill.

Because it was almost like a self-destructing technique, almost nobody was awakened to this skill.

This was the crystallization of feeling that bloomed exactly because Koukiโ€™s heart shouted in this extreme situation.

That scream was,

โ”€โ”€Fight! Fight! To the end of that choice, following your wish, fight until this body become trash!

Edit: Ah, and almost forgot, but all of this was when he didn't had his normal equipment (no armor or air boots) just his sword, and he was unable to use most of his magic do to use it to make a barrier that covered a entire city.
 
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@Expectro2000xxx Yea vol 12 will confirm things, but yea he is definitely above his pseudo apostle self at least.

As for the debuff:

His sword was one of the artifacts that had been resting in the Heiligh treasury, and had the rather cliched name of โ€œThe Holy Sword.โ€ It was blessed with the light element, which had the sickeningly efficient properties of simultaneously weakening enemies that were hit by the light it emitted, while also increasing oneโ€™s own physical strength.-Volume 1, Chapter 1

Though yea in combat, it doesn't make that large of an impact, ppl hit by it don't go from being on his level to fodder, the effect is probably small.
 
Leaning towards Kouki for now.
If Mash managed to grab his sword and yeet it away would Kouki have any way to summon it back or another weapon to fight with?
 
I mean if Mash manages to somehow get behind Kouki and gets him into a chokehold, maybe he could use the explosive force of his muscles to block off Kouki's air and blood flow? This is a pretty big if though.
 
That would be decently hard to do to a skilled swordsman, given the extended melee range and smaller surface area means getting closer to him carelessly could lead to a decisive wound. But Mash is pretty skilled in chokeholds/wrestling and could instantly make a guy he couldn't normally harm hallucinate and pass out.
I don't think the sword could cut straight through his bones without some AP amping technique, so the chances of it getting stuck on his flesh only for mash to grab it could be bad news.
 
Yeah, getting impaled and holding said weapon that impaled him with his muscles is nothing new to him. It's what lead to Mash headbutting Abyss pretty hard, who was much, much faster than him.
 
Leaning towards Kouki for now.
If Mash managed to grab his sword and yeet it away would Kouki have any way to summon it back or another weapon to fight with?

The sword is actually sentient, long story short a former Goddess inhabits it, and can do things separate from Kouki, and will automatically come back to Kouki if it's away from him.
 
Leaning towards Kouki for now.
If Mash managed to grab his sword and yeet it away would Kouki have any way to summon it back or another weapon to fight with?
I don't think the sword could cut straight through his bones without some AP amping technique, so the chances of it getting stuck on his flesh only for mash to grab it could be bad news.
Yeah, getting impaled and holding said weapon that impaled him with his muscles is nothing new to him. It's what lead to Mash headbutting Abyss pretty hard, who was much, much faster than him.
The sword has her own will and automatically return to Kouki, literally the only reason of why he had his sword despite not had the rest of his standard equipment when he fought the armies of several thousands (and become op) was only because the sword don't want to left his side. I mean, if you look at the Supernatural Willpower part you would notice that the sword itself also has SW, when Kouki needed her she developed by herself the ability to change form and size (the current G class calc of the verse is thanks to that).

The sword would shrink herself to escape the muscle hold, it could also become giant and **** him though that's more gore so probably wouldn't happen.

Edit: Seem like I was a bit slow lol.
 
As a note, one of the reasons of why Kouki fighting style change every instant isn't only because his own skill but also because the sword change form each moment, so one second is a western sword, another is a katana, another is sword with thorns, another is a urumi, etc. So this combinated with his own skill that adapt and change constantly make him unpredictable.

The sword can also become things like tongs, chopstick or necklace, all depend of the situation and what is needed.
 
Kouki can weaken his enemies while strengthening himself, and has stuff like limit break, and supreme break/overload, so doesn't matter really, even if he is 12 megatons, he can become 60.
Mash manages to constantly evolve in fights on a massive scale. Hell, he managed to go from 7-C to 7-B+ in a few hours after a few minutes of fighting. Mash also usually finishes fights very quickly, how fast is this ability?
Kouki's attack change every instant, and he can get new skills via sheer will, as a sword saint Kouki's attacks, thoughts and emotions can't be read, even by ppl with enhanced senses, extrasensory perception and even mind reading, Kouki also unconsciously reacts to threats, Kouki also has analytical prediction, but i would argue it's not as good, but still doesn't matter as even Mother who could do that couldn't predict Kouki's attacks.
I'll be honest, Mash can do basically the same thing, but with skill. He will always adapt to the opponent's style in a few moments with a new technique that basically makes magic useless.
  • Mash can adapt to magnetic forces several times stronger than him after a few seconds
  • Can discover the properties of sound after being hit a few times and then figure out how to nullify it
  • Can discover someone's style more than 1000 times his speed by being hit several times
  • Turned a magic that almost killed him into basically a toy after the second time Cell War used the spell
  • Can analyze the movement of an attack more than 7 times his speed after seeing the magic once
Among other examples; And whenever Mash adapts to the style of a magic, he usually tries to defeat the enemy with a single blow
Kouki fought continually for days on end, while protecting a city, and gravely injured, dude went unconscious due to how exhausted and damaged he was, and was still fighting, and after all that while not fully recovered goes on to fight 1 hundred thousand strong army alone....
  • Mash had every part of his body crushed and cut off and managed to beat an opponent more than 1000 times his speed with precision by analyzing
  • He can fight someone over 10 times his strength even without his spine
  • Tougher than Dot, someone who had his body completely annihilated and cut up, burned with acid and crushed by a metal ball and kept fighting
There are more insane feats, but I think this already proves that none of them will give in to fatigue



Well, I saw that Kouki can make people weak using light, but I think that if Mash noticed this he would adapt
He would probably use the underground mobility to take Kouki by surprise and defeat him with a choke (This works even if the opponent has extrasensory perception)
 
Mash manages to constantly evolve in fights on a massive scale. Hell, he managed to go from 7-C to 7-B+ in a few hours after a few minutes of fighting. Mash also usually finishes fights very quickly, how fast is this ability?
Limit Break-Overlord just need to think to be activated, though the characters like to usualy yell the name. His own RE not only make him stronger but also make him develop new techniques or powers.
  • Can discover someone's style more than 1000 times his speed by being hit several times
  • Turned a magic that almost killed him into basically a toy after the second time Cell War used the spell
  • Can analyze the movement of an attack more than 7 times his speed after seeing the magic once
The scene against the dude that stealed his speed was impressive, but it was do to the arena and be in a situation in which he couldn't move (though I'm sure he could have moved way before Mash reached him and stomped his foot, the fact that he only noticed how near Mash was so late show that he didn't payed attention to him), which with Kouki would happen since he can fly with platform creation, he can also use barriers to defend and slow down the attack even just a instant which have be enough to save him before, he also have his instinctive reaction to automatically defend and his senses which are pretty good would also help him. The other side also didn't do much damage (only shallows cuts) despite the amount of attacks he did, which show that his AP was nowhere near the durability of Mash.

And about the second one, Kouki can react and fight without problem against Hajime speed even with his 12x speed amp, the Dark King was also blitzing him until Kouki used Serene Mind and the Dark King become unable to perceive him.

Also, Kouki literally have resistance to enhances senses, extrasensory perception and Telepathy since even characters with crazy senses are unable to feel him when in sword saint mode (aka Serene Mind). Even Mother was unable to completely react against him despite his calculation speed and analysis which predicted the future based on muscle move, gaze, and even the faintest nerve signal.
  • Mash had every part of his body crushed and cut off and managed to beat an opponent more than 1000 times his speed with precision by analyzing
  • He can fight someone over 10 times his strength even without his spine
  • Tougher than Dot, someone who had his body completely annihilated and cut up, burned with acid and crushed by a metal ball and kept fighting
There are more insane feats, but I think this already proves that none of them will give in to fatigue
In principle unless I didn't saw some other fight scene of Mash he never have reached this level of damage:
Looking at him once more, Koukiโ€™s state was really atrocious.

There was all kind of sizes of wounds throughout his body. Few places were unharmed. He was blood drenched all over his body, his brown hair was dyed dark red by his own blood and enemyโ€™s blood. His breathing was shallow and faint, it sounded like it would stop anytime now. His side that could be seen from the gap of his torn clothes was warped, perhaps it was because his ribcage was broken and changed shapeโ€ฆโ€ฆ

The sword that changed shape was gripped in only one hand, because his other arm was broken all over from the shoulder until the fist.
ใ€Œโ€•โ€•tsuu!!ใ€

Kouki was falling with a voiceless yell on the cross bridges a level above.

He bounced and then almost slid off from the bridge. Seeing that Hajime leaped that way and pulled Koukiโ€™s leg to prevent him from falling off.

ใ€ŒUwaaโ€ฆโ€ฆare you alright over there huhใ€

ใ€ŒIโ€™m not, alrightโ€•โ€•coughใ€

Hajime reflexively let go of Koukiโ€™s foot. That leg was twisted to a wrong direction and dangled powerlessly. It seemed his arm was also broken. It looked like the heat blade had grazed his side. Although no blood was leaking out, there was a scar with the flesh scraped off over there.

...

ใ€Œโ€ฆโ€ฆHow are you two standing?ใ€

ใ€ŒGuts, perhaps?ใ€

ใ€ŒAre you Shia huh?ใ€

Motherโ€™s gaze was directed at Kouki. Yes, toward Kouki who was standing normally even with his broken leg.

โ€•โ€•Limit Breakโ€™s special derivative War Demon

It was a power that made it possible for the user to continue fighting by using magic power as gypsum replacement inside the body until their body was smashed to pieces. Therefore Koukiโ€™s broken arm was also looking normal.
This was even when he was nerfed. Kouki have also fought for more time than Mash so in a long fight Kouki will last more.
Well, I saw that Kouki can make people weak using light, but I think that if Mash noticed this he would adapt
He would probably use the underground mobility to take Kouki by surprise and defeat him with a choke (This works even if the opponent has extrasensory perception)
The weakening effect have never mattered in one of his fights, like, never, so if he actually begin to do weird things because of it would be detrimental to him.

What are the feats of extrasensory perception of the characters in Mashle? Because in Arifureta the characters have some absurd shit like detect spatial alterations before they happened, even a normal human can detect something like a small robotic bug about to explode in the middle of a shooting:
Allen smiled bitterly while exchanging his magazine with the new one and put away the half-used magazine. And then, he pulled out a pin from his wristwatch and dropped it on the floor. Immediately, small legs like an insectโ€™s flew out from the pin.

Allen rotated the rotatable bezel of the watch halfway round. Right after that, the windbreak part of the watch turned into a display that projected the image on the floor level.

ใ€ŒThis is the prided article of a real-life Q. Just watch it thoroughly to your heartโ€™s content.ใ€

The small metallic bug moved its legs with a rattling sound and advanced toward the location of Weiss who was shooting his machine gun while talking provocatively. Allen was watching his watchโ€™s display while controlling the small insect using the bezelโ€™s rotation.

Like that, the feet of Weiss were visible inside the display. Allen grinned widely, but as expected, the one over there was Weiss, whose obstinacy was on the level of a cockroach. Just before Allen could press the button, Weiss suddenly noticed something below him. He discovered the metallic thing with strange legs crawling below him, and his cheeks twitched grandly.

The next instant, DOOON- an explosive sound echoed, and the gunshots stopped.
And about asphyxiation, I honestly don't know how effective would be since not only would be pretty hard for him accomplish that, but Kouki can continue to fight even unconscious for three days.
Thanks to rolling down on the ground, Moana finally could see the face of Kouki that was looking down. At the same time, she noticed the abnormality.

ใ€ŒKou, kiโ€ฆโ€ฆใ€

There was no light in those half closed eyes. Those eyes were empty, they werenโ€™t looking at anywhere.

ใ€ŒIt looks likeโ€ฆโ€ฆhe is alive. But, he is unconscious. What theโ€ฆโ€ฆใ€

ใ€ŒUnbelievableโ€ฆโ€ฆใ€

Both Spenser and Lilin lost their words. Moana too also the same.

That was understandable.

Just who in the world could possibly imagine someone fighting while being unconscious.
 
Only one for Kouki so far?
I mean, if you feel like they are too few you can also vote.
I'll try to comment tomorrow, since Mash will now get some more interesting stuff
Honestly, don't how will change anything. Like, in Arifureta the characters already can sense how strong someone is, most of the characters with good sixth senses also know the danger before it happened. And the stealth mastery is completely useless since in this point he not only have faced and defeated monsters able to hide their presences to the point of become invisible despite actually not be invisible, but he can even feel Kousuke who had a naturally weak presence to the point even before he was whisked away to Tortus, even automatic doors in Japan ignored him, the presence of the dude is so weak that not even his family despite how much they love him are able to perceive or remember him most of the time, the futuristic sensors of Mother were also unable to perceive him btw.
 
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