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Kingdom Hearts General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Bobsican
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- disney kingdom hearts
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Yeah, Sora would have found Strelitzia before Lauriam without even knowing her and her connection with Lauriam or even trying to find her.
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I mean, it's the most obvious solution, between the blue flame that really looks similar to Hades, the voice that is very reminiscent of him and the fact that suddenly the blue flame seems to become orange/red like him when he's angry. Would actually be nice to see him play a bigger role than usual
Also, there's a theory that you can see an AT-ST foot from Star Wars in one scene in the forest zone (some say it's actually Endor itself)
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Wonder how she'll react when she'll learn that someone else got that priviliege before her 
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We don't know yet if Strelitzia is completely alone. If she has been in Quadratum for a while, then she presumably has some contacts there which would also explain how she got Sora into an apartment unless we want to assume that she did some illegal lockpicking with her Keyblade.
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We should also remember the Master of Masters is there to, he might have taken Sora into this apartment in the first place, whatever his motive is
Also, it's clear one of the black hodded figures is the Master but apparently someone else is there with him
Also, it's clear one of the black hodded figures is the Master but apparently someone else is there with him
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Theory seen on TV Tropes
"Donald and Goody do an Enemy Mine with Hades/other Disney villains to save Sora.
As Maleficent and Pete are the only ones who know about the Black Box (they literally saw Xigbar/Luxu with it), maybe they know the box is tied to Quadratum. That box can be retrieved with the powers of Disney villains, hence why Donald and Goofy are allying with Disney villains."
"Donald and Goody do an Enemy Mine with Hades/other Disney villains to save Sora.
As Maleficent and Pete are the only ones who know about the Black Box (they literally saw Xigbar/Luxu with it), maybe they know the box is tied to Quadratum. That box can be retrieved with the powers of Disney villains, hence why Donald and Goofy are allying with Disney villains."
Bobsican
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So Olympus is becoming a mainstay on the series for sure, nice.
TBH I saw that coming given it has been in literally every canon game but KH3D, but to the point they leave their world? To be fair, the plot of the entire movie has been told in KH by now, only the animated series remains and it seems they prefered to go this way.
I'm sure Maleficent and Pete asked Hades about a Black Box, meaning that he's aware of it, even if he thought they meant Pandora's Box as seen at the end of Olympus in KHIII. Given that Maleficent is seeking it, one could conclude he'd notice it'd be something worth looking for.
TBH I saw that coming given it has been in literally every canon game but KH3D, but to the point they leave their world? To be fair, the plot of the entire movie has been told in KH by now, only the animated series remains and it seems they prefered to go this way.
I'm sure Maleficent and Pete asked Hades about a Black Box, meaning that he's aware of it, even if he thought they meant Pandora's Box as seen at the end of Olympus in KHIII. Given that Maleficent is seeking it, one could conclude he'd notice it'd be something worth looking for.
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I’m all for Disney characters becoming more relevant in the plot so I hope we’re right and it is Hades. Otherwise, Star Wars feels inevitable at this point so I’m expecting that.
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Not all of them but at least Maleficent and Pete (and maybe Hades to)
Anyway, as Bob said above, the Hercules movie is now over and we know Olympus is extremely popular and Hades is by far one of the most popular Disney characters and villains so it wouldn't be surprising to make him appear here
i don't really know how to feel about the SW possibility. It would be cool but at the same time, I don't want Sora to defeat Vader, Palpatine and co, maybe that's because I'm a massively bigger fan of SW than KH but I feel Sora defeating all those people would just undermine the threat they originally are and the efforts of the original heroes. For example, if Vader appears and is a boss, I want Sora to outright lose, period.
Since we are here about theories, there are also some who say Gravity Falls might appear and Bill could play a major role, like being a rival to Maleficent.
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It probably is indeed because you like Star Wars more than Kingdom Hearts if you ask me. The current statistics on the profiles would already put the Kingdom Hearts characters above Star Wars and the abilities that Kingdom Hearts has on the profiles are a lot more varied and numerous than what is listed for Star Wars. While Kingdom Hearts does tend to ignore issues that would arise from the gap in statistics with the worlds that are being visited Sora did fight against Xehanort with the X-Blade among various other threats, so I don't see any character who doesn't play a larger role in the overall context of the series or can't leave their own world outright defeating Sora unless Sora lost his powers or got much weaker.
Sora being stronger than the antagonists from Star Wars wouldn't really make them weaker or less dangerous for their world's setting or standards though I can see that simply having Sora defeat them would be rather unsatisfying from a plot perspective, so if Sora does get involved in the events of a Star Wars world it should preferably be in a manner that doesn't have him outright all problems for the people there.
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Bobsican
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- #136
Let's not ignore that we're getting yet another canon smartphone game with KH Missing Link
Apparently timeline-wise it's between Union X and Dark Road.
In any case this year won't be empty given we're finally getting Dark Road in a few months.
Apparently timeline-wise it's between Union X and Dark Road.
In any case this year won't be empty given we're finally getting Dark Road in a few months.
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It's exactly my point. I know the KH cast is much stronger than SW, even putting aside this wiki, and there's no way the SW cast (canon at least) can do something but SW is much more memorable, serious and epic. Having Sora casually defeating legendary characters like Vader, Palpatine or Grievous and reducing them to small-scale villains confined to their world in the larger context of the series would give a serious blow to their dangerosity and impact. You could still find something to give them a power boost, like saying they're amped by the Darkness, but I really fear this would also lead the game to make them like Frollo. I don't want to see Palpatine, one of the most legendary, powerful and cunning villains in all of fiction, being defeated cause "couldn't control the darkness so he was overcome", that would be insulting to a degree.
But even then, my "problem" is more about Sora. It's not that I don't like him, it's that he's just fine at best. If I'm being honest, III kind of annoyed me with how almost everyone, from Kairi to Riku to Mickey to Aqua and so on, was kind of weakened to make Sora stand above everyone else, especially since he's almost a chosen one at this point, like everybody is behind him like he's the ultimate savior, he unlocks abilities only known to legendary people at first and he's almost perfect in terms of personnality. I was honestly happy to see him lose against Terra-Xehanort, cause it really feel like he's turning into some kind of Gary Stu and it was good to see that no, he can't do everything. It's an entirely personal problem but I largely prefer protagonists like Terra and Aqua.
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Yep, I'm kind of curious about master Odin
Though I'm also kind of annoyed once again, a mobile game will have some crucial lore informations over larger games
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I can't judge how Star Wars compares to Kingdom Hearts outside of some details I know about it but I feel like as if making things like their impact or dignity dependent on Sora not coming to their world would be kind of insulting as well since this is like saying that they can only act as good villains because Sora didn't coincidentally stumble upon their world. It should be enough if they are portrayed as genuinely capable and intelligent with Sora's involvement not solving all the issues that happen because of them which should realistically be the case since Sora would only be there for a certain duration of time and it would be up to the people of that world to take care of the aftermath and repercussions and anything they might have done while Sora wasn't there. Sora arriving wouldn't undo the damage already caused and the efforts made to combat the antagonists.
Well, Sora is clearly still capable of getting into situations that are difficult for him and there was even that cutscene for him losing against Yozora, so I don't think that he was ever treated as infallible or invincible though I can see the issue with the story having him solve problems instead of having other characters do this though I feel like as if this is fine for KHIII as long as they give proper focus on the other characters in future games.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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- #140
Well, Sora has enought flaws to distance him from a Gary Stu, for starters, he's not the smartest around (hell, Goofy is somehow the voice of wisdom in the trio, and Riku could understand stuff more than him), he also was unable to reach for Tron in KH3D as he fell, and prone to being knocked out several times. While Star Wars villains simply are eclipsed in scope compared to half of the KH villains and all, they are still a considerable big deal to their world, and they wouldn't be taken lightly either.
TFW the statement at the start of the Missing Link trailer also backs up that hearts are a byproduct of light and darkness, which were around the start.
TFW the statement at the start of the Missing Link trailer also backs up that hearts are a byproduct of light and darkness, which were around the start.
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Honestly, I’m just worried that characters from the previous games will be sidelined at this point and won’t be relevant again. I’m quite fond of the Day’s trio myself and can’t help but hope they continue to be used in a meaningful way.
Though with that being said, I’m very interested to see where the KH4 story will go.
Though with that being said, I’m very interested to see where the KH4 story will go.
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Well, there are the implications of Riku going to Quadratum, Donald and Goofy going to Hades for help and Kairi presumably becoming more capable and helping out as well. Nomura will presumably make an effort to have her make significant contributions if her portrayal in Re:Mind is an indication. There is also whatever Terra, Aqua and Ventus are up to in the Realm of Darkness and Sora still having to properly thank Naminé. Ventus will definitely play a special role due to his connection to Union X and Roxas was hardly portrayed as incapable in KHIII, so that's something that I expect to stay the case. Lea and Isa still have to find Subject X and Xion is basically guaranteed to get involved in the future plotlines with Roxas and Axel present. Mickey was given a really great scene against the Replica Xehanorts, so they aren't going to just drop him in my opinion. There is also whatever happened with Mickey, Donald and Goofy in Union X.
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"making things like their impact or dignity dependent on Sora not coming to their world would be kind of insulting as well since this is like saying that they can only act as good villains because Sora didn't coincidentally stumble upon their world"
Same, I just wanted to say that I hoped they would be treated as seriously as they deserve. I'm not saying I suddenly want Vader to be able to match Sora and co outside of his world and becoming the main bad guy capable of taking down entire worlds, I just want this series to not be reduced to simply being another step liek any other world. III was good with Pirates of the Carribean cause they made Jones memorable with Sora's reaction (even Xehanort didn't cause such a visceral response) and it was good. Well if we ever get a SW world, I want to see that kind of stuff.
"though I can see the issue with the story having him solve problems instead of having other characters do this though I feel like as if this is fine for KHIII as long as they give proper focus on the other characters in future games."
Definitely my issue
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I might be one of the only fans of the series who doesn't love this trio. The only one that interests me a bit is Axel cause he's sarcastic and fun and even then, he's not that memorable. And I really don't care at all for Xion, most fans see her as an excellent tragic character and I'm just here like "Meh". It's the exact opposite for the BBS trio, I love all three of them, Terra and Aqua being above Ventus for me but still love him
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I'm split about the scene where she puts Xemnas on the edge. It was cool to FINALLY see her do SOMETHING but I feel it was kind of forced. I don't like this idea where a young hero who is up against someone much more powerful, skilled and experienced than them suddenly puts the older character in difficulties just because the plot wants them to stand out. Making an otherwise utterly strong and skilled character being put in difficulties or even lose to a character who should be easy for them to take down just to make said character stand out is really not one of the my favorite tropes (looking at you No Way Home). I think it would have been better if Kairi did the same with a mid-level tier member of the Organization XIII, like Marluxia for example
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Okay, I can agree with that.
Well, if they focus more on how Roxas and Xion are going to be as people independent from Sora that lead their own lifes after the hardships they've suffered, then they might get characterization that you might like more than what they've previously gotten. I myself like them and am looking forward to their future appearances and hope that Lea makes good progress as a Keyblade Wielder. He will presumably get some good scenes with Isa during their search for Subject X after all.
Xemnas didn't exactly suffer difficulties for long and he quickly restrained her after that, so this isn't exactly an egregious example. Her fight against Xehanort in Melody of Memory makes it quite clear that she is good but still not quite on the level of those she is fighting against, so that's something the series is taking into consideration. This is presumably not going to be as much of an issue in KH4.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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- #149
KHIV:
- Union X is now a must play for the next saga, before many players used to skip it out of being a gacha smartphone game. Man, UX is really the new Re:Coded now.
- Quadratum is indeed the afterlife as I already expected before with how Master of Masters describes it at the end of Union X, and of course other implications in Melody of Memory.
- Because of the above, it isn't a major surprise to see Strelitzia in there, but it is a surprise that she's the one that found Sora over there.
- Quadratum has infinite worlds, which'd be universes for our purposes as of the 2-B to 2-A upgrade thread, thus leaving room for even more 2-A feats, however, given that Sora's world (the Realm of Light) is mentioned to be among them, that'd imply Quadratum can store reality to fiction layers within itself, which may rise to even higher or lower tiers, especially if there's infinite of them, depending on how exactly Quadratum is "fiction" to the main cosmology.
- A heart may be bound to a soul, which would make KH yet another verse with fancy souls a la Bleach and DMC.
- Stuff like a Star Wars world and Hades coming back are considerable possibilities already talked about here.
Missing Link:
- Clearly shows Kingdom of Corona, Monstropolis (unsure), Scala Ad Caelum and the Keyblade Graveyard (unsure as well)
- Hearts appear to indeed be the byproduct of the primordial light and darkness, further backing up CM type 1 for them
- Brain being around, combined with this chronologically being after Union X but before Dark Road implies that this is going to follow Sigurd and company over some new plot yet to be told.
- Union X is now a must play for the next saga, before many players used to skip it out of being a gacha smartphone game. Man, UX is really the new Re:Coded now.
- Quadratum is indeed the afterlife as I already expected before with how Master of Masters describes it at the end of Union X, and of course other implications in Melody of Memory.
- Because of the above, it isn't a major surprise to see Strelitzia in there, but it is a surprise that she's the one that found Sora over there.
- Quadratum has infinite worlds, which'd be universes for our purposes as of the 2-B to 2-A upgrade thread, thus leaving room for even more 2-A feats, however, given that Sora's world (the Realm of Light) is mentioned to be among them, that'd imply Quadratum can store reality to fiction layers within itself, which may rise to even higher or lower tiers, especially if there's infinite of them, depending on how exactly Quadratum is "fiction" to the main cosmology.
- A heart may be bound to a soul, which would make KH yet another verse with fancy souls a la Bleach and DMC.
- Stuff like a Star Wars world and Hades coming back are considerable possibilities already talked about here.
Missing Link:
- Clearly shows Kingdom of Corona, Monstropolis (unsure), Scala Ad Caelum and the Keyblade Graveyard (unsure as well)
- Hearts appear to indeed be the byproduct of the primordial light and darkness, further backing up CM type 1 for them
- Brain being around, combined with this chronologically being after Union X but before Dark Road implies that this is going to follow Sigurd and company over some new plot yet to be told.
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I still have some reservations since we only see Sora and Strelitzia as examples of it acting as an afterlife and the world seems to be mostly populated by inhabitants which originated from there. It doesn't help that it was described as sort of an afterlife instead of just being called one.
I don't think that this is a case of Quadratum containing infinite worlds though I can agree with there being infinite worlds. The Nameless Star was clearly referring to the city as Quadratum, so Quadratum would just be one of the infinite worlds. It also wouldn't make sense for the Realm of Light, the Realm of Darkness and the Realm Between to be in Quadratum when it is supposed to be on the other side of reality.
It was merely said that the heart resides in the soul which still leaves them as distinct things which shouldn't be much different from how the soul resides in the body. Unless Kingdom Hearts introduces Soul Manipulation as a recurring ability not much is going to come out of this.
Sniper670
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I'm watching the thread but I don't have much to contribute.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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I probably should mention here as well that I bothered doing this cursed abomination
Given that the ending of V Cast got revealed (don't worry, V Cast explicitly isn't canon), I may as well rant a bit on how terrible the game is
- Gameplay has nearly no sound, and the sounds that do exist are too short and repetitive, in fact I think there's only 8 sound tracks in the whole game (one for opening a chest, starting a level or boss, another for the title and game over screen, another for Keyblade hits, another for enemy hits, and one for each spell (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder), and there's been NES games with far more sounds than that to say the least.
- Graphics look even worse than Super Mario 64 (Which funnily enought is what gave inspiration to start KHI as a 3D game), even with a resolution worse than a GBA, the polygons are more than visible and surely poorly optimized (reminds me of how SM64DS looks "better" than the N64 version even if it actually uses less polygons)
- The plot is very simple. Sora, Donald and Goofy are traveling from "the edge of the universe" on the Gummi Ship. They leave it on auto pilot and go to sleep for the night, then Maleficent reaches them, kidnaps Donald and Goofy, and sentences Sora to a curse to turn him into a Heartless by midnight, and so now he somehow travels across Swordman's Island (original world), Wonderland (the chapter is still lost, thank how the app would delete completed chapters for the latest one), Agrabah and finally Maleficent's Castle. The travel between each world isn't really explained (Sora remarks he has no access to the Gummi Ship, yet just "mysteriously" appears there by going to sleep).
While it'd be a nice plot twist to make one wonder if the whole thing is a dream to begin with it or not, Jiminy Cricket's overexposure of the setting just confirms it wasn't, making it even more cringeworthy to me, especially with how many plot holes immediately rise anyways.
Oh yeah, the most obvious broken thing from original canon is that Maleficent could steal Sora's Keyblade to open a portal to free the darkness, although we all know she wouldn't be choosen by it, man, even Smash got that right, smh.
- Hitboxes are really terrible, I've seen Roblox games with better collision than this, you can very easily slip off places a la Sonic 06 even in intended areas.
- As a old phone game, the controls are also terrible, as one would expect.
Given that the ending of V Cast got revealed (don't worry, V Cast explicitly isn't canon), I may as well rant a bit on how terrible the game is
- Gameplay has nearly no sound, and the sounds that do exist are too short and repetitive, in fact I think there's only 8 sound tracks in the whole game (one for opening a chest, starting a level or boss, another for the title and game over screen, another for Keyblade hits, another for enemy hits, and one for each spell (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder), and there's been NES games with far more sounds than that to say the least.
- Graphics look even worse than Super Mario 64 (Which funnily enought is what gave inspiration to start KHI as a 3D game), even with a resolution worse than a GBA, the polygons are more than visible and surely poorly optimized (reminds me of how SM64DS looks "better" than the N64 version even if it actually uses less polygons)
- The plot is very simple. Sora, Donald and Goofy are traveling from "the edge of the universe" on the Gummi Ship. They leave it on auto pilot and go to sleep for the night, then Maleficent reaches them, kidnaps Donald and Goofy, and sentences Sora to a curse to turn him into a Heartless by midnight, and so now he somehow travels across Swordman's Island (original world), Wonderland (the chapter is still lost, thank how the app would delete completed chapters for the latest one), Agrabah and finally Maleficent's Castle. The travel between each world isn't really explained (Sora remarks he has no access to the Gummi Ship, yet just "mysteriously" appears there by going to sleep).
While it'd be a nice plot twist to make one wonder if the whole thing is a dream to begin with it or not, Jiminy Cricket's overexposure of the setting just confirms it wasn't, making it even more cringeworthy to me, especially with how many plot holes immediately rise anyways.
Oh yeah, the most obvious broken thing from original canon is that Maleficent could steal Sora's Keyblade to open a portal to free the darkness, although we all know she wouldn't be choosen by it, man, even Smash got that right, smh.
- Hitboxes are really terrible, I've seen Roblox games with better collision than this, you can very easily slip off places a la Sonic 06 even in intended areas.
- As a old phone game, the controls are also terrible, as one would expect.
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Bruh I've watched some gameplay videos of that, it looks like a bad side project Square put some work into just so an intern could work a bit
The only good thing is that Maleficent is the real villain of a KH game, wich actually honors her since she's not a pawn or a secondary character at best
The only good thing is that Maleficent is the real villain of a KH game, wich actually honors her since she's not a pawn or a secondary character at best
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Nice! That’s pretty neat actually. I forgot that V Cast game existed.
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Ok, then I'll ask for it to be closed
Bobsican
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Anyways, I've thought of a way to push considerably higher some resistances on the series
Like, the cards in Castle Oblivion are canon and all, which leads into their mechanic of bypassing the card of the opponent so long it has a value higher as usable.
Now, stuff like Stopga can reach up to 28 layers out of this (Being above 3 cards with a value of 9 by using 3 cards with a value of 0), and bosses still resist that. Now, while it'd look like a game mechanic and all, thing is that Lethal Frame straight up bypasses that, that combined with such resistance being inherent, rather than bound to cards, leads into such resistances being usable even outside Castle Oblivion for all we know.
Therefore, I wonder if it'd be a good idea to do a CRT based on the above to push everyone having at least 28 layers of resistance/potency in stuff like time stop, void manip (lol Ragnarok) and so on.
If I find a way to scale this to darkness Sora stands a chance to Rimuru
Like, the cards in Castle Oblivion are canon and all, which leads into their mechanic of bypassing the card of the opponent so long it has a value higher as usable.
Now, stuff like Stopga can reach up to 28 layers out of this (Being above 3 cards with a value of 9 by using 3 cards with a value of 0), and bosses still resist that. Now, while it'd look like a game mechanic and all, thing is that Lethal Frame straight up bypasses that, that combined with such resistance being inherent, rather than bound to cards, leads into such resistances being usable even outside Castle Oblivion for all we know.
Therefore, I wonder if it'd be a good idea to do a CRT based on the above to push everyone having at least 28 layers of resistance/potency in stuff like time stop, void manip (lol Ragnarok) and so on.
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Well you can still do it, at worst you might waste some of your time but it will still be valuable I think
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