Kirito vs Raiden

[Robo432343]

Kirito (Post-Aincrad)

Kirigaya Kazuto (桐ヶ谷 和人, Kirigaya Kazuto), born as Narusaka Kazuto (鳴坂 和人なるさか かずと, Narusaka Kazuto), and known as «Kirito» (キリト, Kirito) in «Sword Art Online» is the protagonist of the main Sword Art Online series. Kirito was chosen to be one of the one thousand beta testers for the closed beta...

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vs

Raiden (Metal Gear)

As a young boy, Jack lived in the turbulence and violence of the Liberian Civil War and was orphaned at a young age by Solidus Snake, who raised him as his own and groomed him to become a killing machine of a child soldier who gained the title of Jack the Ripper, the White Devil, making quite...

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SBA
Distance: Whatever distance is fair
Speed Equal

 

[CurrySenpai]

Stomp, Raiden can do literally nothing about Incarnation which is Subjective Reality, Probability Manip, Law Manip, etc. Kirito can also fly, which is a MAJOR Issue, that coupled with the Blue Rose Sword AND Night-Sky Swords ability to freeze and take in life force (respectivevly) yeah it's not really fair.

Kirito can also turn Raiden into a tree if he really wants.

 

[Robo432343]

Stomp, Raiden can do literally nothing about Incarnation which is Subjective Reality, Probability Manip, Law Manip, etc. Kirito can also fly, which is a MAJOR Issue, that coupled with the Blue Rose Sword AND Night-Sky Swords ability to freeze and take in life force (respectivevly) yeah it's not really fair.

Kirito can also turn Raiden into a tree if he really wants

Incarnation is not good
"Because of Incarnation's passive nature based on the imagination and willpower of the individual, at worst, if the user thinks a situation is hopeless or impossible to succeed, Incarnation will instead have a negative effect and make that situation true."
"(Belief in one's own strength will amplify one's own power, however the opposite can happen to the user as well if they are not confident in a matchup"
"If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)"
Also the law manip is limited and Raiden has a massive speed advantage"
also where is the scan of incarnation automatically making kirito win a fight??
i think this is pretty even

 

[CurrySenpai]

Incarnation is not good
"Because of Incarnation's passive nature based on the imagination and willpower of the individual, at worst, if the user thinks a situation is hopeless or impossible to succeed, Incarnation will instead have a negative effect and make that situation true."
"(Belief in one's own strength will amplify one's own power, however the opposite can happen to the user as well if they are not confident in a matchup"
"If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)"
Also the law manip is limited and Raiden has a massive speed advantage"
also where is the scan of incarnation automatically making kirito win a fight??
i think this is pretty even

There's no real reason for Kirito to believe he's weaker than Raiden off the bat, and even then, the only instance we see Incarnation effect Kirito in such a way is the first novel of Alicization and never gonna because he learns about these effects. Raiden would have to do some pretty crazy stuff to make Kirito believe there is a non-zero chance he can win.

On the scan, that's how it works? If you believe in yourself, you win, and different events in fights are made into interactions that you always win. Kirito, especially in this key, is connected to the essence of the world that MAKES this phonemna happen. There's a blog by Xmark12 with scans on all this, but one example was Kirito's teacher vs. another Swordsman. In terms of skill Serlut was stronger than her opponent, and should have one, but due to the absolute confidence in his own attacks and her own contempt she held for her sword style she lost.

If you believe you win, it's that simple, and an Incarnation like concept doesn't exist in MGSR so you can't use Verse Equalization

 

[CurrySenpai]

Also, Incarnation not being good... Kirito has Time Manip, Telepathy, can produce numerous projectiles with a thought, fly, etc.

Also, the abilities I mentioned earlier are just going to trounce Raiden, this isn't fair Kirito just has too much stuff Raiden cannot deal with and incarnation is the very enormous cherry on top.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah tier 7 Kirito is actually competent in hax

While I apsolutely agree that Incarnation is not that good, especially wince Kiriro would lose any weapon he tries to engage Raiden with and is likely to get bisected for his trouble...

But SK Kirito doesn't lead with melee, he leads with unresisted hax.

Like, yes, if Kirito tries a swordfight with Jack, he's better off using his own sword as a ***** rather than an actual weapon, since Jack WILL skillstomp him no diff, and that shit is demoralizing, but Kirito will not be going for melee

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah tier 7 Kirito is actually competent in hax

While I apsolutely agree that Incarnation is not that good, especially wince Kiriro would lose any weapon he tries to engage Raiden with and is likely to get bisected for his trouble...

But SK Kirito doesn't lead with melee, he leads with unresisted hax.

Like, yes, if Kirito tries a swordfight with Jack, he's better off using his own sword as a ***** rather than an actual weapon, since Jack WILL skillstomp him no diff, and that shit is demoralizing, but Kirito will not be going for melee

I don't think the skill difference is that bad, mainly because this is Alicization Kirito who, in this key, has much more formal swordsmanship and good wins against what was a nigh-omniscient being with knowledge over all Sword Skills and techniques, and 100+ year old knights who commend his skill despite him being so young.

Really, OP needs to clarify if this is Star King Kirito, or End of Alicization Kirito, as Star King has been alive 200 years and is stated to have only gotten stronger during that time, whereas End of Alicization is still just 19 years old mentally, but with the previous feats mentioned.

And yeah... Kirito starts with hax, not actual swordsmanship, most if not all of the final half of alicization is just people using hax to kill each other first so they don't ACTUALLY have to clash blades.

Edit: SKK is also much less nonchalant and will definitely use whatever hax he can to instantly end the fight, including the really OP Law Manip from Quinella

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think the skill difference is that bad, mainly because this is Alicization Kirito who, in this key, has much more formal swordsmanship and good wins against what was a nigh-omniscient being with knowledge over all Sword Skills and techniques, and 100+ year old knights who commend his skill despite him being so young.

Really, OP needs to clarify if this is Star King Kirito, or End of Alicization Kirito, as Star King has been alive 200 years and is stated to have only gotten stronger during that time, whereas End of Alicization is still just 19 years old mentally, but with the previous feats mentioned.

And yeah... Kirito starts with hax, not actual swordsmanship, most if not all of the final half of alicization is just people using hax to kill each other first so they don't ACTUALLY have to clash blades.

Edit: SKK is also much less nonchalant and will definitely use whatever hax he can to instantly end the fight, including the really OP Law Manip from Quinella

If Kirito can read a book and get sword skills good enough to 1v1 a guy who can do things as **** over machine guns and armies with just a sword at his lowest point of skill.

Current Raiden is like 15 skillfucks above that.

"Do note that Raiden's at the top of a huge scaling chain where the bottom of it, is genetically spliced super soldiers with enhanced senses and based on data from other super soldiers (Like Null and Gene), virtual training and eclipse any soldier on earth and are above dudes who eclipse any soldiers on earth, have fought in multiple wars, deemed super soldiers, have analytical prediction and even psionic abilities, can clear whole rooms of trained elite men armed with weapons with no guns themselves while being attacked all at once and are for the most part, straight up superhuman, all the while knowing a multitude of various combat styles to the point of perfection and were deemed weapons in and of themselves.
And that's ******* shit trash that isn't even worth mentioning, who are below the other shit trash that are the equivalent of a goomba.
And then there's like ten skill ***** inbetween those and then Raiden himself.
And then he becomes a robot and just gets more skilled, he also has reactive PL, but instead of power, it's skill.
Like dude can pick up a sword, and within minutes start out skilling trained elites who are experts with the blade who all wear cybernetic tengu suits while he himself is a twink with no such suit.
As a child he was forced to have fought in wars and was so good, he was given the title jack the ripper because he got a stupid high kill count and was extremely good at murdering all his foes even while sedated half the time.
He can also fight dudes who can analyze and predict what enemies would do based on muscle movements and Raiden himself can't be read.
Like the dude can fend off a group of elite dudes while missing his arms, while weakened, and being ganged by like a dozen ******* and can do so for a solid five minutes, like the dude can sword fight without any limbs.
He also has undergone virtual training for effectively every combat scenario.
He also picks up a martial arts that hard counters all other forms of fighting prowess."

Here is the outdated skill bullshit list used for Sam's skill level, and Raiden is just better than this since I omitted some shit and don't feel like finding the actual full skill list right now(it was made by @Chariot190)

But yeah, Raiden just gets haxed, any Kirito who tries to use Melee basically dies within however long it takes to enter melee, especially since MGR:R Raiden is walking into any given match with a 10x speed advantage due to Blade Mode+Ripper Mode

 

[Chariot190]

Raiden can beat a psychic who is not only equal in stats, but, passively reads his mind so he'd know everything he'd do and also has precognition which he's always using (retrocognition too but ya know), whom can also teleport, become intangible, and has invisibility, all of which is spammed or always in use to the point it's passive.
That was training

 

[Chariot190]

Anyway Raiden does this

because 10000x quicker

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Raiden fodderizes in skill FRA.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Skull doesn’t really matter when Kirito just uses his mind based freeze ability, or his mind based time manip, or his mind based law manip or his- you get the point right?

All of Kirito’s starter hacks either instantly immobilize or will obliterate you. I get that he’s more skilled, but it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use a massive AOE freeze or an ability where he simply can imagine his hand on your body and then just kills you.

And keep in mind he still has Incarnation which does all the crazy passive probability manip, stat amping, etc.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Turn off the console FRA

 

[CurrySenpai]

I have now just noticed OP didn’t equalize speed…

Thisnis a stomp either way then, crazy.

 

[thetechmaster36]

speed unequal KEK

 

[CurrySenpai]

speed unequal KEK

Robo if making really unfair stomp threads was a job:

 

[Shadyboi0]

Speed Unequal. What a great thing you are

 

[Chariot190]

Skull doesn’t really matter when Kirito just uses his mind based freeze ability, or his mind based time manip, or his mind based law manip or his- you get the point right?

Remember, Raiden has a 10x mind-based speed amp, in the end it's "whoever thinks first".
Though given Raiden's AI, processors, and enhanced mental faculties, I would not be surprised if he recognized the situation quicker and amped first, even if only by a nanosecond.

All of Kirito’s starter hacks either instantly immobilize or will obliterate you. I get that he’s more skilled, but it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use a massive AOE freeze or an ability where he simply can imagine his hand on your body and then just kills you.

Also doesn't take skill to blitz.
How good is the freezing? Would that stop Raiden who can withstand cold so potent that it flash freezes flesh and can even instantly freeze bullets on contact (Sneaking suit upscale), rendering their KE immobile? Note, im not talking AOE, he's Class G so he can def break out if he's simply encased in it, im talking actual potency.
And the latter won't kill Raiden, at all, cyborgs can survive being shredded into lil ribbons for a time, and even having one's head cut in half, was survivable.

if kirito leads with the latter, he dies, as that'd do nothing and by the time he realizes that Raiden would have already amped and bisected him.
Having options isnt inherently a good thing, the more options he has that he leads with, well if he leads with one that wont actually kill...

And keep in mind he still has Incarnation which does all the crazy passive probability manip, stat amping, etc.

Stat amps dont matter, 99% of Raiden's stuff has quantum duraneg.
He's also no stranger to dudes with wild luck (that was simulated but then not actually, so, ya know).

I have now just noticed OP didn’t equalize speed…

Thisnis a stomp either way then, crazy.

You were literally told he had an advantage,

Also the law manip is limited and Raiden has a massive speed advantage"

Even without it, he has a blitz lv amp that's thought-based. Kirito def has some instant winconditions, problem is, so does Raiden.

Also speed equal is the coward's way

 

[CurrySenpai]

Speed equal is necessary for stuff like this Kirito cannot do stuff in the time it takes for Raiden to move at relativistic speed.

 

[Chariot190]

Speed equal is necessary for stuff like this Kirito cannot do stuff in the time it takes for Raiden to move at relativistic speed.

Would it even matter? The moment the match starts he leads with a thought-based speed amp that enables him to blitz anyway.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Would it even matter? The moment the match starts he leads with a thought-based speed amp that enables him to blitz anyway.

Well if no matter what happens Raiden blitz then there’s not much we can do here huh.

 

[Shadyboi0]

It is accurate this time.

 

[Robo432343]

oh
speed is equalized

Would it even matter? The moment the match starts he leads with a thought-based speed amp that enables him to blitz anyway.

maybe incarnation can protect kirito

 

[DaReaperMan]

Maybe incarnation can protect kirito

Incarnation doesn't help when Raiden outskills him hard enough to immediately give him a prostate exam courtesy of his sword

 

[CurrySenpai]

Incarnation doesn't help when Raiden outskills him hard enough to immediately give him a prostate exam courtesy of his sword

To be fair Kirito can set up Forcefields around himself and even extend them away from his physical position, so even if he gets outsped at first (speed is now equal thank good) he still has a couple of walls that Raiden would have to go through, allowing Kirito to use his hax, which most are one hit kills or fight enders,

 

[Chariot190]

oh
speed is equalized

Coward tbh

maybe incarnation can protect kirito

Coming from the dude who literally argued Raiden blitzes so it's fair, you really cant make up your mind can you? Stop changing shit mid-match.

 

[Robo432343]

Coward tbh

Coming from the dude who literally argued Raiden blitzes so it's fair, you really cant make up your mind can you? Stop changing shit mid-match.

u guys were the ones saying if speed is unequalized then Raiden just stomps

 

[Chariot190]

To be fair Kirito can set up Forcefields around himself and even extend them away from his physical position, so even if he gets outsped at first (speed is now equal thank good) he still has a couple of walls that Raiden would have to go through, allowing Kirito to use his hax, which most are one hit kills or fight enders,

Every attack Raiden has, has quantum duraneg.
And no, you already explained why that wouldnt work, "he can set up", how? He'd be blitzed, why is he setting up forcefields as a lead anyway? He doesnt know about HF weapons? And if he does that he'd die anyway because they'd be cut through instantly as Raiden will be getting numerous actions in before he can react due to RM mode.

You just established a scenario, where Kirito leads with something useless and dies dog...

 

[Chariot190]

u guys were the ones saying if speed is unequalized then Raiden just stomps

i didnt say anything, i just said he wins

 

[DaReaperMan]

To be fair Kirito can set up Forcefields around himself and even extend them away from his physical position, so even if he gets outsped at first (speed is no equal thank good) he still has a couple of walls that Raiden would have to go through, allowing Kirito to use his hax, which most are one hit kills or fight enders,

Jack has a + so he will rip and tear through them in like 3 hits

 

[Chariot190]

he's gonna rip through them in one, why would the forcefields not have atoms, electrons and so on

 

[CurrySenpai]

he's gonna rip through them in one, why would the forcefields not have atoms, electrons and so on

Because they are forcefields made from his mind. Like this isn't even a joke they are mind forcefields created with Incarnation. Same with his slashes, telekensis, etc.

But once again, this still poses the issue of Kirito having Time Manip (It's listed as Age Manip I just haven't applied a CRT yet) with a mere wave of his hand, he can direct the memories of his sword to Raiden and Transmutate him into a tree, a very big AOE freeze that will at least keep him preoccupied long enough to do other stuff, and pretty decent regeneration.

Incarnate Blade lets him generate slashes on people by simply imagining it, same with Incarnate Arms which lets him grab objects by imagining his hand in that spot, he can generate blades inside people.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Good thing Raiden is like... 90% robot. And has absurd type 2 Immortality

 

[CurrySenpai]

Good thing Raiden is like... 90% robot. And has absurd type 2 Immortality

Kirito has Type 2 and 3 Immo, and yeah him being a robot, but I don't think that him being a robot would necessarily bar him from resisting say transmutation because it's explicitly putting the memories of the sword into someone, which is a bit different. There's also examples of him turning a candle into a sword as well.

I am surprised he doesn't have Type 8 though, since by all means he can just return to underworld after being logged out.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Kirito has Type 2 and 3 Immo, and yeah him being a robot, but I don't think that him being a robot would necessarily bar him from resisting say transmutation because it's explicitly putting the memories of the sword into someone, which is a bit different. There's also examples of him turning a candle into a sword as well.

I am surprised he doesn't have Type 8 though, since by all means he can just return to underworld after being logged out.

Kirito can't survive when turned into sushi or paste

Admittedly, the latter is only for a few minutes!

 

[Chariot190]

Because they are forcefields made from his mind. Like this isn't even a joke they are mind forcefields created with Incarnation. Same with his slashes, telekensis, etc.

So? Prove they resist quantum duraneg. They're evidently still corporal.

But once again, this still poses the issue of Kirito having Time Manip (It's listed as Age Manip I just haven't applied a CRT yet) with a mere wave of his hand,

And he loses if he does that. Raiden's speed amp is thought-based (it's actually focused based, which, is even quicker), he's amping right away, in the time it takes him to wave his hand, he won't have a hand, or a head.

he can direct the memories of his sword to Raiden and Transmutate him into a tree,

And that takes how long? And why would he? You've listed off 3/4 options nows that'd get him killed, why assume this one?
And would that even work? Raiden's body is components, even if his shell gets transmuted, as long as he can trade, such as amp into Dystopia, he'd win as his brain would still be fine, having a destroyed or transmutated body isnt the end for him, bro has extra body's at home.

a very big AOE freeze that will at least keep him preoccupied long enough to do other stuff,

No? He's Class G, while dying, without arms, and in a body magnitudes weaker than this one. The ice would need to be, **** idk, dozens of km thick for him to struggle to escape? ice's yield strength is actually ass. less than 1Mpa.

And he still has that thought based speed amp, you really think it'd take him long to break out?
Why would kirito even follow up on that? Why assume raiden is actually fine and the ice doesnt hurt him?

Beyond that, this isnt even instant hax, from what i understand, this takes a gesture, that's slower than Raiden amping and blitzing. He leads with that, he dies.

and pretty decent regeneration.

Raiden literally shreds people into thousands of chunks for points.

Incarnate Blade lets him generate slashes on people by simply imagining it,

So he slashes Raiden, fails to kill him, and then he dies because bro amped and bisects him?

same with Incarnate Arms which lets him grab objects by imagining his hand in that spot,

Which we established wouldn't kill a MGS cyborg.

he can generate blades inside people.

As above.

Man, ya realize Kirito only gets ONE lead in at best. Youre listing off all these options that wont actually kill Raiden, or arent even as fast on the draw as RM.

Gesture leads? He loses. Thought-based speed amp is quicker.
His thought-based leads like slashes? Wont kill, Raiden amps, as above.
And even with his thought-based win hax, that's still only equal to raiden's amp, except maybe not even, as said, Raiden has enhanced mental faculties and processors, even speed equal, he's likely to comprehend the situation and act first anyway.

Kirito MUST lead, without even a nanosecond delay, a lead that will instantly kill Raiden. Or he just loses the trade.

Kirito has Type 2 and 3 Immo, and yeah him being a robot, but I don't think that him being a robot would necessarily bar him from resisting say transmutation because it's explicitly putting the memories of the sword into someone, which is a bit different. There's also examples of him turning a candle into a sword as well.

Raiden losing his body isnt an instant lose, as long as he can amp and yeet Dystopia, a HF kunai, or even his blade beforehand, he wins.

And Kirito's pale, even the fodder cyborgs can have their heads cut in half, and actually survive. Everyone Raiden has fought has had some dumbass lv of regen and immortality, he's very thorough to say the least.

I am surprised he doesn't have Type 8 though, since by all means he can just return to underworld after being logged out.

Yeah uh, dont think that's how verse equalization works man.


As said, having a bunch of leads isnt a good thing when 90% get you killed. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter WHAT Raiden leads with, all lead to the same outcome, they all do the same shit.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Kirito CAN win, he's just highly unlikely to.

Should note Raiden doesn't have type 6 Immortality on his page off the back of his page being outdated

 

[Chariot190]

that's weird given this is like his 4th body.

 

[CurrySenpai]

oh, he STILL has a speed amp I didn’t see that part and was getting really confused.

Well if Kirito just gets blitzed no matter what that’s not really a fun match where he can do anything. I don’t see how this ISNT a stomp.