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Kirby vs. Joker (Ren Amamiya)

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It literally stops everything. Null Wind negates Vaccum Wave, which is literally a gigantic tornado, something that also sucks things in. Regardless, Joker's attacks are far faster than Kirby via them being thought-based and instant, and spawn right on the target. So Joker mindhaxes Kirby's mind, soul, and information or induces AOE death on him with the same properties and calls it a day.
 
But you haven't shown it negate momentum after being hit by a move. Negating the wind before it hits you isn't the same as being sucked in, then getting rid of the wind unless you remove the momentum. Vacuum Wave doesn't prove that.
 
00potato said:
But you haven't shown it negate momentum after being hit by a move. Negating the wind before it hits you isn't the same as being sucked in, then getting rid of the wind unless you remove the momentum. Vacuum Wave doesn't prove that.
Click to expand...
Joker's Null Wind is passive, the moment Kirby even begins opening his mouth it stops. Secondly, Vacuum Wave is an actual tornado, I'm not sure how it doesn't suck things in, it's how they work.
 
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
It literally stops everything. Null Wind negates Vaccum Wave, which is literally a gigantic tornado, something that also sucks things in. Regardless, Joker's attacks are far faster than Kirby via them being thought-based and instant, and spawn right on the target. So Joker mindhaxes Kirby's mind, soul, and information or induces AOE death on him with the same properties and calls it a day.
Click to expand...
This is a rebuttal to both of your recent comments.

I don't care that Joker's planning. Batman's planning, but you won't see people say he'll just gas the opponent gg or radion bullet gg. I don't care how planning Joker is, he's not getting away with things we don't allow for supergeniuses or characters with far more combat experience than him. Not to mention always planning doesn't mean combat genius. Not to mention all the things you listed can be said for literally every RPG character, from Red to Cloud to Demi-Fiend.

Yes, it stops the giant tornado if Null Wind is activated before the giant tornado is cast. Joker doesn't have some sort of grace period where he can cast Null Wind before the tornado hits him.

Again, I'm seriously questioning Joker's attacks being instant. We can see quite clearly in Arena that persona attacks aren't instant.

Mind and soul Kirby's be fine for but I'm still calling bs on info. And here's a rebuttal. Kirby hits him and calls it a day. Joker relies on two moves to win here. Kirby can use almost anything. Because again, I'm calling doubt on attack reflection hitting higher than it's tier because of endgame stuff.
 
Bottom line is even in the best case scenario and I'm completely wrong with everything, I highly doubt, Joker would still have to have Tetrakarn as his first move or else he dies.
 
Has the company that designed these characters specifically stated they're always planning outcomes in secret? And I'm... very certain I've seen Batman has his opponent multiple times before lol. Knockout gas, especially. Joker doesn't even surpass Genius, everything he's doing is literally genius level.

Null Wind is always activated, it's never turned off. So the moment Kirby even begins he's stopped. And... yes he does. Null Wind is once more, a passive ability, he can still cast his own. Where are you getting theee assumptions, Cal?

Also, Arena is quite literally the biggest example of instant attacks. Persona's come out instantly, attacks come out instantly, it's a fighting game, they have to. Even if they didn't, there's evidence outside it.

"BS on info stuff"

> Had a whole CRT for it.

> Had it accepted.

> On the profile.

???????

The difference is, Kirby has to get close to hit him. Can he do that before he's killed? Can he get past Tetrakarn/Repel Phy/Drain Phy/Evade Phy? No, because they're either passive or instant.

Tetrakarn is the option of Kirby decides to get in close and try punching him, if not, instant death.
 
Then how does he beat the Suck? Null wins only works if he has it out before Kirby reveals that he uses wind (not likely.) and Tetrakarn won't work.
 
Show me anywhere I said Tetrakarn did that.

Also you asked if he can get around Tetra, I answered that.
 
You asked cal if he can get around Tetra. I said that Tetra cannot stop the Suck. You got angry because you never mentioned Tetra stopping the Suck.

Re-read that.
 
Asking a question=/=Anger, don't misinterpret me.

Like you said, it doesn't stop the wind, and he'd only ever use it if Kirby tried hitting him physically. Inhale gets Null Wind. Then death/mindhax.
 
Has the company that designed these characters specifically stated they're always planning outcomes in secret? And I'm... very certain I've seen Batman has his opponent multiple times before lol. Knockout gas, especially. Joker doesn't even surpass Genius, everything he's doing is literally genius level.

Because "always planning" is very vague. And Batman normally engages you in h2h before anything else.

Null Wind is always activated, it's never turned off. So the moment Kirby even begins he's stopped. And... yes he does. Null Wind is once more, a passive ability, he can still cast his own. Where are you getting theee assumptions, Cal?

I can promise you Null Wind isn't always activated, and he has to switch to the Persona that has said ability. And again, it doesn't negate momentum.

Also, Arena is quite literally the biggest example of instant attacks. Persona's come out instantly, attacks come out instantly, it's a fighting game, they have to. Even if they didn't, there's evidence outside it.

Of course they come out instantly. The entire series is a Jojo homage. Of course they come out instantly. In terms of attacks though, no they don't. And yes, it's a fighting game. It's a fighting game that debunks your claim of instant attacks. What instances are there of it being instant anyway. Something tells me that it's using a one off instance.

"BS on info stuff"

> Had a whole CRT for it.

> Had it accepted.

> On the profile.

???????

What is the reasoning for info then, because from what I've seen, it's just claimed. I get mind and soul. I don't get info.

The difference is, Kirby has to get close to hit him. Can he do that before he's killed? Can he get past Tetrakarn/Repel Phy/Drain Phy/Evade Phy? No, because they're either passive or instant.

Easily, because Joker primarily attacks physically, with his guns or knife or Arsene. And again, all those spells or passives are NLFs. Tetrakarn would be done for if Kirby just double tapped.

Tetrakarn is the option of Kirby decides to get in close and try punching him, if not, instant death.

Joker barely even uses death. Seriously. If I said Mewtwo would use mindhax quickly, most of you would say "No he doesn't he uses telekinesis" but when it's here you agree with him being the grim reaper? This isn't even to Milly but to all of you.
 
> Joker's planning, and about Death attacks being rarely used.

First of all, on what basis do you claim that it's rarely used? He never fights in cutscenes in-game, so what are you basing this claim on? Second of all, in what world is switching to a Durability-Negating ability to bypass a Durability you can't overpower, a move that's beyond Geniuses? It's common sense. Joker can have Above-Average intelligence and still reasonably do this.

> Momentum

That's assuming that Joker picks up too much momentum before switching to Null Wind. Even if he gets lifted off of the ground and pulled towards Kirby, once he has Null Wind up, he can easily change his trajectory with another spell, or even his grappling hook. He's familiar enough with mid-air movements thanks to his acrobatics.

> Joker primarily attacks physically.

Again, on what basis are you making this claim? In terms of gameplay, using spells is typically preferred. In terms of the various anime, most Persona-users send their Persona to engage in melee instead of going in themselves, and with P5, guns and spells are typically used to open up fights; not melee.

> Passives are NLF

I have literally addressed this already. They are on the CRT, and are accepted as fact. Your disagreements are invalid until you properly dispute it, which you should know how to.

> Information Hax

Shadows are partially composed of pure information. Affecting them with attacks and ailments constitutes Information Manip.
 
joker can change to any persona's that he want and since it's end game joker that means he'll have santanel which drains curse and nulls bless and is resistsnt aganist everything else besides allmighty. so he has a lot of deffrenses just with 1 persona. he also have persona's that he can use that both relfect and drain's wind and/or physical...if we're calling kirbys inhale a wind or physical type move. btw i'm guessing we're not using royals right!?
 
Also no, it's not endgame so he doesn't have access to Satanael. It's only late game. If he was end game this match wouldn't have even needed to be made since you would be essentially throwing a 4-A to a low 2-C.
 
"Multi-Solar System level (Far superior to Shadow Okumura, whose palace contained countless stars)"
 
You know how many rpg characters get the "We don't know what they'd start off with so we don't assume they start with X?" All of them. Unless they have tie in media or cutscene feats, literally all of them. What makes Joker special? I've played quite a few RPGs in my day. If I'm playing Final Fantasy, if I'm not hurting an enemy, I'll assume they're weak to magic or summon or a different type of weapon before I cast freaking Doom.

Joker again, is hundreds of times weaker than Kirby here. The momentum alone should be enough to kill him. But I won't go that far.

See first paragraph in response to your third. If anything, guns means even more dead, because guns aren't doing anything here.

First off, I made a CRT already. You responded to it. Heck, you even gave minor agreement. Second, show me where it says on Joker's profile "all of his abilities are higher dimensional even in his weakest keys." Because if not, I can totally refute this without even needing a CRT, because it wouldn't be on the profile. Finally, I'm not done calling out the obvious double standard even if that were legit. I can promise you zero characters with tiers that increase while the game goes on, and there's a lot of them, they aren't assumed to have their abilities be the same in the early tier as they are in the final tier.

No, it's that they can hit Information. This is the same argument everyone shuts down when it comes to killing ghosts. Being able to kill ghosts doesn't mean that you OHKO with soulhax. I'll add that into the CRT.
 
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