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Knuckles VS Tails (Knuckles: 5, Tails: 8, Inconclusive: 1) [[CONCLUDED]]

ElixirBlue said:
Yeah, combat skill is the deciding factor for Super forms. If this was base, there would be a better argument for Tails.
Knuckles FRA
Click to expand...
Combat skill is way more relevant in base than super, physical fights are pointless in super because of invulnerability, it's who has more of a strategic mind of using hax wins here
 
I was just saying it would be a fairer fight for Tails in Base form because of the access to machines that can hurt Knuckles.
 
Hm... interesting discussion we could have for a base fight but we should save it since we are in the middle of discussing super forms.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Hm... interesting discussion we could have for a base fight but we should save it since we are in the middle of discussing super forms.
Click to expand...
You can make Archie Tails vs Archie Knuckles with base form fights. That would not make two fights with the same characters
 
No, Archie Sonic is the only most notable Base Haxed. Archie Tails only got into machinery in Ian Flynn's run and he didn't have a lot of time to establish Archie Tails's equipment. For a long time, the machinery was handled by Rotor, Tails's Senpai.

Game Base Tails vs Game Base Knuckles would be interesting but I guess that isn't going to be possible anymore.

Actually, looking on Archie Tails's wiki page, none of the machinery he does have is listed, like the Tornado or T-Pup.
 
ElixirBlue said:
No, Archie Sonic is the only most notable based Haxed. Archie Tails only got into machinery in Ian Flynn's run and he didn't have a lot of time to establish Archie Tails's equipment. For a long time, the machinery was handled by Rotor, Tails's Senpai.
Game Base Tails vs Game Base Knuckles would be interesting but I guess that isn't going to be possible anymore.

Actually, looking on Archie Tails's wiki page, none of the machinery he does have is listed, like the Tornado or T-Pup.
Click to expand...
I could change it to base Tails vs base Knuckles, but Knuckles is now 5-A if we use Modern forms so he stomps.

Adventure Knuckles is still Planet Level+ though, so he doesn't AP stomps Modern Tails
 
Bump

Btw, I specified that I refer to Low 2-C Super Tails and Super Knuckles. Don't know if it really matters all that much
 
Flickies won't help much due to invulnerability and the gadgets won't last for a second because they're not designed to keep up with superforms. Didn't Eggman have to prepare ahead of time to make machines that could do anything to Sonic in his superform (i'm bringing this up because Eggman and Tails are comperable in intelligence)? What would lead you to believe Tails' machines can do anything to superforms?
 
Never said they would do anything, both physical attacks won't help either, it's just Tails has the range advantage and is smarter to not use physical blows faster than Knuckles

Because those machines weren't powered by the Chaos Emeralds, unlike here with Tails who is on his super form
 
And Knuckles is powered by the Master Emerald. If i rembember correctly, the Master Emerald can actually shut the power of the Chaos Emeralds down, which would be a big oof for Tails.
 
No he is not, Super Knuckles uses the regular emeralds, Idk if we assume he has the Master Emerald or not here
 
Knux does use it's power in character, so he could shut down or at least weaken Tails to the point that Knuckles would be more likely to hurt Tails then vise versa.
 
Why would the master emerald would matter anyways? I already restricted them to just Super forms and they start when they're already transformed.

Neither need the master emerald to turn Super
 
Gilad Hyperstar said:
Why would the master emerald would matter anyways? I already restricted them to just Super forms and they start when they're already transformed.
Neither need the master emerald to turn Super
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Both need emeralds to go super, and if Tails has the Chaos Emeralds then Knuckles would logically have the Master Emerald. As for why it matters, well, as i said Knuckles can shut the Chaos Emeralds down with the Master Emerald, so he could weaken Tails' superform to the point that he could harm Tails but Tails would be unable to harm Knuckles still.
 
Tails would still have his invulnerability though, and both are Low 2-C. Also, the flickies can distract Knuckles. Also, Knuckles need the chaos emeralds too to transform, so if he weakens them, he'll be weaker too
 
True, but context is key here; Sonic and Shadow (as well as Silver in '06) used the emeralds simultaniously because they had a common enemy in both cases, but here Tails and Knuckles fight against eachother so they would have to use separate sources of power. With this in mind, Knuckles would certainly use the Master Emerald if he needs it to weaken Tails. Also, while it's true that Knuckles doesn't usually use the Master Emerald to go super, it's still reasonable to say he can. Not only has it been used by Mecha Sonic to do so (who, keep in mind, doesn't have the connection the the emerald that Knuckles has allowing Knuckles to draw from it's power) but it holds more chaos energy then the Chaos Emeralds do. Also, even if Knuckles has to weaken himself just to get rid of the invulnerability it won't really matter as he's still far stronger then Tails and has him beat in skill and experience.
 
GalacticIron said:
True, but context is key here; Sonic and Shadow (as well as Silver in '06) used the emeralds simultaniously because they had a common enemy in both cases, but here Tails and Knuckles fight against eachother so they would have to use separate sources of power. With this in mind, Knuckles would certainly use the Master Emerald if he needs it to weaken Tails. Also, while it's true that Knuckles doesn't usually use the Master Emerald to go super, it's still reasonable to say he can. Not only has it been used by Mecha Sonic to do so (who, keep in mind, doesn't have the connection the the emerald that Knuckles has allowing Knuckles to draw from it's power) but it holds more chaos energy then the Chaos Emeralds do. Also, even if Knuckles has to weaken himself just to get rid of the invulnerability it won't really matter as he's still far stronger then Tails and has him beat in skill and experience.
Click to expand...
I don't think that the "common enemy" argument really matters. What matters is that both Tails and Knuckles can transform with the same source (Chaos Emeralds. And even in Sonic Heroes you see all of Team Sonic using the chaos emeralds to transform), and the Master Emerald doesn't appear in the fight anyways (Not that it matters, since it can't power-up Knuckles further since he can't go Hyper here)
 
They can because they work together. Why do you think we don't see Sonic and Shadow use the emeralds to go super when they try to settle a fight between themselves? They fight against eachother here so they're inevitibly going to rely on diffrent sources. And yes i does matter because despite Knuckles not having his hyperform he does draw power from the Master Emerald even in his base form (it allowes him to sense the pressence of emeralds and shards and is also used to explain some of his wackier powers in his base form like shooting lightning and punching explosions). And as mentioned before he can nullify the Chaos Emeralds to pretty much negate the invulnerability.
 
@OP, does Knuckles have the Master Emerald or not? Because you made the match so you decide

And we did see in other media super forms fight by using the same source like in X and Archie, I doubt that's needed for the games

Plus even in game canon in SA1 both Sonic and Chaos use the emeralds to transform, not diferent sources
 
I used then like examples, and still, the emeralds have unlimeted power, point is two people can transform togheter and the OP didn't put the Master Emerald at the fight
 
Still, since we're explicitly using canon Tails and Knuckles we have to stick to what's canon. In Sonic Unleashed Sonic basically absorbed the emeralds and Eggman had to rely on a machine specifically to physically pull them out of him. Chaos only drew from their negative energy and ejected the emeralds themselves once he had that power, so that's how Sonic had emeralds to pull power from and they still had all their positive energy, the only reason why it was believed he couldn't use the emeralds after Chaos took their negative energy is because no one had ever used their positive energy to transform before.
 
Theuser789 said:
@OP, does Knuckles have the Master Emerald or not? Because you made the match so you decide
And we did see in other media super forms fight by using the same source like in X and Archie, I doubt that's needed for the games

Plus even in game canon in SA1 both Sonic and Chaos use the emeralds to transform, not diferent sources
Click to expand...
No. Why would he need it anyway? They both transform with the chaos emeralds, and @User made it clear that both can transform with them at the same time.

I just chose this location since this is where Sonic and Knuckles first fought.

Even if he had it, it won't power him even further
 
Because Eggman can't use Chaos Energy without machines, that's why he used one, furthermore OP just confirmed the Master Emerald isn't here, so point moot
 
Even in the early games, the only times where he used chaos energy is when the Master Emerald was powering it (Sonic 3 & Knuckles final boss and Doomsday bosses)
 
I really don't understand why you guys have such a hard time understanding what i'm trying to get at, so i'll do my best to disect your questions and points to try to get my point across.

Why would Knuckles need the Master Emerald anyway? To put it simply, how much power the Master Emerald gives to Knuckles is not relevant, it's the abilities that the emerald has that matter. Most notably, the fact that it can shut the power of the Chaos Emeralds down as mentioned on it's profile, which is an ability that Knuckles himself has used in the games.

Characters can transform using the same source. Yes this is technically true, but every time this was done the emeralds were used by characters working together and using them to transform at the same time. In the context of this match-up (where they fight against eachother instead of working together) it just makes more sense for them to use seperate sources of power rather then both using the Chaos Emeralds, since it wouldn't require struggling to get the Chaos Emeralds in the first place on Knuckles' side (assuming Tails has the emeralds). As i mentioned, characters basically absorb the emeralds upon going super and said emeralds have only been removed while a character was in their superform by a machine specifically designed to do so. Eggman being unable to use the emeralds without machines is not relevant to the point i was trying to convey, what i tried to say was that Chaos' transformation works diffrently from the characters that have superforms because he doesn't keep the emeralds inside his body unlike Sonic and others (this is not limitted to Unleased by the way, Sonic and other characters physically absorbing the emeralds, Chaos Emeralds or otherrwise, is consistant throughout the series in general).
 
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