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Kamen Rider Revision: No More 2-A Edition

Confluctor said:
How does the scaling work in this case? Also if he has immortality type 5, how was he killed initially?

Was the soul kept safe by the system?

...Do we actually see anyone get close to it? Or this character gets close to that level?


Now I understand the cosmology (?) is 2-B, but how does the scaling chain works here and why would they be affected? Did they fight one another or...? I am just trying to get a bit more context
Click to expand...
To answer your questions in order:

Firstly, He was killed for countless times and revived back, only after Gaim come in that he is dead for sure:

[I myself has already destroyed that driver. But if he’s resurrected, then that would mean he has controlled the cultists of Black Bodhi Tree by using the Zakuro Lockseed, to creates a new driver. Althought that would take a huge effort]

In the battle, he has been destroyed for countless times. Everytime that happens, he will resurrect again, then get destroyes again.

The skeleton dinosaur jumps up, trying to trample and crush the silver warrior with its overwhelmingly humongous body, shatters the ground into crater with it's landing shockwave.
However, there is no presence of the silver warrior under him.
Saver, who is buried under skeletons, looking up at above of his head. He found in the sky of this sunless world, there’s appears a mass of energy shining in orange color. It’s shine brilliant like the morning’s light that illuminates the darkness.

[Kiwami Squash !]

The kick of the white silver warrior donning in orange aura pierces through the skeleton dinosaur.
The golden shining explosion envelopes the skeleton dinosaur, Saver. Return the dead back to ashes and dusts.

Secondly, the souls were inside the system so that Kugai can absorb them later.

Thirdly, when Kugai become higher-dimensional he was able to see all creation at once and claimed that he has become omniscient. The same thing happened to everyone when Saver System got activated:

He is being enveloped in joys and ecstasies. At this moment, he is a nigh-omniscient being. Although he has lost his flesh vessel, his spirit is flying high, he has transcended the humanity.

They are sharing the world that Kudo Kugai sees.
They become Kudo Kugai, and then they become the world itself.
They has stepped into the territory of omniscient and omnipotent

For the scaling chain, here is how it work:
 
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Hm I see. I still find Immortality type 5 dubious from the passages above. Just seems like 4. Tho if he did transcend death, then ig it can work. Although i am not sure how legit transcendance in this case is.


I find the scaling to Kouta also a bit weird. Aren't you backscaling here?
 
Confluctor said:
Hm I see. I still find Immortality type 5 dubious from the passages above. Just seems like 4. Tho if he did transcend death, then ig it can work. Although i am not sure how legit transcendance in this case is.


I find the scaling to Kouta also a bit weird. Aren't you backscaling here?
Click to expand...
Well the scaling chain is like this:

Ryugen, Zangetsu = Saver who have 2-B feat.

Kouta >>> Saver via reason above.

Megahex >> Kouta via overwhelming him in their first encouter.

Decade Complete 21 >>> Kouta via having all of his power, plus every Heisei Riders combined.
 
Jamesthetaker said:
Kouta >>> Saver via reason above.
Click to expand...
See, this is what I have a problem with - as an outsider to the verse. Does Kouta have feats on this level? If so, then sure. But if he doesn't, why would he scale to these guys? When he had the suit, it wasn't as potent, but now it is, but that doesn't mean he should scale to it. I am just a bit confused.
 
Confluctor said:
See, this is what I have a problem with - as an outsider to the verse. Does Kouta have feats on this level? If so, then sure. But if he doesn't, why would he scale to these guys? When he had the suit, it wasn't as potent, but now it is, but that doesn't mean he should scale to it. I am just a bit confused.
Click to expand...
Alright, i will keep it as brief as possible:

Basically, there is an object called Golden Fruit in the verse. Everyone want a piece of this thing because it grant the person who eat it god-like power. The plot of entire novel revolve around Kugai attempting to create an artificial Fruit for himself, then he did it and rest is history. Despite this, Ryouma, the researcher who once did similer experiment as Kugai, claim that the artificial one is just a piece of trash and can't compared to the real thing. In this case, not only Kouta have the real Golden Fruit at his disposal but he also one-shotted Kugai at the end of novel.

As for Megahex, he only appeared once in the movie and was being shown to be stronger than characters. Other characters has to rely on Kouta and another Rider to defeat him at the climax of movie.
 
Okay, now that makes sense. But the scaling chain created from Kouta is... a bit odd. Unless the other characters scaling to him has feats on similar level, I don't see why they would scale to him now.
 
Confluctor said:
Okay, now that makes sense. But the scaling chain created from Kouta is... a bit odd. Unless the other characters scaling to him has feats on similar level, I don't see why they would scale to him now.
Click to expand...
Well, Megahex fought Kouta and later absorbed the Golden Fruit into himself so i think it is consistent enough? Decade got his own 2-B feat, just that he will get a solid rating and a scaling chain to back him up.
 
To sum up the people who've agree with the revision, starting since my proposal changed to 2-B:

Agree: @Vietthai96, @Nicetoderp, @MagiSinbad, @Sir_Ovens, @Confluctor, @LordGriffin1000

Disagree: @Lonkitt (He disagree with using Buddhism for context and giving Zangetsu, Ryugen new key), @XXKINGXX69, @deonment (He also disagree with using Buddhism for context)

Neutral: @Maskofthedragon

I've addressed @Lonkitt and @deonment point about using Buddhism here as not taking literally religious in context but interpret the term "three thousand worlds" based on the etymology of the verse has presented, they have yet counter my point back. As here, Kugai have become one with reality based on the excerpts in OP (142-144; 159-160), whether did we considering the meaning of "three thousand worlds" here as literal or not, the exact context is pretty much the same.

So I'm supposed this is fine enough to add?
 
I agree with the revisions. I think this is fine for us to add since three mods have agreed with the proposals.
 
BERRIES555 said:
I agree with the revisions. I think this is fine for us to add since three mods have agreed with the proposals.
Click to expand...
Well, i just wanna make sure. Count you in then we got 4 users + 3 mods agreed with this revision, if nothing else happened then i will apply this tomorrow.
 
Jamesthetaker said:
I've addressed @Lonkitt and @deonment point about using Buddhism here as not taking literally religious in context but interpret the term "three thousand worlds" based on the etymology of the verse has presented, they have yet counter my point back. As here, Kugai have become one with reality based on the excerpts in OP (142-144; 159-160), whether did we considering the meaning of "three thousand worlds" here as literal or not, the exact context is pretty much the same.
Click to expand...
I still disagree that Buddhism should even be mentioned here, it's not relevant to the evidence

I also think at this point, there's enough evidence for 2009 Decade to just be a solid 2-B
 
Lonkitt said:
I still disagree that Buddhism should even be mentioned here, it's not relevant to the evidence

I also think at this point, there's enough evidence for 2009 Decade to just be a solid 2-B
Click to expand...
If so then i will just simply use all existence term in this case, is that okay?
 
Jamesthetaker said:

Conclusion​

The following characters scaling to Low 1-C 2-B are:
Click to expand...
What the hell no. I might agree with Decade is 2-B but not by scaling from Man of Beginning. I mean how can you scale like that when Man of Beginning is stronger than Ohma Zi-O?
 
superretarded said:
What the hell no. I might agree with Decade is 2-B but not by scaling from Man of Beginning. I mean how can you scale like that when Man of Beginning is stronger than Ohma Zi-O?
Click to expand...
"Man of Beginning and Overlord of Darkness are existences exceed the humanity, I have a feeling that they are stronger than Ohma Zi-Oh who are not beyond human"

yeah, Shirakura isnt even sure about his own word.
Not to mention WoG is regarded as one of the weakest form of evidence on the wiki.
And you forgot that Ridewatchs not only allow the user to uses the Rider's power, but also their physiology. Woz was able to tabbed onto the Gaia Library through the W ridewatch, Faiz Anotherwatch's user was able to sire another Orphnoch. Those are not the powers of the rider, they are the powers of avatar of the earth and an Orphnoch. Let not forget that Grand Zi-O was able to hold the Zanvat Sword, which would reject anyone who isnt the King of Fangires.

So it isnt stretching it to say Ohma Zi-O has the Man of Beginning powers.
 
MagiSinbad said:
"Man of Beginning and Overlord of Darkness are existences exceed the humanity, I have a feeling that they are stronger than Ohma Zi-Oh who are not beyond human"

yeah, Shirakura isnt even sure about his own word.
Not to mention WoG is regarded as one of the weakest form of evidence on the wiki.
And you forgot that Ridewatchs not only allow the user to uses the Rider's power, but also their physiology. Woz was able to tabbed onto the Gaia Library through the W ridewatch, Faiz Anotherwatch's user was able to sire another Orphnoch. Those are not the powers of the rider, they are the powers of avatar of the earth and an Orphnoch. Let not forget that Grand Zi-O was able to hold the Zanvat Sword, which would reject anyone who isnt the King of Fangires.

So it isnt stretching it to say Ohma Zi-O has the Man of Beginning powers.
Click to expand...
well true tho, he even forgets that Decade can tranform into the strongest form of every rider
 
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