Mash Burnedead and the God's Apostle Rematch (Mash vs Kouki)

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I mean, people of Gahard and Meld tier don't really have feats near 70 levels monsters be it either in ap or speed or feats near FTL (they would actually have a lot of anti feats of anything even close that), those with said level of feats are people at hero party level and above

I never said Gahard is FTL, I said it is impossible for him to be subsonic and defeat FTL characters through sword skill. You are missing the point here. I even gave an example of downscaling. You are creating information in my comment that does not even exist

Though by that logic then the battle of Mash against the dude that stealed his speed, thus making Mash move at slow motion even to normal human standard, is also illogical because Mash wouldn't had been able to close the distance without the dude noticing.

Except that they are completely different things, and when I say completely, it is because it is completely. In the battle against Abyss at no time was Mash able to deflect, block or even see the enemy attacks. He was literally cut in more than a thousand places, even in the neck. The only impressive thing about this feat is how Mash is able to analyze the opponent's position and use area-based attacks to catch the enemy. That was a comparison with no real value here

Now though if you try to claim that Mash one-shot or nearly do you will need to prove a 7x ap difference.

Except that you don't have to be 7.5 times stronger for this to happen, you can very well use logic in matches. Again, look at the example matches I showed you. Another notable one is Alien X vs Saitama

Since Saitama can one shot a Baseline Low 5-B, he one shots a Baseline Low 5-B in a versus thread too. The 7.5X rules is only meant for AP gaps with numbers, that way you don't put someone over 7.5X stronger against someone else. But if they have feats of one shotting a character at a certain level, they can one shot that level in versus threads.

We don't make them 7.5X stronger, they just can one shot like they can in their own verse.

Kouki simply cannot hurt Mash's body with physical attacks and will automatically be killed if he is hit

I don't see a reason to vote different compared to the last thread

There is a lot of difference

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mash FRA anyway

Regeneration, Body Control, Density Manipulation, better LS, Stealth Mastery, shockwave creation and immense power

Main reasons ig

I also want to discuss more about this stamina and skill stuff if this match still continues

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Mash FRA anyway

Regeneration, Body Control, Density Manipulation, better LS, Stealth Mastery, shockwave creation and immense power

Main reasons ig

I also want to discuss more about this stamina and skill stuff if this match still continues

As usual, counted

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The AP thing is blatantly wrong and you specifically need a 7x gap for one-shot (unless you hit in a weak post in which case the gap can be wrong), and one-shotting in one verse don't mean one-shotting anyone below the base scaling value in a versus thread.

However, if you are so absolutely sure that Mash one-shot and Kouki can't do physical damage to him then I assume you wouldn't have a problem with using the Auralodde key.

Mash FRA anyway

Regeneration, Body Control, Density Manipulation, better LS, Stealth Mastery, shockwave creation and immense power

Main reasons ig

I also want to discuss more about this stamina and skill stuff if this match still continues

Mid-Low Regeneration... really? Like, that level of regen isn't impressive, specially since he have fought against armies of thousands of onis (who are able to regenerate their heads and even the upper half of their body) and metal liquid machines:

The part of the starfish imitation that was splattered away fell on the floor. It then immediately flowed like water and returned to its main body before getting absorbed into it. The part that was blown away was also returning back to normal in the blink of eye.

So Kouki have faced opponents with far better regeneration than Mash so this isn't a problem to him. Futhermore Kouki also have his own regen (though minor) and his healing magic (middle level recovery spells can easily heal things like broken bones, organ damage and serious/deep wounds, while high level recovery magic can heal people near dead, with Divine Veil he also can basically himself continuosly with low level magic) and medicine (which can easily heal broken bones, severe organ damage and fatal wounds on top of recover the stamina and mana lost in a matter of seconds), so Kouki have better recovery abilities.

If by Body Control you mean Mash using his muscles to hold Kouki sword then he can easily counter by making the sword turn mountain sized inside of his body or by making it so small that slip off. Also, even small characters like Ned (who is near the level of a tertiary character in a pirate crew) can do that with their muscles so it's possible that that don't actually surprise Kouki

Ned tightened his muscles, trapping her sword in place, and swung his fist at her.

If Mash turn resistant against piercing damage Kouki can easily use magic to increase the piercing power of his sword and a piercing specialized technique from the Yaegashi style, he can also use use magic in general or attack in other ways aside from piercing.

The Stealth Mastery of Mash is just useless, by the simple fact that Kouki can detect Kousuke with his level of stealth which make the stealth of Mash useless, additionally Kouki presence detection scale above Oscar Labyrinth level monsters with each monsters having a higher level of stealth and he also scale above the Haulia who even people from races with far better senses than human ones can't detect even when they are in front of them. Futhermore the fact that even warriors at Chris level (who probably is below even Gahard level) can dodge invisible spatial attacks just with instincts make trying to hit someone of Kouki level pretty hard:

Chris readied himself to cut down this knight as well, but just then his battle-honed instincts warned him to retreat.

“Not good!”

He kicked his subordinate out of the crow’s nest and leaped out right after him. A second later, some invisible force struck the platform, gouging deep furrows into the wood.

Kouki himself also have show to dodge by instincts even in his earlier keys and by the beginning of the after stories key he was capable of dodging the surprise teleportation danmaku attacks from all directions from the Dark King (I don't show the quote because that part is long). So is gonna be really hard trying to hit Kouki by surprise, hit him in general will be hard but by surprise even more. Actually, the one who would be unable to detect the opponent moves would be Mash because of Kouki ability as sword saint:

(Due to becoming a sword saint his attacks and emotions can’t be sensed even by Koone despite her good senses which can read the thoughts and feelings of others. The Dark King is unable to perceive him and even Mother is unable to react to him)

Mash Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction would also be nulled by Kouki Serene Mind since he countered even Mother with her info analysis with it, the same Mother who info analysis let her reconstruct from the scrap of a explosion a machine able to teleport to other worlds.

Shockwave generation is a really common ability in Arifureta (like, everyone of the hero party, except Eri, already have it by their third keys or so), I mean his best friend, for example, as one of his main moves use shockwaves to do internal damage and ignore durability, so even far before his after stories key Kouki was already accustomed to fight against people with shockwave generation.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Remind me to never make a thread against a light novel character please

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Remind me to never make a thread against a light novel character please

I mean, I think the same would probably happen with people from other series long in general, Arifureta have more tha 420 chapters in the web novel alone without counting the extra content from the light novel or the spin off Zero.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I mean, I think the same would probably happen with people from other series long in general, Arifureta have more tha 420 chapters in the web novel alone without counting the extra content from the light novel or the spin off Zero.

Yeah, Mashlenis going to be around 150-200 chapters, maybe 250 at most. It seems the author really has a set end goal, considering they once said the series was halfway over, but extended it, maybe because of Shueisha telling him so.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mid-Low Regeneration... really? Like, that level of regen isn't impressive, specially since he have fought against armies of thousands of onis (who are able to regenerate their heads and even the upper half of their body) and metal liquid machines

Yes, "really". The fact that you may not think it is something impressive does not take away from the fact that it is extremely useful. Hell, Mash scales massively above Kouki's base AP (something that I doubt massively if any of these onis possess) and is still able to regenerate. Do you really think that someone who is able to recover from an injury that destroys his entire spine almost in moments is something "useless"? Come on, man. This simply means that if Kouki actually manages to hit any useful point of Mash's body it would still be useless, since it would be nullified in a few moments

Futhermore Kouki also have his own regen (though minor) and his healing magic (middle level recovery spells can easily heal things like broken bones, organ damage and serious/deep wounds, while high level recovery magic can heal people near dead, with Divine Veil he also can basically himself continuosly with low level magic) and medicine (which can easily heal broken bones, severe organ damage and fatal wounds on top of recover the stamina and mana lost in a matter of seconds), so Kouki have better recovery abilities.

But Mash's regeneration does the same thing

Except regenerate stamina. But considering Mash hasn't even sweat at any point in the entire series so far, I doubt he's going to get tired here

And how is this " healing " used?

If by Body Control you mean Mash using his muscles to hold Kouki sword then he can easily counter by making the sword turn mountain sized inside of his body or by making it so small that slip off. Also, even small characters like Ned (who is near the level of a tertiary character in a pirate crew) can do that with their muscles so it's possible that that don't actually surprise Kouki

• Kouki doesn't even have size manipulation in his profile, so I'm not sure if this is valid, or even true. Also, when you say "mountain size" do you mean in length or in any existing dimension of the sword? Because, it's quite different for a sword to increase in size like this than something like this. Besides, I doubt very much that he will start this the very moment he is caught by the muscles.
• An inferior character being able to do this doesn't mean that Kouki won't be surprised or be somewhat dangerous, this would only happen if he fight someone who does this. Especially if you have your sword crushed by a force thousands of times greater than your own (Class Z vs Class G)

If Mash turn resistant against piercing damage Kouki can easily use magic to increase the piercing power of his sword and a piercing specialized technique from the Yaegashi style, he can also use use magic in general or attack in other ways aside from piercing.

As far as I know he still starts out using his swor, so it is still useful, especially at the beginning of the battle. Mash already faced with characters who can amplify their piercing attacks btw (And how big is this increase?), so well. And I recommend you specify what kinds of magics these are and which ones he starts, because if not I can just say "Mash always wins magic, so GG"

The Stealth Mastery of Mash is just useless, by the simple fact that Kouki can detect Kousuke with his level of stealth which make the stealth of Mash useless

This guy is not a Stealth Mastery user, he looks more like a guy with an Aura Suppression. He is not using stealth techniques or anything like that, he simply has an extremely weak aura

Oscar Labyrinth level monsters with each monsters having a higher level of stealth

If this "having a higher level of stealth" is referring to Kousuke, then again it is simply Aura Suppression

and he also scale above the Haulia who even people from races with far better senses than human ones can't detect even when they are in front of them

Zero while extremely weakened by his body being constantly destroyed, so that he cannot even use magic in a proper way, was able to feel the fight of Domina and Mash, who were several kilometers away. Now Mash, who at the moment was in a world where time was stopped and practically everything was silent, was able to take Zero by surprise, even when he needs to move his legs at high speed to be able to fly and reach him. So I think Mash is partially above that

Futhermore the fact that even warriors at Chris level (who probably is below even Gahard level) can dodge invisible spatial attacks just with instincts make trying to hit someone of Kouki level pretty hard

Zero has no ears, no mouth, and no nose, and yet he is able to keep up with magics that obliterate spells that see the world as superficial. By "world" he means even inferior space spells, since it was even shown devouring Whalberg's basic space magic. Most likely it also refers to time-based spells that are inferior to Zero's, since it is stated that there are other personal magics-time in the world, and yet dark magic is considered above anything known

Kouki himself also have show to dodge by instincts even in his earlier keys and by the beginning of the after stories key he was capable of dodging the surprise teleportation danmaku attacks from all directions from the Dark King

Mash has already done all this

Mash Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction would also be nulled by Kouki Serene Mind since he countered even Mother with her info analysis with it, the same Mother who info analysis let her reconstruct from the scrap of a explosion a machine able to teleport to other worlds.

Wtf is Kouki Serene Mind.

Reading Mother's profile it is also noticeable that "Kouki Serene Mind" is not something passive.

Also, they look like different types of analytical prediction

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yes, "really". The fact that you may not think it is something impressive does not take away from the fact that it is extremely useful. Hell, Mash scales massively above Kouki's base AP (something that I doubt massively if any of these onis possess) and is still able to regenerate. Do you really think that someone who is able to recover from an injury that destroys his entire spine almost in moments is something "useless"? Come on, man. This simply means that if Kouki actually manages to hit any useful point of Mash's body it would still be useless, since it would be nullified in a few moments

But Mash's regeneration does the same thing

Except regenerate stamina. But considering Mash hasn't even sweat at any point in the entire series so far, I doubt he's going to get tired here

And how is this " healing " used?

Actually since he was fighting the true high ranking onis they were comparable to him and Ootakemaru is equal to Hidzuki/Shuten Douji who can fight against Shia so he arguable could even have higher AP than Kouki, and the starfish were stronger than the weakened Kouki that fought against them.

I mean, how long have Mash ever fought? Because Hajime level people could fight from dozens of hours to various days, Kouki himself have fought for three days without problem in the past and later fought for three days in a half dead state unconsciouss while using all his magic to protect a city and hia body to fight an army of thousands, so the stamina feats in Mash profile don't seem as impressive compared when talking about time fought or the degree of wounds withstood.

He just say the name of the spell and he is healed, in the case of the highest level magic he just need a short chanting.

Though now that I think about it he have the smartphone so he automatically revive when die.

• Kouki doesn't even have size manipulation in his profile, so I'm not sure if this is valid, or even true. Also, when you say "mountain size" do you mean in length or in any existing dimension of the sword? Because, it's quite different for a sword to increase in size like this than something like this. Besides, I doubt very much that he will start this the very moment he is caught by the muscles.

As far as I know he still starts out using his swor, so it is still useful, especially at the beginning of the battle. Mash already faced with characters who can amplify their piercing attacks btw (And how big is this increase?), so well. And I recommend you specify what kinds of magics these are and which ones he starts, because if not I can just say "Mash always wins magic, so GG"

This guy is not a Stealth Mastery user, he looks more like a guy with an Aura Suppression. He is not using stealth techniques or anything like that, he simply has an extremely weak aura

If this "having a higher level of stealth" is referring to Kousuke, then again it is simply Aura Suppression

Zero while extremely weakened by his body being constantly destroyed, so that he cannot even use magic in a proper way, was able to feel the fight of Domina and Mash, who were several kilometers away. Now Mash, who at the moment was in a world where time was stopped and practically everything was silent, was able to take Zero by surprise, even when he needs to move his legs at high speed to be able to fly and reach him. So I think Mash is partially above that

Zero has no ears, no mouth, and no nose, and yet he is able to keep up with magics that obliterate spells that see the world as superficial. By "world" he means even inferior space spells, since it was even shown devouring Whalberg's basic space magic. Most likely it also refers to time-based spells that are inferior to Zero's, since it is stated that there are other personal magics-time in the world, and yet dark magic is considered above anything known

Wtf is Kouki Serene Mind.

Reading Mother's profile it is also noticeable that "Kouki Serene Mind" is not something passive.

Also, they look like different types of analytical prediction

Change the size of a weapon is classified as weapon control, which is why is there. He can do both, extend just the length of the sword like the Ashura clip or also increase the width of the sword along with it.

Actually since they start at 4 km aparts by SBA he would begin with either a flock of light dragons, a light dragon kilometers in size (though seem like the spell description in the profile have outdated his range by saying it only reach 1 km) or by making his sword big, that are his main options when facing opponents at such distances.

No? Like, is true that his natural presence is weak to the point that not even machines react and people forget him, but after gain magic and skill he trained and improved his stealth abilities which is why he can turn invisible with his assassin skills, and is why by the current point his stealth reached the level of erasure of existence instead of pressence, there was also the time when he far surpassed in stealth a creature born from the conception of be undetectable, and there is also how Mother sensors are incapable to detect him and even she forget his existence do to his stealth.

The higher level thing was that at each floor of the labyrinth the monsters are better at hiding themselves, their pressence, heat, mana, smell, and even higher levels of invisibility despite how weird that is.

Sorry but I don't understand the point, I mean if he normally don't have those senses don't that mean that he just rely in his extrasensory perseption? The point with bringing Chris was more to show how despite be incapable to sense the attack with his senses (both normal and esp senses) his battle instincts were still capable to make him dodge. Also, those spatial spell are supposed to be imperceptible to normal people? Because they look quite visible and perceptible to the characters.

Serene Mind is basically the name of when Kouki turn serious, is the name of the skill that represent one of the summits of swordmanship, the summit of be imperceptible.

He quite literally just need to think in fight seriously to use it.

I mean, she use the info recolected with her sensors and analyse it with her calculation power to know what the opponent will do and the best thing to do.