Kirito (Post-Aincrad) Speed Downgrade CRT (v26 URV Edition)

[Kaantantr]

Hey everyone, how are you all doing? If you have been following the news for the latest SAO information recently, SAO v26 Unital Ring V is coming out in the next couple of days. And naturally, we received the official 60-page book preview about 2 days ago. Those of you who have been part of the corrections on Kirito and SAO in the past couple of months, will remember that one of the many things that was touched upon was Kirito's speed. It was a peculiar case, as we did not really have proper distance references, but instead of removing the feet altogether, we figured it was a better choice to provide a rough estimate based on the quite vague distance description of "The specific distance should be revealed in SAO volume 26, but it is much, much closer than Earth and Mars." by the author Reki Kawahara. Well, the time has come and the exact distance has been revealed within the first 60 pages of v26!

Here's a dialogue between Kirito and Eolyne, the commander of the Integrity Pilots:

「あの......エオラインさん」
「なんだい?」
「いまさらなこと訊くけど、カルディナとアドミナって何キロ......何キロルくらい離れてるの?」
「だいたい五十万キロルだね」
「五十万......」
現実世界の月よりは遠いが、最接近時の火星と比べても百倍以上近い。
「だ、だったらアドミナはカルディナからめっちゃ見えるはずだろ」
「はぁ?見えるに決まってるじゃないか」

And here's the translation by Hisui from SAO Wikia:

"Uhm... Eolyne-san"
"What is it?"
"Pardon me for asking more, but how many kilo… kilors (1:1 measurement to kilometers in real world) apart are between Cardina and Admina?"
"It's about 500,000 kilors."
"500,000..."
It is farther than the moon in the real world, but it’s over 100 times closer than Mars at its closest approach.
"So, Admina should be really visible from Cardina."
"Huh? Of course it’s visible."

Now, it is also explained how Admina and Cardina orbit Solus (the Sun in Underworld) among other details, but since that's a bit of a tangent, I'll keep it very brief in my own words. There are also great excerpts as to how Gravity Functions (you literally cannot fly with your own abilities above a certain altitude, same as the pre-New Aincrad period of ALfheim Online, there is simply an altitude limit), but that is a good topic for another day.

The second planet in Underworld, Admina, is actually what was previously known as Lunaria (the Moon). Once Human Empire reached it and started inhabiting it, they renamed it into Admina. However, while it was described as "the Moon (Lunaria)" before, it functions differently than our real moon. It does not rotate around Cardina, but is actually in a synced orbit around Solus instead, so unlike our Moon that changes its placement in the sky every day, Admina's position in the sky is simply fixed to the time. While it moves on the sky due to Cardina rotating around its own axis, it will still appear at the same place at a given time (e.g. 7pm, it will be visible at a specific position every day, 8pm it will be visible in a slightly shifted but the same as everyday 8pm etc). So basically, two planets are always at a distance of ~500.000 kilometers apart, barely further away from each other than Earth and Moon and an incredibly far cry away from Earth to Mars.

And that was the problem. Our calculations were taking Mars distance as a reference, which (as I had urged back then too) turned out to be absolutely absurd measurements, about 790 times the actual distance between Cardina and Admina.

As such, I have created a new calculation based on the new official numbers we have, straight from Volume 26, Unital Ring V. The calculation can be found here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...d_of_Alicization_Kirito's_Speed_(v26_Edition)

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To Do Recommendation:​

Putting down Kirito's speed feat down to High Hypersonic+, however as this is just a hypothetical upper ceiling, a note has to be added that it is likely much slower in reality.

Kindly requesting a ping for DMUA and others under the Knowledgeable Members list for Sword Art Online.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well with the real distance now, i think it is reasonable to revise Kirito speed. But before anything else, did you post your blog link to calculation request thread?, the calc blog should be review and accepted by Calc group staff before we can make any calc revision.

 

[Kaantantr]

I have not. As far as I'm aware, DMUA is part of the calculation group and since he's familiar with SAO, it was him who did the initial review on the SAO CRTs anyways. So that should just occur naturally once he arrives.

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually you still need to post the calc blog on that thread, there are multiple staff to review, what they are review is the calculation method you used, not the verse itself so they are familiar with the verse or not is irrelevant, when they accept or have any problem with the blog they will comment under the blog for you to know. You can make a revision thread after they accept the blog, because revision thread is to discuss the matter of the verse, finalize and update profile with new informations. Anyway i will contact DMUA for you, but you still need to post that blog to thread i comment above so staff can review it; i know you ca reasonable and productive person, but there are still rule to follow

 

[Kaantantr]

The calculation is a copy paste of the previously approved one though. I just inserted the exact numbers this time, rather than the assumptions. And I do not remember the last one having to go through the request blog. Feel free to post it there though, I have already contacted DMUA when I posted this, so no need for you to call him.

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

I just inserted the exact numbers this time, rather than the assumptions.

If that's the case, you should still at least notify that you edited it on the Evaluation Thread, if you want the evaluation to come quicker, rather than waiting for a response.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Speed Downgrade

Upgrades Subsonic to High Hypersonic+

???

 

[DMUA]

I mean like, it could apply at travel speed with his Mechdragon but yeah as of now they're subsonic so like

 

[Kaantantr]

Huh, the previous calculation for travel speed was based on a distance almost 1000 times larger than reality. I do not remember completely removing that feat, as we had established it as a placeholder for when the real distance came out. What happened there?

Wasn't the Subsonic just reaction speed for the projectile deflection thingie?

 

[RitsuØ1]

Huh, the previous calculation for travel speed was based on a distance almost 1000 times larger than reality. I do not remember completely removing that feat, as we had established it as a placeholder for when the real distance came out. What happened there?

Wasn't the Subsonic just reaction speed for the projectile deflection thingie?

No. Actually, IIRC, the reason why Sub-Relativistic was yeeted was due to the Abyssal Horror absorbing spatial resources to prevent the mechadragons to reach their maximum potential.

 

[Kaantantr]

No. Actually, IIRC, the reason why Sub-Relativistic was yeeted was due to the Abyssal Horror absorbing spatial resources to prevent the mechadragons to reach their maximum potential.

I do not think that is the case at all, because that was already covered in the calculation to provide a clear case of what's faster than what in normal circumstances. Kirito was simply slower than all of them.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I mean... If we want a reaction speed, can't we calculate the bullet-dodging feat Kirito performed in his coma-state? (Sorry if this is derailing)




Also, shouldn't we upgrade his Range to Interplanetary due to being able to travel between planets?

I also have a question if you don't mind. I realized that you used only the 6 hours feat for the calculation. For traveling between Cardina and Admina, can't we use 6 Hours for Low-Balled, 4.5 Hours for Mid-Balled, & 3 Hours for High-Balled?

Edit: Actually, never mind about using the hours since it all results in High Hypseronic+.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I do not think that is the case at all, because that was already covered in the calculation to provide a clear case of what's faster than what in normal circumstances. Kirito was simply slower than all of them.

I dunno then...

 

[Kaantantr]

I mean... If we want a reaction speed, can't we calculate the bullet-dodging feat Kirito performed in his coma-state? (Sorry if this is derailing)

That's more of a throwing dagger, than a bullet.

Also, shouldn't we upgrade his Range to Interplanetary due to being able to travel between planets?

As stated above, the distance between two "planets" is barely any more than the distance between Earth and Moon, so much so that Admina was known as Lunaria (the Moon in Underworld). I think Interplanetary is significantly overdoing it, if the closest planet by our definition is almost 1000 times further away than Admina and Cardina is.

I also have a question if you don't mind. I realized that you used only the 6 hours feat for the calculation. For traveling between Cardina and Admina, can't we use 6 Hours for Low-Balled, 4.5 Hours for Mid-Balled, & 3 Hours for High-Balled?

There is absolutely no reason for low and high balls. We know Kirito is the slowest in the chain, therefore there is no reason to even entertain the possibilities that is faster than the slowest available reference point, since we know Kirito simply is not faster.

Although I'm still waiting to understand what and how the previous travel speed calculation completely disappeared from the character key

 

[RitsuØ1]

That's more of a throwing dagger, than a bullet.

Yea. I meant dagger. I actually said bullet by accident.

As stated above, the distance between two "planets" is barely any more than the distance between Earth and Moon, so much so that Admina was known as Lunaria (the Moon in Underworld). I think Interplanetary is significantly overdoing it, if the closest planet by our definition is almost 1000 times further away than Admina and Cardina is.

I mean... Even if the distance between the two "planets" is any more than the distance between Earth and Moon, they still went through interstellar travel which means interplanetary travel in this case which should give them that range.

There is absolutely no reason for low and high balls. We know Kirito is the slowest in the chain, therefore there is no reason to even entertain the possibilities that is faster than the slowest available reference point, since we know Kirito simply is not faster.

Yea. I edited that part since it was kinda meaningless.

Although I'm still waiting to understand what and how the previous travel speed calculation completely disappeared from the character key

I think it's best to ask either DMUA and/or Agnaa...

 

[DMUA]

I do not think that is the case at all, because that was already covered in the calculation to provide a clear case of what's faster than what in normal circumstances. Kirito was simply slower than all of them.

To directly quote Agnaa, being slower than something isn't a speed feat.

 

[Kaantantr]

Welp, that works in my favor, no need to give a classification to Kirito most people will likely misinterpret

I just wish I realized it before writing all this in the morning... Lock time I guess.

 

[RitsuØ1]

So... A person messaged me on Discord saying that the Abyssal Horror should be faster than the mechadragons since it can absorb spatial resources and escaped to the ends/edges of the universe. And that Kirito scales to it since he fought on par with the Abyssal Horror.

 

[Kaantantr]

So, let me get this straight, if I drain the tank of a Porsche, am I capable of going faster in normal cases than how fast the Porsche can drive in normal cases?

And then again, if Kirito is faster than Abyssal Horror, then why didn't he chase it "to the edges of the universe", which is actually not the edge of the universe, there is no universe, it just runs off to somewhere further away than they can reliably track at the Space Force, etc, etc.

I suggest ignoring that person.

 

[Smashtwig]

Agree with OP

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

This is great info (I'd like to know how you got the preview xD)

Anyways, would this correlate to his combat speed? 'Cause this mostly looks like it would be flight speed.

Since the distance is only 500,000km, the range would only be planetary:

Planetary: 20,037 - 1,391,400 km Half the circumference of Earth starts at 20,037 km. The distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384,400 km.

Also, wouldn't it be safer to just use the speed feat he did in War of Underworld when he was pursuing Gabriel and Alice to the World's End Altar? The distance he covered was stated in Moon Cradle by Asuna so we could use that to get a more accurate speed for him instead of trying to calculate a ceiling or an 'at most' rating that he is apparently still far from reaching in Unital Ring.

 

[Kaantantr]

Agree with OP

Sadly, the entire post was for naught as DMUA explained above.

This is great info (I'd like to know how you got the preview xD)

Japanese books always come with a book preview of ~60 pages (SAO books, thats ~50 pages of actual content due to colored illustrations at the beginning) about 10 days before their official release.

Anyways, would this correlate to his combat speed? 'Cause this mostly looks like it would be flight speed.

It has nothing to with Combat Speed, it's just travel speed, yes. But as DMUA explained above, we don't exactly have a solid reference point, as Kirito is simply "slower than" all the things we have some numbers on.

Since the distance is only 500,000km, the range would only be planetary:

Planetary: 20,037 - 1,391,400 km Half the circumference of Earth starts at 20,037 km. The distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384,400 km.

Also, wouldn't it be safer to just use the speed feat he did in War of Underworld when he was pursuing Gabriel and Alice to the World's End Altar? The distance he covered was stated in Moon Cradle by Asuna so we could use that to get a more accurate speed for him instead of trying to calculate a ceiling or an 'at most' rating that he is apparently still far from reaching in Unital Ring.

If you can bring up the numbers, it works, though it would be a pretty slow speed. It was a very small portion of Underworld that he covered over the course of a dozen or so minutes if not more. And the moment that goes into calculation, there'll be quite the fun uproar about how that is "not even close to Star Kings power" and baseless claims like that I will need to spend a lot of time arguing against, despite the fact that the flight is literally the same and has nothing to do with power, combined with the fact that nobody really knows anything about Star King in the first place.

And also, Kirito cannot receive "planetary" mainly because he cannot even fly above a certain level in Underworld due to the altitude limiter. He cannot even scale the "impassable" wall circling the entire Underworld with his flight.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

If you can bring up the numbers, it works, though it would be a pretty slow speed. It was a very small portion of Underworld that he covered over the course of a dozen or so minutes if not more. And the moment that goes into calculation, there'll be quite the fun uproar about how that is "not even close to Star Kings power" and baseless claims like that I will need to spend a lot of time arguing against, despite the fact that the flight is literally the same and has nothing to do with power, combined with the fact that nobody really knows anything about Star King in the first place.

I'll bring the numbers tomorrow since it's nearly midnight where I'm at. As for the Star King key and argument stuff, we could just put an 'at least' rating meaning he could be potentially faster than the speed given to him.

And also, Kirito cannot receive "planetary" mainly because he cannot even fly above a certain level in Underworld due to the altitude limiter. He cannot even scale the "impassable" wall circling the entire Underworld with his flight.

Yeah I know, I was just correcting @Problemexe on the distance and stuff. Kirito would obviously not get that range.

 

[Smashtwig]

Sadly, the entire post was for naught as DMUA explained above.

Lol dw about it. I just go with the “I see Downgrade and Kirito in the same sentence and instantly agree” and see just how far I can go with it lol

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Here's the feat:

When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound.

In the feat, Kirito is supposedly going at his full speed at the time so we shouldn't assume he can travel faster than this during the arc. Of course, this would only be his flight speed and not his combat speed.

Calculation:

We'll just use 600 miles as a low ball since it says 'more than' but we don't know by how much.

S = D / T

S = 600 / 5

S = 120 miles per minute

Converting 120 miles per minute to m/s would make it 3,218.688 m/s so...

Speed: 3,218.688 m/s or 7,200 mph or Mach 9.4

Conclusion: Hypersonic

I may be wrong so please correct me if you see a problem.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Here's the feat:

When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound.

In the feat, Kirito is supposedly going at his full speed at the time so we shouldn't assume he can travel faster than this during the arc. Of course, this would only be his flight speed and not his combat speed.

Calculation:

We'll just use 600 miles as a low ball since it says 'more than' but we don't know by how much.

S = D / T

S = 600 / 5

S = 120 miles per minute

Converting 120 miles per minute to m/s would make it 3,218.688 m/s so...

Speed: 3,218.688 m/s or 7,200 mph or Mach 9.4

Conclusion: Hypersonic

I may be wrong so please correct me if you see a problem.

The math is right. Yeah. I suppose this can be used for his War of Underworld and Star King/End of Alicization keys.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Bump

 

[CurrySenpai]

I’m a bit confused is this a downgrade or an upgrade?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I’m a bit confused is this a downgrade or an upgrade?

Yes

 

[CurrySenpai]

Bump

 

[Nierre]

What's left to do here?

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

For the record, the first post of this thread seems to make sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

@CrimsonStarFallen @DemonGodMitchAubin @Mr._Bambu @SomebodyData @Ionliosite @Agnaa

What do you think about this?

 

[Agnaa]

Seems to make sense to me.

 

[Kaantantr]

This is where it ended.

To directly quote Agnaa, being slower than something isn't a speed feat.

All in all, we don't have a "Kirito is faster than" ground to establish an actual speed for Kirito, since everything else just leads to a "slower than".

 

[CurrySenpai]

I agree with Cosmic_King's calculation. Shouldn't that be usable?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Here's the feat:

When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound.

In the feat, Kirito is supposedly going at his full speed at the time so we shouldn't assume he can travel faster than this during the arc. Of course, this would only be his flight speed and not his combat speed.

Calculation:

We'll just use 600 miles as a low ball since it says 'more than' but we don't know by how much.

S = D / T

S = 600 / 5

S = 120 miles per minute

Converting 120 miles per minute to m/s would make it 3,218.688 m/s so...

Speed: 3,218.688 m/s or 7,200 mph or Mach 9.4

Conclusion: Hypersonic

I may be wrong so please correct me if you see a problem.

If I'm being asked here for this, yeah. This is fine. Should probably slap it in a blog if you want to use this to scale, so people have an easy-to-reference source for our rating. Other than that, I'm not really knowledgeable on the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

If I'm being asked here for this, yeah. This is fine. Should probably slap it in a blog if you want to use this to scale, so people have an easy-to-reference source for our rating. Other than that, I'm not really knowledgeable on the verse.

@Cosmic_King_of_SAO

As Bambu said, you need to place the calculation in a blog in order to use it.

 

[Antvasima]

This is where it ended.

All in all, we don't have a "Kirito is faster than" ground to establish an actual speed for Kirito, since everything else just leads to a "slower than".

What about Cosmic King's calculation?

 

[Kaantantr]

What about Cosmic King's calculation?

Looks good, I can confirm the exact excerpt from Volume 20, Moon Cradle.

Unless we are close to a category (upper or lower) limit, citing the English translations usage of miles should be fine. If we are close to a category limit, I'll go ahead and pull the original metric numbers from the Japanese raw, as Yen Press' translation uses very rounded conversions for imperial units for the American audience.