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King Hassan's Tier II

Still going with Plain Tiamat tier. As I said before, a fellow Grand Servant Solomon is already scaled directly to Goetia and iirc, Solomon was already severely weakened there, VS First Hassan being at top shape. Also what Paul said as well; he cut off Tiamat's wings. That's pretty blatant. It's not like he used Azrael there, his sword is just an ordinary sword so this means he swung that sword with enough energy/force to match Tiamat's tier.

Also, lore-wise Grand Servants are summoned in response to fight Beasts. And also, Grand Servants are just bonkers in terms of the Nasuverse totem scaling pole so it makes sense for Grand Hassan to be just plain on the same tier as Tiamat and other Beasts.

No likely, possibly, or at most. Just plain 2-A, or whatever tier the mods want Nasuverse top tiers to be in. You can't be "possibly 2-A" when you literally cut a 2-A being's wings.
 
Also didn't Gilgamesh said in the last Babylonia episode (or was that merlin who said it), that grand servants are insanely overpowered and they have to be since they are made to go up against beasts?
 
7 Grand Servants are summoned once a beast wakes in the living world as stated on the Baylonia singularity. So It's safe to say his attack potency scales to Tiamat's durability whether she's self sealing herself or not. And if that isn't the case, he shouldn't be able to harm her which he did like when he casually sliced both of her wings. All that's said, he should be respectively put on at least the 2-A tier for that matter.
 
Okay looking at the old arguments, it seems very weird.


Like, Hassan's sword is automatically "dura-ignore" just because it has death hax? I mean sure, death hax does ignore durability, but that doesn't mean every single slash First Hassan does is always using the death hax. If that were the case then the moment he cut off Tiamat's wings, she would already have the concept of death in her. Also, you can have high AP while still having death hax. Like that Machina guy who's a literal one punch man. He has Mountain AP (I think, I don't Masada), but he still has death hax. He still can oneshot a Town level dura guy with his punches, even without the death hax. (Or concept hax. Masadaverse is broken)


First Hassan's sword is literally said to be just a "commonplace" sword, so that obviously isn't Azrael AKA the death hax itself. It's not the sword; it's First Hassan himself who has that death hax. Also, another thing. If all slashes from First Hassan were really dura-ignoring due to his death hax, then that means Ozymandias would be dead on the spot, Grail be damned. Also him clashing with Gawain? Even if he was being casual, Gawain would still die just from their swords clashing. See how nonsensical that would be?


Also, First Hassan never really struggled against Gawain or anyone for that matter, prior to Tiamat. He has never really been "matched" per se. Heck, I think I even remember someone stating that First Hassan can beat even Goddess Rhongomyniad, easily at that. So it's not really a stretch for Grand First Hassan to have AP and Dura and Speed on the same level as the likes of Beast-class tiers (Goetia, Arjuna Alter, Kama, etc.).


So I still firmly believe that First Hassan, in his Grand Servant form at least, is strictly and plainly 2-A (Or again, whatever Tier VSBW mods want Nasuverse top tiers to be in. This is not about the tiering, this is about the scaling). Cutting off the wings of someone who is physically 2-A should most definitely warrant a buff to 2-A.


Now... First Hassan interlude when? Gramps deserves some more story. (And maybe make him even MORE unkillable; Evening Bell now grants Invincibility hehehehe)
 
The whole argument side is that KH depleted his Grand Saint Graph to enforce concept of death on her and slash her wing.

Meaning his 2-A tiering should be a one attack only. Read the first few points where they talk about Tiamat, her self-harming skill and Nasu's WoG. They didn't really touch upon Gawain.
 
But his hax had nothing to do with AP he lost his saint graph because he created a glitch in the system forcing it to have death in it, him slashing Tiamat was just to stop her from escaping.
 
Honestly don't care however you guys interpret Nasu WoG. Just wanted to correct Shiny post about the opposing side being all about "lol death hax neg dura" or "lol Gawain" or whatever
 
What Dangai said. Grands aren't meant to interfere outside of being summoned by the World (or smth like that).

Nasu said that to side with Chaldea would mean giving up his Grand status, so when Gramps did exactly that, his status was revoked. Despite losing said status though, he didn't lose the power that was already in his Saint Graph, and he used it to impose the concept of death in Tiamat.

As a proper Grand, said power would replenish and he'd be able to do it repeatedly.

That said, the hax has no bearing on his AP, as it doesn't allow his physical strikes to bypass Durability, even if the effects of the hax itself does.
 
Solacis said:
What Dangai said. Grands aren't meant to interfere outside of being summoned by the World (or smth like that).
Nasu said that to side with Chaldea would mean giving up his Grand status, so when Gramps did exactly that, his status was revoked. Despite losing said status though, he didn't lose the power that was already in his Saint Graph, and he used it to impose the concept of death in Tiamat.

As a proper Grand, said power would replenish and he'd be able to do it repeatedly.

That said, the hax has no bearing on his AP, as it doesn't allow his physical strikes to bypass Durability, even if the effects of the hax itself does.
Click to expand...
All of this. Imposing the Concept of Death isn't what cost King Hassan his Grand Status. It was choosing to side with Chaldea that required him to give it up to help them. And before he had his Grand lvl strength completely lost, he used what was left to impose death onto Tiamat, and take her wings off.

Why is Gawain being brought up? He fought KH, but it's obvious KH wasn't really trying. Just holding Gawain there to let the Chaldea team go in and do their thing. Then he peaced out. But yeah. Gramps scaling to Tiamat. 2-A or otherwise. Let's gooo!
 
Huh. So that's why people think it's hax and not AP

Okay... That does make sense.. but yeah, what Solacis said on the AP and slash hax thing makes sense so I still think First Hassan's AP is Beast tier. Sorry for the misunderstanding and confusion I caused though!
 
Okay now this is just minor but

Shouldn't Gramps' page name be renamed to "Assassin (First Hassan/King Hassan)"? Just to tie it in with the other names of the Servants to make it look more organized. Also First Hassan is technically the official NA name for Gramps, not King Hassan.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Okay now this is just minor but
Shouldn't Gramps' page name be renamed to "Assassin (First Hassan/King Hassan)"? Just to tie it in with the other names of the Servants to make it look more organized. Also First Hassan is technically the official NA name for Gramps, not King Hassan.
Click to expand...
Or just Hassan because the Class Assassin itself comes from his own order that he founded since you do not need any catalyst to summon a Hassan since the Assassin class itself IS Hassan

...Or instead of Assassin, put Grand Assassin (King Hassan/First Hassan or his actual name)
 
His true name is just "Old Man of the Mountain", first Hassan and King Hassan are just nicknames
 
His true name is Hassan-l-Sabbah. King Hassan/First Hassan are nicknames, and Old Man of the Mountain is the title all the leaders of the sect are given. He even announces Hassan-I-Sabbah as his true name when he takes off Tiamat's wings.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Also, what of speed? Any changes? Do all of his stats in his GA key scale to Tig Biddy Snek GF?
Click to expand...
Yes he should be comparable to Tiamat. Unless it is said otherwise Grand servants should scale to beast's.
 
ThatDarnFish said:
His true name is Hassan-l-Sabbah. King Hassan/First Hassan are nicknames, and Old Man of the Mountain is the title all the leaders of the sect are given. He even announces Hassan-I-Sabbah as his true name when he takes off Tiamat's wings.
Click to expand...
Assassin (Hassan-I-Sabbah) should work then. Since he is the original owner of the name, it fits he gets the OG name, unlike the rest who have codenames, like "Assassin (Hassan of the Cursed Arm)".
 
Excellent.


When do we get it fixed that Imposing Death on Tiamat wasn't what caused him to lose his Grand Sait Graph, and that happened as a direct result of him joining Chaldea? uwu
 
Well, she's a Divine Spirit, Her swordsmanship despite her main style being usinng her lance being equal to Hassan's. Literally that off the top of my head, I'm still relatively close to the beginning of Camelot
 
Yeah she should scale no problem to Hassan since he would have been the only real challenge to her also didn't she had Excalibur somewhere with her?

She was about to take on Ritsuka and the others after taking out her sword.
 
There was no conclusive proof that Goddess Rhon could fight equally with Hassan though, wasn't there? The only one who said that was Gawain, and considering he was utterly fodderized, he couldn't have known how strong Hassan actually was.

Plus, canonically, Goddess Rhon was defeated with just Mash, Da Vinci, Bedivere and maybe Ritsuka's Servant shades based on the Shimosa manga. Unless you tell me that Mash, Bedi and Da Vinci collectively could put up a fight with Hassan, then she can't scale.
 
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