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Kakashi Hatake VS Boa Hancock

Calaca Vs said:
Okay, does Kakashi lead with Genjutsu in a serious fight? Because putting Boruto under a Genjutsu seems more like plot justified instead of an actual combat mindset.
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No, he did it against Sakura (twice) as well. Most enemies he faces can break it easily, but he also prefers using his sharingan in combat and... yeah.

WHile I'm not sure he'd start with it, he would use it pretty quickly.
 
So he should use it before Hancock turns him in stone with every attack she has at her disposal.
 
Calaca Vs said:
So he should use it before Hancock turns him in stone with every attack she has at her disposal.
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With how he would never tank an attack, speed amp and the ability to switch places with objects, not exactly hard.
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra go to overview
this is for genjutsu https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu go to overview again
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here
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You see, the problem is... you are using a fanmade wikia as proof. And no, none of their links prove that all beings have chakra, let alone that chakra is a constant energy and not something that needs to be molded at will.

I used canon stuff that contradicts this, so that's that.


Also..

Litirally the first sentece:Since being spread by Hagoromo, better known as the Sage of Six Paths

Your own qoute contradicts you, and you call us ignorant.
 
so u want to use something that contradicts something else stated previosuly in the manga to make a point, but when i use another wiki im out of comission? got it
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
so u want to use something that contradicts something else stated previosuly in the manga to make a point, but when i use another wiki im out of comission? got it
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Could you at least try to use grammar? I am no genius when it comes to it, but I do something to keep it legible.

And again, the problems are many here. Firstly, there is one statement contradicted four times, 5 with the time Madara genjutsu'd a cat, but I can't find that scan right now.

Secondly, the statement is assuming that Jiraiya didn't mean that you should control the chakra you inject.

Thirdly, the novels contradict it. Which on it's own wouldn't mean much, but with the first two points it simply means that it got retconned, as simple as that.
 
madara never genjutsud a cat in the manga as far as i know, so there's, but animals do have chakra. ever heard of kiba? how about his dog? that comes from a family of dogs trained as ninja (just like normal humans wow) to use chakra and cooperate with other human ninjas.


im gonna try to explain this one final time. its getting tiring. all humans chakra some amount of chakra that they are born with. that is a fact. they can train to mold said chakra by using hand seals, and make their set amount of chakra even bigger by training their minds and bodies. another fact. that is might not be stated enough for u to take it as a fact, but it has been proven more than enough to be one. otherwise, academies wouldnt exist to train people in the first place. that is shown in the manga, making it prioritary canon, above all else. novels (if they are actually canon in the first place), anime, and databooks are all secondary canon.
 
@Calaca. No, her strikes affect what she hits, and not the entire body part in it's totality. That's obvious enough in the All Out War or other times she has attacked people.

Not to mention, this further reinforces the notion Kakashi is likely to Genjutsu if he gets touched because... getting petrified is a pretty big deal, and he's gonna test his options. Even further if we assume Observation Haki let's her evade most of his shtick, making him try something less direct.
 
Animals have Yin and Yang. That can be combined into chakra with training.

I don't care what you think is right. I posted scans from the manga that plain contradict it, and with that, I won' t respond anymore.

Make a crt to add the weakness you think genjutsu has.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
I don't care what you think is right. I posted scans from the manga that plain contradict it, and with that, I won' t respond anymore.

Make a crt to add the weakness you think genjutsu has.
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Can't you read? Also, you better stop being rude. I don't care about stuff like that, but FANDOM is really strict with stuff like that.
 
Lorenzo, calm down.

@Ricsi

She doesn't open with Perfume Femur. She spams her arrows and uses Pistol Kiss. If Kakashi gets touched, he's done for.

But you're right. He takes this more times than he doesn't.

Kakashi 7/10 FRA.
 
Just pointing that if Kakashi get's touched in one hand with the Perfume Femur after parrying the attack, he'll lost the hand which means no hands signals.
 
Yeah, and if Hancock touches Kakashi's head he's done for as well.

As seen here
BoaHancockPerfumeFemur
. That's why Kakashi won't win here with ease even with his vast knowledge and skill. Because if he loss the capability to see, hear and smell with the petrification effecting his head the match is over with.
 
Ignoring me, basically.

Kakashi doesn't open with Genjutsu, ever. Show me one instance where he OPENED with Genjutsu (He's only used it against Sakura as a troll, and against Boruto--both cases being training, or a test). It's not his specialty, and in about 95% of his encounters, he has not once used it in live combat.

Now here's the thing, he'll go up against Hancock with the initial intention to subdue or kill her if necessary. The second he lays his eyes on her, he will begin feeling lust. This was also true for the veteran Vice Admiral Momonga, who was stated to have prior knowledge of her DF, and resorted to stabbing his hand in order to distract himself from his lustful desires. Kakashi has no such knowledge and will fight handicapped from the start, and his AP isn't high enough to deal serious damage on her, even if he somehow lands a Raikiri due to a mistake Hancock could possibly make. Also, going into melee range against Hancock would be suicide given, if they trade hits, Kakashi is going to crumble, even if he manages to wound Hancock (if he can will himself to)

Meanwhile, Hancock has several one-hit abilities that WILL work given Kakashi's obvious innate lustful desires (You know, from reading erotic novels and pulling several habits from Jiraya himself), Mero-Mero Mellow will affect him if it touches. Slave Arrow will one-shot, Pistol Kiss is a ranged option, but wont kill him in one hit obviously, Perfume Femur (assume they come melee range) will possibly one-shot depending where he is struck, but will certainly cripple him. And again, people here are ignoring Hancock's ability to use Haki, even if her application level is not confirmed--she still has access to all 3 and has used them for years and has knowledge on each power.

In the early fight, Kakashi will either die or find a way to evade Hancock. There's no way he will have an advantage there. If he lasts longer through substitution or other means, in order to make a more stealthy approach, Hancock will know his location, and he will be unaware of this, and once he gets close, chances are she lands a kick to the face before he has time to properly react, or they trade blows. If the fight somehow manages to get more developed after this, yes--he'll most likely use Genjutsu as a last ditch effort (Unless Salome is there and unaffected and can protect Hancock--even wake her up), turning the advantage over to himself, meaning he'd be more likely to win in the late game (given we know nothing about Hancock in a serious engagement).

Hancock takes a massive majority in any case.
 
Woah woah first of all Kakashi doesn't even use chidori anymore; he uses purple lightning which is a mid range to long range attack and is his most versatile attack

This is Hokage Kakashi. We go off what is shown in character since this is his only showing besides Light novel. Kakashi has to take Boruto serious. He may have used genjutsu once during Naruto part 1 but that was sharingan Kakashi. It doesn't apply to Hokage Kakashi who has a different fighting style. If he used genjutsu in the fight it's in his move set during battle. He used it before he used his Earth style and water style jutsu. Kakashi has switched up his style some.

Let's not forget Kakashi has the speed advantage here as well with shunshin. Also knowing Kakashis position could be a huge downfall if he is hiding because Kakashi is known for using shadow clones and hiding in the ground the fool his enemies.

And I'm highly doubting her landing a kick to Kakashis face who is a master at taijutsu and has way more experience at close combat as well as his speed advantage again.Bold text
 
the only chance kakashi has here is his versatility, but that limits all his direct attacks; he cant read moves or predit anything, he might actually be in ending stick here, since she is the haki user here. and his genjutsu are distractions at most.
 
1. Kakashi typically opens with Kagebunshin, while he himself watches or preps from afar.

2. Kakashi, if he notices a change in his mindset from whatever his opponent did, he'd use a Kai, or stab himself it that doesn't work as that's pretty much numero dos on what to do under a genjutsu.

3. He shoots Shiden (Purple Lightning) from a distance, at an omnidirectional wave, or simply by stabbing people with it. It's like a more versatile Raikiri without the drawbacks.

4. He does not like to tank anything ever, if he could help it.

5. Shunshin and log swaps. Classic.

I'm of the opinion that Kakashi takes it more often than not.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The main guy who gave reasonkngs for her vote is now voting for Kakashi...
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Ignoring the fact that I stated that Boa has wincon. If the guy feels convinced about my arguments he votes for Boa. Is quite simple.

Cin is right. Changing my vote again (I know, I know)

@Gemmysaur

1- Observation Haki doesn't make distinctions between clones and the real deal. She can feel Kakashi's presence. In any case if for some reason she can't feel the clones that means she'd know where the real Kakashi is. And if she scales to Sandersonia that means she has precognition, while this Kakashi doesn't.

2- Stabbing himself doesn't protect him from Perfume Femur and Slave Arrow (the former petrificates robots and the latter cannonballs). In fact stabbing himself slows him for a second, second that Hancock will exploit to increase the pressure. Kakashi can't let any attack hit him and considering the range and the spam Hancock does this isn't easy.

3- Does he spam this? Chakra's reserves are a thing.

5- Precog helps to counter that. That's why OP's characters can react to LS attacks.

Kakashi and Hancock should be comparable in experience and skill (discounting the enemies both have faced). Hancock was born in an island where every women is trained in fights and was in the Kuja's ship from a very short age. It's important to note that only capable warriors are able to be part of the Kuja's pirates and Hancock and her sisters were there as children.

She's a trained martial artist with a decade or even more experience (discounting the time when she was a slave). Kakashi has more experience, but it's not like she's completely outclassed here.

In the stamina game they should be comparable but considering the normal standards for OP I think Boa has this. And Kakashi uses chakra for everything while Boa doesn't have any kind of energy source that she needs to use her powers. She doesn't suffer stamina taxing unlike Kakashi.
 
@gemmysaur, i think he literally only used bushins once as his first move, but ok lol as for another thing that i forgot about, yeah, kakashi is famous for having barely above the usual chakra lvls. he wont spam jutsu, ever, much less the ones that are powerful enough to one shot her, but have a high chakra tax. but he is much, much, much more expirienced, smarter, and skilled than her. and yet, i cant see him winning this for some reason. i like him a lot, but i just cant. he loses every time
 
Let's not forget the OP (for some reason) gave Boa a day of prep. She'll have time to learn about shinobi capabilities to a rudimentary extent, at the very least. That tips the scale even further to her advantage.

A clone is useless in distracting Hancock. She'll still know where Kakashi is due to Extrasensory perception granted by Kenbunshoku haki (Literally every user has this ability. Every single one who uses Kenbunshoku).

Kakashi has a lot more showings for tactical ability than Hancock, and while the argument can be made that he is certainly above her in experience and tactical ability, don't discredit Hancock. She's only been on-panel for short periods, and we've never seen her at work.
 
1. Featwise, Byakugan and Sharingan both have difficulty telling Kagebunshin apart from the original. Rinnegan can't even tell rubble clones from real rubble. Also, by nature of the technique, the clones are naturally near-indistinguishable from the user, as is the case with the so many times it has been used. Kakashi has fought enough people with precog to make a reasonable assumption that his opponent now does too, but I concede to the precog advantage.

2. I was referring to the whole "like what you see" aspect of her powers, not the stoning. Nonetheless, he opens with clones anyhow, and seeing his clone turn to stone or succumb to the seduction thing is enough to have him keep her at an arms length.

3. He uses it as is needed, but he does dial it down if he doesn't need the dakka. He held it back against Boruto and company, else, he could've killed them. That said, he was still rather surprised himself that he still hurt them a tad much. The big dakka however, is a one and done, but is powerful as it pulled in rain clouds afterwards.

5. What does her precog tell her? That what she is gonna hit is a fake, or does it include where the faker will pop up next? What is its limits? Eyesight? Kakashi can get around that with clones and walls. Thoughts?

Training and experience are vastly different.They can train among themselves but that does not grant them the knowledge of vastly different fighting styles their trainers themselves don't know. But yeah, Kakashi has more experience, but they should have roughly comparable training, if only because Kakashi let himself go between being an Anbu and being an instructor to Team 7.

Regarding Kakashi's stamina. Sure he has stamina issues, but that's not because his reserves are low or even average, but rather, his Sharingan draining him for not having a compatible body to use it, and his favored jutsu are high-powered. That said, he did these while Sharingan is active in the war:

* Clone + lightning cable again.

* Again.

So yeah, he's not lacking stamina this time around without Sharingan draining him.

Oh, and her prep is... for what, exactly? She doesn't exactly have anything on her side to know the workings of shinobi from Naruto.
 
i only want to adress two thing, gemmy; one is that he only started out a battle with clones ONCE, so this is not necessarily the case here. secondly, his chidori spaming in the war maybe the cause of two different things- first and foremost, he was constantly getting healed and replenished after his fights. he was pretty much in peak condition when he went to help out naruto. the other thing is that a chidori is a set jutsu, just like the rasengan. once they are made, they dont actually require a constant amount of chakra to keep fuiling them. thats the case for the rasengan anyways, at least.
 
1- Byakugan and Sharingan are both sight-based techniques. Observation isn't. It feels the presence and strength of every living being in the surroundings and that's the basic application. No matter if she can't tell which one is the real, she'll feel them coming in every direction.

2- If she kicks the clone, said clone will dissapear before being petrified unless Kakashi has improven the resistance of his clones and I remember Naruto achieving that.

3- I'd like to know where Kakashi's scaling comes from. Hancock scales above 554MT from a character that did said feat with moderate effort.

5- Observation is more sense-based considering the user feels everything. Precognition works as Sharingan does but not sight-based. Said precog allows the user to avoid incoming damage and gives time to react to it, even if those attacks are far superior in speed.

Wait, wasn't Kakashi's stamina restored by Naruto's chakra like a few times during the war?

Hancock scales massively above characters who can fight for 12 hours (and said characters are total fodder), and likely to Ace who fought Jinbei for five days straight.
 
It really doesn't matter much that she feels them coming. The biggest advantage gained is that Kakashi finds out more about what she can do.

If she kicks the clone and connects, clones have shown being able to battle unless it's a good blow and not just making contact, meaning defending is entirely possible and it should still be petrified.

And no, he was only recovered at the point Gemmy mentions. Unlike a lot of other people, he wasn't there to get a chakra cloak boost because, funnily enough, he was in Obito's dimension stitching a hole up. And funny detail, he started his battle with Obito with Genjutsu despite clashing with a skilled Sharingan User.

If Kakashi thinks it necessary, Genjutsu is totally a go.
 
We have been mostly in discussion so I haven't a clue. I'd have to check later when I am not sleepy.

But mine right now goes to Kakashi. With his intellect and tactics, arriving at the decision of using Genjutsu before he suffers any bad damage seems more likely to me.
 
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