Kakashi Hatake VS Boa Hancock

[Ricsi-viragosi]

what did jiraya say? i read the manga one too many times to not know. genjutsu especifically works by "reworking" a person's inner chakra network. no chakra network means that no genjutsu working either. how is that hard to understand? oh, as for the crt, i might as well, as its ridiculous.

He did say that. Did you not read the retcon part?

The amount of statements that are still applicable to Naruto is... small.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'd like to see regular Genjutsu working on animals because I don't remember anything like that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I wil need time to get that.

Regardless, that doesn't matter particularly for this fight.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah it does. Your argument relies on Kakashi putting Hancock under a Genjutsu.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I mean, by saying the "reworking the chakra in the head" you are pretty much saying Genjutsu will not work on anything that doesn't have a similar enough inner energy they use for abilities.

So you either CRT that or forget it, because that'd affect a LOT what Genjutsu can work against.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

Yeah it does. Your argument relies on Kakashi putting Hancock under a Genjutsu.

thanks

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It does not matter here.

Unless you are arguing she has no sentience and cells, she will still have yin and yang like any human being in Naruto.

And genjutsu does work on normal people, and I doubt that they are always making chakra that can be bent.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i made said crt btw. u can go check

 

[The_Calaca]

Isn't chakra the basic energy that everybody has anyway?

I'm still thinking that you need scans to support your claims. As for Genjutsu effecting animals and 'normal people who doesn't have chakra'.

That's why I need to reread Naruto, god damn it.

And no, I'm not arguing that she has no sentience and cells. I'm arguing that w/o verse equalization you can't prove effectiveness on Genjutsu w/o proof. Don't you know that Haki nor DF can be equalized with that kind of energy such as Chakra, Ki or Reiatsu?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

u dont need to reread naruto. belive me, i know what im talking about. i read that manga way too much lol

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm planning to do it anyway. It's like a fight with myself because I never watched it in its entirely and I feel bad because that's what made me a weeaboo in the first place.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It isn't. Chakra is the combination of spiritual (It's mind energy, nothing to do with souls) energy (Otherwise called yin) and physical (Litirally drawn from every cell) energy (Or Yang). Ninja have to specifically weave chakra to use for jutsu.


As for affecting normal humans, this was done at least wice, give me a sec.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

u dont need to reread naruto. belive me, i know what im talking about. i read that manga way too much lol

And yet you didn't even remember Kakashi has Genjutsu without his sharingan?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If the implication is of normal people not having chakra and that being possible proof, Itachi did still Genjustu a nomal woman to be infatuated with Jiraiya to distract him away from Naruto.

Edit: Kakashi instead of Itachi. Jesus heck what did I eat before passing out.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

considering that he only actually did it with proof once, and this was done in the anime that i dont watch, then yes, i dont remember hahaha

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

"I read that manga too much"

It happened in the manga, not the anime. In the anime Kakashi randomly makes storms to scare kids.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There you go. The woman Itachi mindcontrolled and put asleep, the whole tournament thing, and the scientist got controlled as well.

 

[The_Calaca]

Would you mind giving me proof that the Yin and Yang are ninja's exclusive? Because what that scan and your explanation told me is that everybody has that energy but not everybody has control over it.

Dragon Ball's Ki is inside everybody but not everybody knows how to control it or even its very existence. The number of existent ninjas in Naruto's world says that anybody can become a ninja if he knows how to control the Chakra.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

thats what i was talking about in the first place lol wtf. and like i said, his genjutsu wont help at all with boa, since they are trash compared to dojutsu genjutsu. he can only make her see a thing or two, IF *humoungous IF* it works on her, which it wont

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@calace im pretty sure he knows that, but he wants kakashi to win some way or another.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Would you mind giving me proof that the Yin and Yang are ninja's exclusive? Because what that scan and your explanation told me is that everybody has that energy but not everybody has control over it.
Dragon Ball's Ki is inside everybody but not everybody knows how to control it or even its very existence. The number of existent ninjas in Naruto's world says that anybody can become a ninja if he knows how to control the Chakra.

I litirally said everyone has Yin and Yang. Chakra is ninja esclusive, needing to be made by combining Yin and Yang.

But here, they plain say that he isn't preparing chakra. Which means that people wouldn't naturally have it unless they made it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@calace im pretty sure he knows that, but he wants kakashi to win some way or another.

Can you not Appeal to motive please?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

thats what i was talking about in the first place lol wtf. and like i said, his genjutsu wont help at all with boa, since they are trash compared to dojutsu genjutsu. he can only make her see a thing or two, IF *humoungous IF* it works on her, which it wont

HGe can litirally knock her out with it and become unable to see him. How the hell would that not be usefull?

He litirally needs one-strike and she's dead.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm still skeptical about that. But nothing changes my argument, so I don't care. I'm still voting for Hancock since my argument it's still valid.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

ok then imma a big gun out- how would the infinete tsukuyomi work on people if they dotn have chakra? the tree that took those people was looking for beings with chakra, as so it could give it back to kaguya. and even so, the tsukuyomi is genjutsu that works on every living human, meaning that they all chakra.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@calace im pretty sure he knows that, but he wants kakashi to win some way or another.

Can you not Appeal to motive please?

and im not appealing to anything, because i have faith that u know this already, and seem to keep denying it for some reason.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What?

That is based on the assumption that it needs chakra to work, and in Itachi's nmovel (Page 30) they plain say that stuff like that doesn't.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

and im not appealing to anything, because i have faith that u know this already, and seem to keep denying it for some reason.

No, that is a litirral apeal to motive at it's finest. It could be used as an exemple for it.

Not that "Argument from belief" is any better.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

so u wanna rely on a novel that contradicts everything the anime is based on? wow bro. good job. the anime is hella consistant with this. u cant just take/use a secondary canon that contradicts everything just to win an arguement

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How does the noval contradict everything? The only thing it contradicts would be one statement, and that's if you decide that Jiraiya is not talking about controlling your own chakra that you put into the target and not the other way around.

Animals like cats have been affected, civilians who obviously werent making (or "kneading", if you want to use the word tobirama used) were also affected, and the amount of retcons in Naruto makes the idea that what Jiraiya said just got ditched.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

so u wanna rely on a novel that contradicts everything the anime is based on? wow bro. good job. the anime is hella consistant with this. u cant just take/use a secondary canon that contradicts everything just to win an arguement

The anime does not remotely matter.

There is a ******* robot that got genjutsu'd in it. (Why is there a robot in Naruto..., better than Condor I guess)

The manga wasn't exactly consitent with it, no. Much like how nothing stayed consistent.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm still skeptical about that. But nothing changes my argument, so I don't care. I'm still voting for Hancock since my argument it's still valid.

It does change tough...

Kakashi can just mindhax her and she can't really do much about that, and he has speed amps and substitution to dodge everything she's got.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

look, chakra exists in all living beings on earth. heck, chakra can even be put into inanimate objects. we know that animals chakra, otherwise summons wouldnt be a thing. even cats and dogs have chakra, enough to make them into jonin lvl ninja even. now, the statement being put into the here contradicts all i just said above. how about that then? as for jiraya's deal- did u find that in the anime or manga? belive me, anime has about 100 or more contradictions to it (the naruto wiki has a page dedicated to it. literally)

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Your point literally doesn't say anything, Lorenzo. Ricsi showed a direct scan of being said that chakra needs to be moulded, it isn't just "there" in everything unless you mean Nature Chakra, which is different from personal chakra.

Also, are you equating special summon animals like toads that can talk and use ninjutsu to a normal cat from wherever? What?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No it doesn't.

Did you actually read the manga?

Firstly, I just showed you above that chakra needs to be consciously made and controlled.

Secondly, summoned animals use nature energy. I understand that you might have missed it, it's not like the whole reason they hurt Obito was because he couldn't null a summons jutsu, which led to the discovery of hsis weakness.

Thridly, it was Ashura who first shared chakra, after which the sage of six paths continued to do that. Before that chakra didn't exist for humans, only the otsotsuki clan.


Every living being has yin and yang. That is not chakra.

 

[AstralKing7]

Even then roads and slugs and snakes all use natural energy/chakra only

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also, you realize that summons were sentient before Ashura was even born right? You know, the guy who inspired Hagoromo into decide that giving humanity superpowers was a good decision?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Even then roads and slugs and snakes all use natural energy/chakra only

Don't know why but that reminded me of the cu(Put a sapace here because can't say bad words in FANDOM's domain)nty Hinata from road to ninja.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i cant cuss or call yall names, but believe, i hate ignorance https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra go to overview

this is for genjutsu https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu go to overview again

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay, does Kakashi lead with Genjutsu in a serious fight? Because putting Boruto under a Genjutsu seems more like plot justified instead of an actual combat mindset.