Kirby's Low 1-C Discussion of sorts

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

hold up, does the creator of the blog even know its being used rn?

Yes. He literally commented that he wasn't finished with it

 

[The_Wright_Way]

hold up, does the creator of the blog even know its being used rn?

I quoted his reply to this thread above, so yes.

 

[sanicspood]

oh

 

[ElixirBlue]

Regardless, it's pretty rude taking someone else's work and posting it without permission, especially if they aren't done with it

Yeah...

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I'm locking this. Pepto can contact me on my wall when his blog is ready so we can have an actual discussion.

@DaReaperMan This is your first official warning. Nip this habit in the bud before it lands you on the RVR board.

 

[Eficiente]

Most of the basic information on this confusing place can be summed up in this video

Out of any video he has I agree with everything or almost all things in it but that one I remember was a mess in terms of the technical stuff we use.

...support this, but isn’t Another Dimension also stated to transcend time and space? This seems to indicate that it’s more complex than a mere small 4D multiverse.

Well, no. It was never called a multiverse and those fancy statements all mash together to mean that it's a multiverse, and that it's use of time isn't the same as in Kirby's universe.

The Extra-Dimensional Road and The Levels Taking Place In Another Dimension Aren't The Same Place​

Another Dimension is never stated to transcend time and space. The EXTRA dimension is the place with all of the statements we went over

Those are the same thing. I know Meteor's video, the Kirby wiki and pretty much all Kirby fandom thinks Magolor's universe is not inside Another Dimension but that's incorrect.

Aside from the proof already shown in the blog about the "Road"-like place being the same as the universes inside Another Dimension we got

• The area from Another Dimension we see when the Great Doomer is fought and the areas where every Doomer is fought are the same as the area around Halcandra, so logically Halcandra and its levels are in Another Dimension.
• Magolor says he's from Halcadra while also having said to be from Another Dimension.
• While drifting in Another Dimension due to what Star Dream did, Galacta Knight can stop and fight Kirby & co. in an area that looks like some very specific inside a level in Halcandra, so if we say that it is in Halcandra then Galacta Knight was drifting through Another Dimension while passing by 1 of its universes, which you say aren't the same.
• In Heroes in Another Dimension you go inside portals called "Dimension I", Dimension II", etc. and what's on the other side is that road-like part of Another Dimension, only to at the end be the part that looks like Kirby's universe. So both parts of the levels are the same dimenion/universe.

Especially when you even have statements like these and these co-existng with each other. The former's choce of words would be very confusing if Galacta-Knight drifted to Another Dimension, from Another Dimension, THROUGH Another Dimension.

Not really, the first one just says that he ended in this universe from other dimension that isn't this universe, as in he's in this universe and came from another. The second just gives a description to Another Dimension.

This road is what people actually refer to when saying Another Dimension is a dimension between dimensions

Is that taken out of the Meteor video? It was never said to be that and we should obviously not give it illogical descriptions like it unless the games themselves do so, and then we only quote what they say while moving it aside and knowing it doesn't mean anything.

The tunnel allows its users to travel to different points in space and time

This doesn't mean anything tier wise, its use of time it's not like ours and others use it for time travel, what about it?

At the other side of the tunnel, Magolor’s planet can be accessed. Contrary to popular belief, Halcandra isn’t INSIDE of the tunnel. There’s no reason to assume that’s what Magolor meant when he said it lies at the end of it.

This is wrong, it can be interpreted that way and it's confirmed as the space there is the same as the space in the tunnel and he said he was from there while also saying he's from Another Dimension.

Otherwise, after stealing the Master Crown, he would not have needed to open a portal to the road leading back to Pop Star, since he would have already been inside of it.

If he had the range to make a portal that would cover all that distance w/o needing to go across the space between Halcandra and Popstar and he wanted to do that then yes, he would have just used 1 portal, but he wasn't hurry and using portals over and over, he used 1 to go into space or at the next universe in Another Dimension, then he flew presumably many universes over on its own, and then he was fighting Kirby & co. in some random area while having made a portal in the backgroud leading to Popstar (so he either could have done it before or just so happened to at that moment be close enough to be able to do that).

A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."

The ladder option stated in this example is clearly what applies here

No, Another Dimension just has many universes.

Continuing with the rest later. Edit: Didn't notice the thread was closed due to writing, and I have no idea how the comment got added in a locked thread.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Reopened on Pepto's request.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Hoo boi... Ok, here we go.
First of all, let's make sure we're all on the same page. The drawing at the top is in fact how the cosmology is currently seen on the Wiki, right?

 

[Arceus0x]

so you are telling me all of them exist within the extra dimension or that the extra dimension is essentially like the space between universes?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

so you are telling me all of them exist within the extra dimension or that the extra dimension is essentially like the space between universes?

Both cases would be same.....kinda..
We already consider space between low2C structures to be 4D space.
Note on speed section.

 

[Arceus0x]

ok

 

[DaReaperMan]

ok

 

[Arceus0x]

there can only be one

 

[DaReaperMan]

so be it.

 

[Eficiente]

That's too cringy for me to keep up, using drawings to expliain strange Kirby stuff is perfectly fine tho, that has helped me before (if I at least used Paint).

 

[Arceus0x]

ay man let us have some fun, we don't get much of that irl as of late

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's too cringy for me to keep up, using drawings to expliain strange Kirby stuff is perfectly fine tho, that has helped me before (if I at least used Paint).

 

[Lou_change]

 

[Eficiente]

ay man let us have some fun, we don't get much of that irl as of late

On that sense, sure.

But as said before the only thing that says that AD is a "space between universes" is that Meteor video, that bit of lore doesn't come from somewhere, and it can't be the case due to Halcandra being at the end of the inder-dimensional tunnel. Why would it be at the end of it surrounds the universe? It has no reason to surround Kirby's universe as well and that would make little sense as it's "connected" to Planet Popstar. The universes the inder-dimensional tunnel has in it are likely to be in the way from Popstar to Magolor's universe, as seen the Another Dimension level from RtDL, where images of Halcandra and Popstar were shown in the background over and over again, which one could reasonably speculate represents universes being passed by.

Think of the inder-dimensional tunnel/Another Dimension as more of a line from Popstar that ends in Magolor's universe, not some omnipresent higher-dimensional space across all universes.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

On that sense, sure.

But as said before the only thing that says that AD is a "space between universes" is that Meteor video, that bit of lore doesn't come from somewhere, and it can't be the case due to Halcandra being at the end of the inder-dimensional tunnel. Why would it be at the end of it surrounds the universe? It has no reason to surround Kirby's universe as well and that would make little sense as it's "connected" to Planet Popstar. The universes the inder-dimensional tunnel has in it are likely to be in the way from Popstar to Magolor's universe, as seen the Another Dimension level from RtDL, where images of Halcandra and Popstar were shown in the background over and over again, which one could reasonably speculate represents universes being passed by.

Think of the inder-dimensional tunnel/Another Dimension as more of a line from Popstar that ends in Magolor's universe, not some omnipresent higher-dimensional space across all universes.

So my drawing is accurate, then? I'll respond to your other points tommorow.

 

[Eficiente]

Part of it.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Hoo boi... Ok, here we go.
First of all, let's make sure we're all on the same page. The drawing at the top is in fact how the cosmology is currently seen on the Wiki, right?

https://kirby.fandom.com/ja/wiki/星のカービィ_Wii/セリフ集#.E3.83.AC.E3.83.99.E3.83.AB2
Halcandra is in front of (“ぬけた さきにあるンダ”) a different space road (“異空間ロードを”) connected to “this planet” (“コノ星と つながっている”).
The top drawing can be discarded.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Part of it.

I assume the part you disagree with is the one that says the second option is the objective choice? I did get a little cocky when writing that, but I can back it up. In fact, Somelatinguy of all people seems to support my point here. These are strange days we're living in, for sure...

 

[Arceus0x]

the return of some latin guy

what will he do?

 

[Somelatinguy]

What I'll do is ask you if you agree.
To ensure everybody understood: In front of ≠ At the end of / Different ≠ Inter-dimensional / Road ≠ Tunnel

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I feel like you could have worded that better, but it seems we do agree that Halcrandra isn't inside of the road, but rather, at the other end of it, in the same way Pop Star is.

 

[Arceus0x]

makes sense

 

[Eficiente]

I feel like you could have worded that better, but it seems we do agree that Halcrandra isn't inside of the road, but rather, at the other end of it, in the same way Pop Star is.

People believe Halcandra is outside the road given the wording Magolor used, which can mean it being right at the end while still inside or right outside of it. I find very weird how the believing the latter leads to them being ok with how the space around Halcandra looks the same as the space the road has, and again how Magolor said be was from Another Dimension and Halcandra, and again how GK going through the road passes by a section that is identical to the last level found in Halcandra. So I find no doubts about it, it's simply factual that Halcandra is in the road/Another Dimension/a universe inside Another Dimension.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Yeah, the wording could in fact mean either option, but the context clearly indicates that it's outside of the road.

I really don't see any blatant resemblance between the space in Another Dimension around Halcandra and the space of the road, other than the fact that they're both space, and even if there was one, it still wouldn't automatically mean they're the same, since Halcandra has a regular flow of time (as shown by the flowers growing in it and Egg Engines deteriorating over time), whereas the road doesn't. Whether it's qualititively superior to the entirety of space and time in the series or not is something we'll tackle later, but right now we do in fact agree that time at the very least works differently in the extra-dimensional road, right? Knowing that this is the case, how does it make sense to say that Halcandra is inside of it when it clearly doesn't share the same characteristic?

Yes, Magolor is from Another Dimension. That just proves my point. If he was from extra-dimensional road, he would have said as much, just like how the Doomers are said to come from there. And if Halcandra was already inside the road leading to Pop Star, Magolor wouldn't have needed to create a portal leading to yet ANOTHER road just to head back to Pop Star from Halcandra. Alot of this is already said in my blog btw. Your theory revolving around Galacta-Knight is just that. You came to that conslusion because a Miivere post said that the places where his boss fights take place can give us some food for thought. It's contradicted by everything else we went over. In fact, the post said that right after saying that it's hard to place Galacta-Knight's fights on a timeline, so it's not like your theory is the definitive answer he intended, because it DOES place his boss fights in a concrete timeline. This entire point of yours is exactly what the Miiverse post claims it to be: Food for thought. For all we know, Galacta-Knight could have just drifted into Another Dimension in the middle of the road on his way to get released by Star Dream, or the entire sequence of events could have been in an entirely different sequence of events than you think. Either way, it makes no sense for Halcandra to be inside the road rather than in its own universe in Another Dimension. That would defeat the road's entire purpose.

 

[Somelatinguy]

People believe Halcandra is outside the road given the wording Magolor used, which can mean it being right at the end while still inside or right outside of it.

1) Again, the original statement says Halcandra is in front of the different road.

I find very weird how the believing the latter leads to them being ok with how the space around Halcandra looks the same as the space the road has,

2) The space around Halcandra and the one in that road looking the same means both universes have the same appearance.

and again how Magolor said be was from Another Dimension and Halcandra,

3) He says he's from another dimension (common noun, without upper case) in that translation.

and again how GK going through the road passes by a section that is identical to the last level found in Halcandra.

4) See point 2.

 

[ThatOneMofo]

Hmmm...

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I never thought I would agree with Somelatinguy on something Kirby related (albeit for different reasons).

Something that should be made clear to anyone who's new to this thread is that anyone who agrees that Halcandra isn't inside of the tunnel, but disagree with Low 1-C should voice thier complaints later. This is very complex, so let's take this one at a time. First and foremost, we need to prove that Halcandra in its own universe in Another Dimension rather than in the road separating universes, (which I believe we kind of did, but let's see).

 

[Eficiente]

but the context clearly indicates that it's outside of the road.

I really don't see any blatant resemblance between the space in Another Dimension around Halcandra and the space of the road

You could have seen that long comment I made before the thread got unlocked and replied to the points given there to save time.

since Halcandra has a regular flow of time (as shown by the flowers growing in it and Egg Engines deteriorating over time), whereas the road doesn't.

Sorry but this is outright stupid. You don't know how the road transcends time and you can't make up rules about it like that. On that logic the Doomers being able to be stopped in time proves they don't come from a place that transcends it, and saying that is more exact than what you say because they shouldn't be able to be stopped in time in what you aim the road to be while "this flowers are dead here while this flowers there aren't" can mean a number of logical things, like simply "the anvironment was better".

That unknown "transcendence over time" has been used to reforce pretty much saying "uh, it's hard to give a concrete place of where what happened is in the timeline", implying that it can be done, and right after it they pointed out to consider GK's last 3 places where GK appeared to give "some food for thought" about it, with his middle appearance being in the Halcandra-like level.

Whether it's qualititively superior to the entirety of space and time in the series or not is something we'll tackle later

If it's anything higher than "the place is a multiverse/has many universes in it" then it's wank.

but right now we do in fact agree that time at the very least works differently in the extra-dimensional road, right?

Yes.

Knowing that this is the case, how does it make sense to say that Halcandra is inside of it when it clearly doesn't share the same characteristic?

Based on what, the mechanized / volcanic place in ruins where dead people used to live lacks flowers while in space they grow fine?

Yes, Magolor is from Another Dimension. That just proves my point. If he was from extra-dimensional road, he would have said as much, just like how the Doomers are said to come from there.

Looking back at what he said in Dream Collection Magolor doesn't say he's from Another Dimension, but another world. It wouldn't have proved your point, that's like saying that a highway named Another Highway has a structure at the end of it and someone saying that they're from both the latter place and Another Highway proves they're not the same place as it didn't say it wasn't from the highway, that's dumb.

The Doomers were stated by Magolor to "usually live in another dimension", which I checked and the og text and was that they just "live in Another Dimension", w/o even the usually. Other 2 descriptions for them say that they "come to Planet Popstar from another dimension" and are "monsters nested in another dimension", but the og text on those just means another world, so the Doomers come from the road and the worlds/universes within it.

And if Halcandra was already inside the road leading to Pop Star, Magolor wouldn't have needed to create a portal leading to yet ANOTHER road just to head back to Pop Star from Halcandra.

Headcanon to say it was to "ANOTHER road", it was the same road, either in the space of the same universe or the same of the next universe between Halcandra an Popstar. You have no proof that Magolor w/ the crown can make up portals from any universe in the road to Popstar in 1 go, nor do we really know if he wanted to go in 1 go, as I explained before.

Again, the multiverse that is AD isn't a bunch of universes thrown on a bigger circle, but in a line, likely hence it's a road.

Your theory revolving around Galacta-Knight is just that. You came to that conslusion because a Miivere post said that the places where his boss fights take place can give us some food for thought. It's contradicted by everything else we went over.

It doesn't.

In fact, the post said that right after saying that it's hard to place Galacta-Knight's fights on a timeline, so it's not like your theory is the definitive answer he intended, because it DOES place his boss fights in a concrete timeline. This entire point of yours is exactly what the Miiverse post claims it to be: Food for thought.

That was said before it, it didn't comment on putting GK vs MK in PB on a timeline as it was hard and then pointed out his last appearances to invite others to think about it. There's not having the intended answer and then there's making 2 + 2; GK had 3 appearances, the first could have happened before or after the latter 2 so it doesn't matter, in the second he's on a Halcandra-like level while it's pretty much said that "wow, this guy from your galaxy is in this universe for some reason, nuts" and in PB he came from the road due to someone having made him be in the road, it kinda makes sense that the latter thing made the former happen and for that to be what they meant, this in turn makes perfect sense with how Another Dimension was used in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe as beings who weren't from Another Dimension were connected to it to be summoned into the Dream Kingdom by someone, which wouldn't we know it is the same that happened to GK, if we pieced things up.

For all we know, Galacta-Knight could have just drifted into Another Dimension in the middle of the road on his way to get released by Star Dream, or the entire sequence of events could have been in an entirely different sequence of events than you think.

The first thing you say is just a headcanon coming out of nowhere being added to my headcanon that has a reason to exist given clues given, I don't even expand much over the how it all happened, only picking based on what was given, next to that adding "but he could have flown away into.. " for no reason it's dumb. To the second thing you say, again, "there's not having the intended answer and then there's making 2 + 2".

Either way, it makes no sense for Halcandra to be inside the road rather than in its own universe in Another Dimension. That would defeat the road's entire purpose.

That would maybe defeat the wank, not the road's purpose. The road has universes, Halcandra exists in many of them (if not all), 1 of those universes has the Halcandra Magolor is from, what purpose is defeated?

1) Again, the original statement says Halcandra is in front of the different road.

That's no better than the English wording, it can still be at the edge while still inside. Also, I don't trust your ability to traslate this and would prefer an expert, as far as I can see he may just be saying that Halcandra is ahead in relation to it being in the road, which so happened to be connected to the planet they're in. That makes sense on other prior times he pointed out AD as he also said it was "in front" (of where they are).

2) The space around Halcandra and the one in that road looking the same means both universes have the same appearance.

The "road" isn't a universe, they're many and all have the same "appearance", to claim there exist yet another universe not part of the road that shares the same appearance is pretty absurd.

3) He says he's from another dimension (common noun, without upper case) in that translation.

I did recheck what he said in Dream Collection and that's true. You could have been more clear tho, he's said to be from "another dimension" 3 times.

4) See point 2.

So they also share planets/places and not just space, even more absurd.

 

[Somelatinguy]

The proving was certainly kind of done, and your "Magolor wouldn't have needed to create a portal leading to yet ANOTHER road" point was powerful.
However, I always thought AD is the dimension containing the Sphere Doomers' areas and the space road connecting Pop Star and Halcandra.
Also, I always found it incorrect to refer to that dimension with that proper name as the Level 8's real name is "The Last Battle In Another Dimension".
EDIT: Oh, I just saw Eficiente replied; I'll check that reply later.

 

[Eficiente]

However, I always thought AD is the dimension containing the Sphere Doomers' areas and the space road connecting Pop Star and Halcandra.
Also, I always found it incorrect to refer to that dimension with that proper name as the Level 8's real name is "The Last Battle In Another Dimension".

You thought AD was AD but when the name given to it on a level was AD you found it incorrect to refer to that place with the name of AD, wtf.

 

[Somelatinguy]

The name given to it, a common name that I wrote with upper case because it's part of a level's name.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

You could have seen that long comment I made before the thread got unlocked and replied to the points given there to save time

And you could have read the edits I've made to my blog after said comment. That would have saved even more time.

Sorry but this is outright stupid. You don't know how the road transcends time and you can't make up rules about it like that. On that logic the Doomers being able to be stopped in time proves they don't come from a place that transcends it, and saying that is more exact than what you say because they shouldn't be able to be stopped in time in what you aim the road to be while "this flowers are dead here while this flowers there aren't" can mean a number of logical things, like simply "the anvironment was better".

If the road doesn't transcend time in the way I describe it to, then HOW does it transcend time? You never explained that in any of your Kirby blogs, so it sure seems like you don't know any better than I do. You just say that time fuctions wierdly enough to allow for time travel. Define "wierdly". I explain in my blog how an outright qualitative transcendance is what makes the most sense given what we know, and it's clearly what the writers were going for based on thier choice of words. I already said we should save this for later, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but it's not like this was my only point anyway. Kirby being able to freeze Doomers in place is more of a feat for Kirby than it is an anti-feat for the Doomers. He could have just frozen them on a temporal dimension higher than 4D.

That unknown "transcendence over time" has been used to reforce pretty much saying "uh, it's hard to give a concrete place of where what happened is in the timeline", implying that it can be done, and right after it they pointed out to consider GK's last 3 places where GK appeared to give "some food for thought" about it, with his middle appearance being in the Halcandra-like level.

Of course it can be done. I'm not saying that it can't. After all, Galacta-Knight's fights still have a chronological order TO HIM, but to everyone else in the verse, they don't. That's the best conslusion that can be drawn from this statement. Galacta-Knight has his own timeline of events separate from everyone else. The post outright says that we can't expect everything to be connected since all of Galacta-Knight's appearences are in what-if scenarios (and in the Dream Kingdom), A.K.A parralel universes, so to speak, so this actually supports my point even more. And again, we don't know through which process Galacta-Knight ended up in the Halcandra-looking place. Even if it was because of Star Dream as the post might imply, that's no proof that it's located inside the road since we don't know the distance from which Galacta-Knight was pulled to begin with (To clarify, the fight still TECHNICALLY takes place inside the road in the sense that every universe is already in it, but it's not JUST inside the road). He could have been dragged through Another Dimension during the process of being dragged through the road, since said road isn't just between universes but also above them, as stated numerous times. No matter which interpretation we go with, none of them compare to the blatant fact that Magolor created a portal leading to a new road while already on Halcandra, which would not have been necessary if Halcandra was already inside the road leading back to Pop Star.

If it's anything higher than "the place is a multiverse/has many universes in it" then it's wank.

That just goes to show how close-minded you are. If you're not willing to accept any changes to the Kirby verse that contradicts your current point of view, regardless of the evidence presented, then you should just say it now so I can stop wasting my time and just move to a different site.

Yes.

Alright, good. Then I'll ask again just to be sure. If it's not transcendant over the concept of time, then how does it work differently, exactly?

Based on what, the mechanized / volcanic place in ruins where dead people used to live lacks flowers while in space they grow fine?

Wait, what? I don't think we're on the same page right now. You're saying the opposite of my point. Flowers do grow on the mechanized and volcanic places of Halcandra, with the former even having its machines deteriorating over time. Neither of those things happen in the extra-dimensional space of the road.

Looking back at what he said in Dream Collection Magolor doesn't say he's from Another Dimension, but another world. It wouldn't have proved your point, that's like saying that a highway named Another Highway has a structure at the end of it and someone saying that they're from both the latter place and Another Highway proves they're not the same place as it didn't say it wasn't from the highway, that's dumb.

It doesn't support your point either then. Either one could be true, but the fact that it's connected to Pop Star which is in its own universe, and the fact that Magolor somehow felt the need to create a portal to an insanely long road to just to go back to Pop Star when he should have normally already been in said road is even more dumb (especially considering the portal that initially sent the Lor from Pop Star to Halcandra opened really close to it). but can we stop childishly degrading the other's arguments? That's the dumbest thing of all. We're talking about a fictional puffball, here.

The Doomers were stated by Magolor to "usually live in another dimension", which I checked and the og text and was that they just "live in Another Dimension", w/o even the usually. Other 2 descriptions for them say that they "come to Planet Popstar from another dimension" and are "monsters nested in another dimension", but the og text on those just means another world, so the Doomers come from the road and the worlds/universes within it.

The lack of capitalization does make it insanely confusing. Do you have any scans for those translations?

Headcanon to say it was to "ANOTHER road", it was the same road, either in the space of the same universe or the same of the next universe between Halcandra an Popstar. You have no proof that Magolor w/ the crown can make up portals from any universe in the road to Popstar in 1 go, nor do we really know if he wanted to go in 1 go, as I explained before.

And why would he not want to make the trip in one go by crossing as little distance as possible? This is just common sense when you think about it. Magolor says that Halcandra is really far away, and that it lies at the end of an inter-dimensional tunnel connected to Kirby's planet. The Lor opens a portal, flies through space (which is later comfirmed to be extra-dimensional), and flies out the other end, arriving at Halcandra in practically no time just like Magolor said it would. From this alone, we can already infer that Halcandra is connected to the road in the same way that Pop Star is (again, in its own universe separate from it). "But how do we know that the Lor travelled inside the road when the game only shows it going from one portal to the other in an instant?", you might ask. That's because when Magolor opens that very same portal with the Master Crown later in the game from Halcandra, he needs to travel through said road in order to reach Pop Star. Why would the distance that needs to be travelled be any different between the arrival to Halcandra and the departure from it? If the portals are supposed to lead to thier destination without any distance needing to be crossed, why does Magolor make a big deal about his planet being really far away, and why would Magolor WILLINGLY slow himself down by crossing a completely unecessary distance between Pop Star and his planet? There's just so much that makes no sense here, and it can all be explained by the fact that Halcandra is in its own universe rather than inside of the tunnel.

Again, the multiverse that is AD isn't a bunch of universes thrown on a bigger circle, but in a line, likely hence it's a road.

A line that happens to be large enough to contain entire timelines inside of it... Why would its shape matter? It exists between and above the already established dimensions of the verse either way.

That was said before it, it didn't comment on putting GK vs MK in PB on a timeline as it was hard and then pointed out his last appearances. There's not having the intended answer and then there's making 2 + 2; GK had 3 appearances, the first could have happened before or after the latter 2 so it doesn't matter, in the second he's on a Halcandra-like level while it's pretty much said that "wow, this guy from your galaxy is in this universe for some reason, nuts" and in PB he came from the road due to someone having made him be in the road, it kinda makes sense that the latter thing made the former happen and for that to be what they meant, this in turn makes perfect sense with how Another Dimension was used in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe as beings who weren't from Another Dimension were connected to it to be summoned into the Dream Kingdom by someone, which wouldn't we know it is the same that happened to GK, if we pieced things up.

Were the characters summoned outside of Another Dimension in TKCD really stated to be connected to it? From what I remember of your cosmology page, they're just connected to an unamed reality related to the Black Mirror. Either way, they would indeed be connected to Another Dimension one way or another, since everything in the verse is cnnected to each other by the extra-dimensional road A.K.A the Extra Dimension.

The first thing you say is just a headcanon coming out of nowhere being added to my headcanon that has a reason to exist given clues given, I don't even expand much over the how it all happened, only picking based on what was given, next to that adding "but he could have flown away into.. " for no reason it's dumb. To the second thing you say, again, "there's not having the intended answer and then there's making 2 + 2".

You did the exact same thing for my claims that Hacandra isn't inside the road via the evidence in Return to Dreamland. You said, and I quote:

"it was the same road, either in the space of the same universe or the same of the next universe between Halcandra an Popstar."

The former option wouldn't sound like such a headcanon if it wasn't for the evidence I already presented above and the fact that the portal is clearly intended to lead directly to Pop Star. Meanwhile, the latter is a ludicrous head-canon. How would there be a "next universe" between Pop Star and Halcandra when there already is one? Are you saying that there are 3 universes somehow circling each other? That makes no sense. At least my "headcanon" is supported by the fact that the road is between and beyond time and space, meaning that Galacta-Knight could have still been dragged through it while also moving in Another Dimension.

That would maybe defeat the wank, not the road's purpose. The road has universes, Halcandra exists in many of them (if not all), 1 of those universes has the Halcandra Magolor is from, what purpose is defeated?

The purpose of a road is to connect two points together. In this case, it being called inter-dimensional means that it leads from one dimension to another, and its destination is Magolor's universe. Since you're admitting that universes are inside of the road, you're also admitting that the road is larger than said universes, which supports the idea that it's extra-dimensional in nature. I know we're supposed to keep this part for later. I'm just gonna note it here so I don't forget it.

That's no better than the English wording, it can still be at the edge while still inside.

He didn't say it was at the edge of it. He said it was in FRONT of it. I don't know where he got that translation from though. Scans would be preferable.

 

[Somelatinguy]

The original text is at the link in my first reply.
I'll check you guys' discussion later.

 

[Eficiente]

And you could have read the edits I've made to my blog after said comment. That would have saved even more time.

You need to follow a blog to know edits on it.

If the road doesn't transcend time in the way I describe it to, then HOW does it transcend time? You never explained that in any of your Kirby blogs, so it sure seems like you don't know any better than I do. You just say that time fuctions wierdly enough to allow for time travel. Define "wierdly". I explain in my blog how an outright qualitative transcendance is what makes the most sense given what we know, and it's clearly what the writers were going for based on thier choice of words. I already said we should save this for later, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but it's not like this was my only point anyway. Kirby being able to freeze Doomers in place is more of a feat for Kirby than it is an anti-feat for the Doomers. He could have just frozen them on a temporal dimension higher than 4D.

The logic in all this part is pretty bad. The way it transcends time is "a weird way that we don't know", knowing that should satisfy anyone. I don't need to make up rules about it and explain more things than it because it doesn't exist more things than it to be explained. I do, in fact, "know better than you", you claimed the place had xInfinity more complexity than a regular universe based on logic that doesn't make sense whereas I limit myself to what we know and is reasonable. To claim that because you made up rules and I portrayed something vague & unknown as something as vague & unknown means that "I don't know any better than you" is an illogical conclusion. Legit any other headcanon about how the transcendence works (if the time travel doesn't cut it) would make infinitely more sense than to claim it's infinitely more complex than how it really is, as other headcanons should be claiming infinitely less, so no, it's not "what makes the most sense given what we know", that cannot be the case. Nor do the the writers' choice of words make it more clear as the words (transcend/be beyond time and space) don't mean what you think they mean, which we already told you and have writen in the Tiering FQA. That bit of the Doomers was just to point out how bad your point was, to go far as to say that it's more likely that Kirby's doing that is seems like an excuse you're coming up, it's not makes the most sense.

Of course it can be done. I'm not saying that it can't. After all, Galacta-Knight's fights still have a chronological order TO HIM, but to everyone else in the verse, they don't. That's the best conslusion that can be drawn from this statement. Galacta-Knight has his own timeline of events separate from everyone else. The post outright says that we can't expect everything to be connected since all of Galacta-Knight's appearences are in what-if scenarios (and in the Dream Kingdom), A.K.A parralel universes, so to speak, so this actually supports my point even more.

To say that GK works by his own chronological order is redundant, he would still have it if some of his fights were canon to himself and others weren't. None of that supports your point even more at all, that doesn't make sense, in no part there something you say makes anything you claimed more valid or what I said less valid.

And again, we don't know through which process Galacta-Knight ended up in the Halcandra-looking place. Even if it was because of Star Dream as the post might imply, that's no proof that it's located inside the road since we don't know the distance from which Galacta-Knight was pulled to begin with

You're making up a new rule to dismiss it, all we know is:

• That GK was in the road

And here you claim that

• The distance from which he was pulled somehow matters -> so he wasn't in the road?

Which was the only thing we knew, no "distance" was ever pointed out, you're making up that part.

(To clarify, the fight still TECHNICALLY takes place inside the road in the sense that every universe is already in it, but it's not JUST inside the road).

It's just as wrong as it sounds.

He could have been dragged through Another Dimension during the process of being dragged through the road

Idk why by your logic they're still somehow not synonymous yet.

since said road isn't just between universes but also above them, as stated numerous times.

This has nothing to do with what you were saying before and so I have no idea why it works to make you believe what you were going for. The road still has no proof to be between universes and this goes against how in TKCD the only reason as to why Parallel beings connected to it was because someone made it so. The road being above universes just changes its location while all the rest of the things you were saying remain the same, with no reason as to why would GK get dragged into a Halcandra while in the road if they're not the same thing. Now, if you make up even more new rules about how that being above universes changes things up than yes, it does changes things, but you should not do that.

That just goes to show how close-minded you are. If you're not willing to accept any changes to the Kirby verse that contradicts your current point of view, regardless of the evidence presented, then you should just say it now so I can stop wasting my time and just move to a different site.

I said what I said there because no evidence was in favor of what was writen on what I quoted. If you want to really believe what you wrote there then I can more precisely get a read on you and say that it doesn't take a lot for you to believe over the top things like that.

Alright, good. Then I'll ask again just to be sure. If it's not transcendant over the concept of time, then how does it work differently, exactly?

The question is broken, it is a transcendence over time, which is a concept, you don't need to say that it's not for no reason. You wrongly believe that because it's that then that means tier 1 stuff when that's not what "transcendence" means, we already point this out in the Tiering FQA. Transcendence is just a word whose meaning doesn't = tier 1 stuff.

Wait, what? I don't think we're on the same page right now. You're saying the opposite of my point. Flowers do grow on the mechanized and volcanic places of Halcandra, with the former even having its machines deteriorating over time. Neither of those things happen in the extra-dimensional space of the road.

So the planet has floweys and outer space doesn't, and you make a deal out of it. That's an incredibly illogical think to come up with. What you do want to see deteriorate in space? We only see stars and stuff and move on quite too fast for anything to die at our sight. There're normal foes there with no reason to be immortal. Those last 2 sentences should not take place here.

It doesn't support your point either then.

Yes it "does"/would have, if you believe "A" and "a" to not be the same and someone from "A" says it's from there and also "a" then that objectively shows them being the same. You grabbed random stuff to claim you were correct for no reason.

but can we stop childishly degrading the other's arguments? That's the dumbest thing of all. We're talking about a fictional puffball, here.

"Degrading" the other's arguments makes a debate, it's helpful to point out how I believes a bad argument to be bad and a nonsensical one to be nonsensical. It's sets up standards. And given how most of yours are, you should very much take in what others have to say to them.

The lack of capitalization does make it insanely confusing. Do you have any scans for those translations?

Check the transcription the Kirby wiki has of RtDL and go to the JP version of it for the first, for the other check the pages of the Great and Holo Doomers and then the JP version.

No matter which interpretation we go with, none of them compare to the blatant fact that Magolor created a portal leading to a new road while already on Halcandra, which would not have been necessary if Halcandra was already inside the road leading back to Pop Star.

the fact that it's connected to Pop Star which is in its own universe, and the fact that Magolor somehow felt the need to create a portal to an insanely long road to just to go back to Pop Star when he should have normally already been in said road is even more dumb (especially considering the portal that initially sent the Lor from Pop Star to Halcandra opened really close to it).

And why would he not want to make the trip in one go by crossing as little distance as possible? This is just common sense when you think about it. Magolor says that Halcandra is really far away, and that it lies at the end of an inter-dimensional tunnel connected to Kirby's planet. The Lor opens a portal, flies through space (which is later comfirmed to be extra-dimensional), and flies out the other end, arriving at Halcandra in practically no time just like Magolor said it would. From this alone, we can already infer that Halcandra is connected to the road in the same way that Pop Star is (again, in its own universe separate from it). "But how do we know that the Lor travelled inside the road when the game only shows it going from one portal to the other in an instant?", you might ask. That's because when Magolor opens that very same portal with the Master Crown later in the game from Halcandra, he needs to travel through said road in order to reach Pop Star.

Because if he wanted to as you say, and if it was as you say, he would have opened a portal to the road, go a few centimeters into it, made another portal to Popstar while inside the road, and gone there to take it over. But he didn't, there was no "crossing as little distance as possible", after the portal to the road there was a huge distance to be traveled to then make the portal to Popstar, this doesn't at all prove that before this he was outside the road, if there anyway was a distance to be done after going into the first portal then the first portal could have better well been to go further into that distance in the road, which could have been done from just deeper into the road.

Beyond me how you can claim that the Lor went in no time at all after having just said that why would Magolor not want to be crossing as little distance as possible? If that didn't raise an eyebrow then how about Halcandra being "really far away" even tho the reasons for the Lor going there fast are implied to be speed-based?

We can't infer that Halcandra is connected to the road in the same way that Pop Star in its own universe separate from the road, that's a headcanon based on bad reasoning. You said a bunch of unconnected stuff and ended with "therefore this".

I already know the Lor travelled inside "the road" when the game only shows it going from one portal to the other in an instant, I have something like this writen in my blog about the JP guides and how we should really get our hands on them.

Why would the distance that needs to be travelled be any different between the arrival to Halcandra and the departure from it? If the portals are supposed to lead to thier destination without any distance needing to be crossed, why does Magolor make a big deal about his planet being really far away, and why would Magolor WILLINGLY slow himself down by crossing a completely unecessary distance between Pop Star and his planet? There's just so much that makes no sense here, and it can all be explained by the fact that Halcandra is in its own universe rather than inside of the tunnel.

Once again, you just said a bunch of unconnected stuff and ended still agreeing with what you said for no real reason. None of that has any proof of Halcandra being in another universe outside of the road. Cinematic timing just made us see the Lor go faster or made us perceive how Kirby & co. went after Magolor, the portals being portals doesn't say anything about their range (let alone if the weird use of time AD has does something the portals may also do something about it), Magolor's planet is really far away, and many reasons

• He didn't, it was just cinematic timing
• As before but adding in how he's a bit slower than his Lor
• He was mind controlling Doomers as he went to have with him and take over Kirby's universe
• CIS

There's no reason as to why Magolor, Kirby & co. weren't passing by other universes as they go in the road given the images of Halcandra and Popstar seen in the background.

A line that happens to be large enough to contain entire timelines inside of it... Why would its shape matter? It exists between and above the already established dimensions of the verse either way.

Because the Lor, Magolor, Kirby & co. had to go over the line and pass over universes to reach Magolor's Halcandra at the end. The road doesn't exist between all universes and it only has reasons to maybe be above Kirby's universe, not all others.

Were the characters summoned outside of Another Dimension in TKCD really stated to be connected to it? From what I remember of your cosmology page, they're just connected to an unamed reality related to the Black Mirror. Either way, they would indeed be connected to Another Dimension one way or another, since everything in the verse is cnnected to each other by the extra-dimensional road A.K.A the Extra Dimension.

3th time you say everything in the verse is is connected to the road for no reason. They just portal'd beings into it to somehow make it easiler to summon them somewhere else and/or from other point in time.

You did the exact same thing for my claims that Hacandra isn't inside the road via the evidence in Return to Dreamland. You said, and I quote: "it was the same road, either in the space of the same universe or the same of the next universe between Halcandra an Popstar."
The former option wouldn't sound like such a headcanon if it wasn't for the evidence I already presented above and the fact that the portal is clearly intended to lead directly to Pop Star. Meanwhile, the latter is a ludicrous head-canon. How would there be a "next universe" between Pop Star and Halcandra when there already is one? Are you saying that there are 3 universes somehow circling each other? That makes no sense. At least my "headcanon" is supported by the fact that the road is between and beyond time and space, meaning that Galacta-Knight could have still been dragged through it while also moving in Another Dimension.

Another Dimension has many universes in it and the one Magolor's Halcandra is in is at the end/at the other front/lies at the end, what's at the start and middle of this multiverse are other universes, supported by the repeated images of Popstar and Halcandra in the background as Kirby & co. fly there. Your headcanon doesn't make sense, it's the 4th time you claim AD is between for no reason being beyond space and time can be said of any dimension outside of Kirby's, in relation of the space and time of his universe.

The purpose of a road is to connect two points together. In this case, it being called inter-dimensional means that it leads from one dimension to another, and its destination is Magolor's universe. Since you're admitting that universes are inside of the road, you're also admitting that the road is larger than said universes, which supports the idea that it's extra-dimensional in nature.

• Road:
  • As a road one can "walk"/fly in it if one feels like it (which makes sense as it was a level Kirby flew)
  • And it does connect things as you can go from 1 dimension in it to another dimension in it, the latter bit the Lor can do while going in it as Magolor stated it in RtDL that it can travel to other dimensions aside from how it already showed to do that and it's seen flying in it in GK's [something] attack.
• "Inter" in inter-dimensional: Doesn't necessarily mean it's between all universes, dimensions and everything in the verse, but maybe how it itself has dimensions in it, or maybe how it's between a few universes without being between all, and by maybe I mean that it takes far less speculation to come up with those takes. Really we don't know why it's called inter-dimensional so we must not come up with anything for it and claim it as true.

Hence it's a road and inter-dimensional, the other claims based on that are headcanons with no reason to be. Yeah Kirby's tier 2 and stuff but we don't talk about it.

He didn't say it was at the edge of it. He said it was in FRONT of it. I don't know where he got that translation from though. Scans would be preferable.

Lies at the end/in front can still mean as part of a something. Front is "the side or part of an object that presebts itself to view or that is normally seen or used first; the most forward part of something". Magolor's wording alone can mean it being inside in the edge or just outside it.

 

[ThatOneMofo]

Off topic to this convo. could the Pink cube in the background of AD be considered as a Tesseract?