Kai the Collector vs Adam Taurus (8B Round 21 Redux)

[Nico-v11]

A departure in common sense concerning a weapon's general durability yes but the common sense concerning a weapon's durability in relation to the user should remain.

If the user is superhuman in nature then the weapon should scale in relation to how it would normally scale in the real world. There's no reason as to why not.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why?

Again, why is that so?

 

[Nico-v11]

Because that's how weapons normally work. Blake blocks life threatening attacks constantly with her weapon. If said attacks are life threatening then they should be threatening to the weapon to where the weapon should have broken long before.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

But we've established that there is plausible doubt in the idea that weapons work "normally" in this universe. So repeating the last line of reasoning no longer holds up.

 

[Nico-v11]

I already explained that she blocks life threatening attacks constantly. A life threatening attack against her (and subsequently scaling her durability to the weapon) would mean that the weapon is equally in danger of breaking, which it never is.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Blocking attacks preserves Aura, of course they will get blocked. Why would anyone try to fight a war of attrition when they can just not lose their magic forcefield by blocking.

Also I am confused about something. What evidence is their to say that the 18 tons scales to their normal dura without the Aura? The fact that they use weapons (force multipliers) and can easily go through each other when Aura is down (Adam vs Blake and Yang) means we cant even apply Newton's 3rd law.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's you being ignorant of the fact that her weapons are made of GLASS which is her semblance. Raven's weapon being disposable dust blades.

Cool your head off, and no, they are Obsidian

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in that Nico meant not knowing rather than you yourself being stupid. Let's be civil folks, friendly match and all that.

 

[Nico-v11]

Yeah I meant it in the not knowing way sorry if it came off differently.

Also yeah just remembered that in the credits they do say they are obsidian. Regardless though those are weapons that she creates.

The topic of whether they're durability scales to them when aura is off has been discussed to death. Mercury's head would have been blown off by Yang's semblance fueled shotgun shell if his durability didn't scale and Yang herself shredded by being bitten in the stomach by an Uraa Major, both cases without aura (well more Yang losing her aura then being thrown while still being bitten and creating a crater on the ground).

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

A weapon doesn't need to be all scratched up to be damaged. Usually the metal is warped and strained internally (slightly visible to the outside but we have no stupidly close close-ups of her weapon) before snapping, which is exactly what happens to Blake's weapon.

Like any way you spin this Adam didn't "one-shot Blake's weapon" and even if he did you'd have to assume her weapon is less durable than her aura since Adam attacked Yang's semblance with his own a stupidly large amount of times in that fight, and Yang isn't in the one-shot range above Blake.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yang's arm is more durable than the rest of her body, Blake's weapon scales to her own durability. Adam oneshot her weapon and can oneshot her in turn with his semblance

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yang's arm is more durable than the rest of her body, Blake's weapon scales to her own durability. Adam oneshot her weapon and can oneshot her in turn with his semblance

Yang doesn't block every attack with her arm, and when she does she has her own semblance active. IDK where you get the idea that it's more durable than the rest of her body from when she has her aura over it. He didn't oneshot Blake's weapon. If he did, previously mentioned contradictions means you have to say it isn't as durable as her or you're selectively contradicting yourself.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yang never blocks his semblance attacks with anything other than her arm in that fight, go back and watch it. Its more durable because it has feats of being more durable. He DID oneshot Blake's weapon because he did it with his SEMBLANCE. Its not contradictory in any way. If its not durable enough to withstand Blake's physical AP then it severely violates Newton's Third Law.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yang never blocks his semblance attacks with anything other than her arm in that fight, go back and watch it. Its more durable because it has feats of being more durable. He DID oneshot Blake's weapon because he did it with his SEMBLANCE. Its not contradictory in any way. If its not durable enough to withstand Blake's physical AP then it severely violates Newton's Third Law.

Yes she does (First is with her other arm, second is a direct hit to the torso).

Also Yang's aura blocks attacks, not her gauntlet. It isn't more durable because Yang's aura isn't shattered when she does block hits with it, so your "feats" and meaningless as that's Yang's aura. Basic aura mechanics and whatnot.

He didn't oneshot Blake's weapon. As I've mentioned previously metal doesn't have to be scratched and tattered before it breaks; warping the metal through consecutive concussive force can cause it to break even if the damage isn't visible. Them thar's physics.

You can feel free to argue he did oneshot it though; if that's the case it has less durability than Yang or Blake herself.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because Adam's Semblance damages through aura

He did oneshot Blake's weapon. Everything up until his semblance was blocked by her aura. Them thar's canon verse mechanics that youre conveniently ignoring.

I guess the whole verse needs a downgrade because a guy with a massive AP amp and the ability to cut through aura oneshot them through their aura.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Because Adam's Semblance damages through aura

Ah shit, here we go again.

Does this help?

"Every hit can drop it, some hits can break it, just so happens that Adam's attack was so badass that in one hit it managed to break it and do damage all at once."
Glad we've now debunked both the 'Adam bypasses aura' and 'needs x damage to damage Aura' simultaneously.

He did oneshot Blake's weapon. Everything up until his semblance was blocked by her aura. Them thar's canon verse mechanics that youre conveniently ignoring.

He doesn't break through aura, and since he doesn't bypass it, that point is moot.

I guess the whole verse needs a downgrade because a guy with a massive AP amp and the ability to cut through aura oneshot them through their aura.

I've already explained three times now how you can't have Adam not even interact with Aura and then suddenly oneshot through Aura, and I hope I don't have to explain again.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He doesnt have to break it because his semblance allows him to bypass it entirely. ONLY his semblance, his normal strikes do not cut through aura.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

He doesnt have to break it because his semblance allows him to bypass it entirely. ONLY his semblance, his normal strikes do not cut through aura.

I just posted a link and quote to the authors of the verse disagreeing with you there. Restating your argument isn't doing anything but drawing our discussion out.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Unfortunately what they said is wrong. If his strikes did break their aura then how did their aura break a second time later in the fight?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Please Dargoo, we all know the author's aren't a reliable source. They aren't good with memory related things.

Anyhow, Dargoo seems to be making more sense, but I'll linger in the background for now.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Unfortunately what they said is wrong. If his strikes did break their aura then how did their aura break a second time later in the fight?

If his attacks bypass aura entirely, why is their aura breaking in the first place? If his attacks one-shot Volume 6 characters' aura, why isn't Yang cleaved in two when he hits her right in the torso?

"What they said is wrong"

I think the writers of RWBY have more of a standing in explaining Adam's powers than you, especially given the lack of any meaningful contradiction.

Meanwhile you're arguing two things which outright contradict each other.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That moment when the creators of a show are wrong and you are right

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Please Dargoo, we all know the author's aren't a reliable source. They aren't good with memory related things.

Sure, I'll bite. Let's say the authors of RWBY don't even know what they're writing.

My other points still stand. The fact that the authors agree with me is essentially a cherry on the top.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo Because not every single one of his attacks bypass aura, only his amped attacks, his regular attacks do not bypass aura, ive been saying this the whole time. Please for the love of god listen to what im saying for once.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo Because not every single one of his attacks bypass aura, only his amped attacks, his regular attacks do not bypass aura, ive been saying this the whole time.

Except his amped attacks hit Yang smack in the chest and she isn't turned into Yangs, plural. I'm talking about his semblance, as are the authors, not his regular attacks.

Please for the love of god listen to what im saying for once.

That was uncalled for.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No it didnt, it hit her in the arm because she blocked it.

No it was entirely called for, im tired of being ignored and being told that im saying things that im not.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, "uncalled for" seems a bit extreme, it's not like he's offending you (other than saying that you're wrong, but that's not an offense).

Still, actual proof not contradicted by the author's is needed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ricsi Amped Adam cut through Yang's and Blake's aura during the fall of beacon without their aura going down entirely, and in the fight with Yang and Blake in volume 6 he cut through both of their aura only for their aura to visibly go down later in the fight.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Ricsi Amped Adam cut through Yang's and Blake's aura during the fall of beacon without their aura going down entirely, and in the fight with Yang and Blake in volume 6 he cut through both of their aura only for their aura to visibly go down later in the fight.

"Adam cut through a High 8-C character, certainly he should do it just as easily to 8-B characters who tank direct hits from him with their aura"

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And what about the exemples given by Dargoo? Because honestly Beacon was for drammatical porpuses, and the rest could very well be just inconsistencies.

No matter how you spin it, a contradiction is in there regardless, and I think we assume the option that doesn't give a never stated power (let alone one literally stated to not be a thing).

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ricsi Which examples? Because Dargoo is making so many contradictory and nonsensical arguments that its honestly hard to believe he's not trolling at this point

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Except his amped attacks hit Yang smack in the chest and she isn't turned into Yangs, plural. I'm talking about his semblance, as are the authors, not his regular attacks.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yang was never hit in the chest by Adam's amped attack, she blocked it with her arm which is shown to be much more durable than the rest of her body. If you like i can post the entire fight so you guys can see for yourselves.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://youtu.be/C7zV5_P9q7w?t

Here. Watch for yourselves and you guys decide who is right here.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

I looked at the fight and to be honest that blast hit a lot more of Yang than just her arms. Simply by size alone, she could not have blocked that whole thing.

https://youtu.be/C7zV5_P9q7w?t=316

 

[Wokistan]

So should I close the other bracket round for now, or are these just gonna go concurrently?

 

[Nico-v11]

You guys do know that not all of Adam's attacks would one shot right? I even said that way above. He CAN but that doesn't mean every time.

@Weekly

No Adam doesn't bypass aura....at all. This is another one of those things that people were theorizing but that's it. It was never confirmed in the show and disproven by the writers. When Blake described Adam's semblance she would have said it can get through aura to Yang.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You guys do know that not all of Adam's attacks would one shot right? I even said that way above. He CAN but that doesn't mean every time.

The argument is that "Adam's semblance one-shots". No one is arguing a regular sword strike from him will take out Kai instantly.

And no, I don't think he can oneshot Kai as per everything I said on the thread so far.

@Ricsi Which examples? Because Dargoo is making so many contradictory and nonsensical arguments that its honestly hard to believe he's not trolling at this point

Could you explain what exactly about my point is contradictory? I at least gave the benefit of explaining what I thought about your points that was self-contradictory instead of just throwing around "your arguments are nonsensical and you're probably trolling".

Oh yeah, you're also accusing me of trolling. We're debating two POVs on a fictional character, calm down.

Yang was never hit in the chest by Adam's amped attack

Nah.

Her arms are so far apart from where Adam is attacking she's practically T-Posing.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's because she was asserting her dominance over the blade you knob

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That's because she was asserting her dominance over the bullet you knob

LMAO xD hahahahaha