Kaguya’s Big Black Balls Solo Dbz Part 1/3

[sageof8paths]

Intro:
It was advised that this thread that it be split into 3 threads for more efficient arguing.

The current interpretation of Kaguya’s ETSO (Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb) in relation to its size and scale is flawed when considering the statements and narrative in the series.

These series of threads aims to clarify these misunderstandings. Part one focuses on issues with the accepted calculation of Kaguya’s dimensions.

Section 1: Problems with the Current Calculation

It has been established that Kaguya’s planet experiences day and night cycles, implying it revolves around a sun, which requires space for the revolution around sun within the dimension.

The current calc uses the distance from Earth to the sun as the radius of the ETSO.

However, this approach is incorrect because the ETSO expands omnidirectionally from the planet outward, not specifically towards the sun.

For the calc to be valid, the sun would need to be at the center of the ETSO, but we know this is false since the orb grows from the planet itself.

Therefore, the correct radius should be twice the distance between the planet and the sun, as the space for the revolution around the sun should be the radius of the Etso

Here is an image explaining what I mean:


This these would be the updated values for the etso:

Distance from earth to sun: 149.2 million km

Etso radius≈ 300 million km (since the etso was going to destroy the sun as well, but just the distance between it and earth)

Volume= 4/3(pie)(r)^3
Volume= 1.13x10^26 km^3
Volume in m^3 =1.13x 10^35 m^3

Original calc Multiplier :
(1.13e+35)(1.3444672e+14)
Etso= 1.5192479e+49 or Solar System level

Part two will go over the timeframe of the attack because 15 years is utter nonsense

Edit:
Agree: Arc7kuroi, Uchihaslayer, Ghostimuscrime, Medeus, Davidttpm

Neutral:

Disagree: hellothere

 

[HelloThere1089]

I see the logic actually. But at the end of the day, the orb's center can just shift towards the center of the dimension to accomodate until the orb's size becomes larger than the dimension, causing it to be destroyed.

 

[sageof8paths]

To do this u would need to prove that the planet is at the edge of the dimension which nothing indicates such.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

yeah I think this is fine, given the etso as we accept it would eventually become far greater than the planet, there’s no real reason to assuming it’s always going to stay locked on the planet as it’s central point. And as we accept it currently the dimension would at least need to occupy ~2 AU in diameter to facilitate an earth like planet orbiting a sun like star.

Furthermore, we no longer use the cube square law destroying the sun, so that actually matters now with the volume ratio.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm not really opposed to this. It makes sense imo.

 

[HelloThere1089]

To do this u would need to prove that the planet is at the edge of the dimension which nothing indicates such.

Nothing suggests that the ETSO can't change its location either tho. So wouldn't a lowball interpretation simply be safer to assume? I'm not necessarily against this either. Just want to know the rationale.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nothing suggests that the ETSO can't change its location either tho. So wouldn't a lowball interpretation simply be safer to assume? I'm not necessarily against this either. Just want to know the rationale.

You would need to provide good reasoning for why it would arbitrarily change its position rather than just equivocate. Furthermore, the dimension itself still HAS to be 2AU in diameter to facilitate the planet orbiting around the sun. And the etso is expanding to destroy the dimension not just the celestial bodies

 

[sageof8paths]

Nothing suggests that the ETSO can't change its location either tho. So wouldn't a lowball interpretation simply be safer to assume? I'm not necessarily against this either. Just want to know the rationale.

Why would it change location?

 

[HelloThere1089]

You would need to provide good reasoning for why it would arbitrarily change its position rather than just equivocate. Furthermore, the dimension itself still HAS to be 2AU in diameter to facilitate the planet orbiting around the sun. And the etso is expanding to destroy the dimension not just the celestial bodies

I'm not arguing that the dimension can't be 2 AU in diameter since I'm the one that pointed it out in David's calc. But according to this calc the dimension will have a diameter of 4 AU. Which is an 8x multiplier to the currently accepted value. Which is why I'm asking for more clarification.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm not arguing that the dimension can't be 2 AU in diameter since I'm the one that pointed it out in David's calc. But according to this calc the dimension will have a diameter of 4 AU. Which is an 8x multiplier to the currently accepted value. Which is why I'm asking for more clarification.

I guess if you wanted to lowball it yeah you can say it only needs to get to 2AU, but I think what Sage is saying is that we have no reason to believe the ETSO moves rather than just expands, thus to encompass the entire dimension it’d need a radius of 2AU.

 

[sageof8paths]

I guess if you wanted to lowball it yeah you can say it only needs to get to 2AU, but I think what Sage is saying is that we have no reason to believe the ETSO moves rather than just expands, thus to encompass the entire dimension it’d need a radius of 2AU.

Yeah u got it right

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Having seen a better explanation than before I fully agree with this change


Since we have multiple stars in momoshiki's dimension it would make sense for the dimension to not be capped at whats shown ONLY so ETSO expanding past the earth to sun's distances should be perfectly fine

 

[HelloThere1089]

I guess if you wanted to lowball it yeah you can say it only needs to get to 2AU, but I think what Sage is saying is that we have no reason to believe the ETSO moves rather than just expands, thus to encompass the entire dimension it’d need a radius of 2AU.

I'm genuinely confused. The calc is proposing that the ETSO doesn't move at all from the position it was created in. Does that mean that it's coordinates wrt the center of the dimension remain unchanged? Cuz in that case it would be immediately flinged out of the planet's atmosphere which clearly didn't happen.

Which means the ETSO was revolving the star along with the planet. Because of that reason I'm certain that the ETSO can move without any problem and acts like a celestial object like the moon for example. This also means that as it grows larger and approaches a mass equal to the planet, the ETSO will eventually collide with the star before reaching the radius of 1 AU. After which it will omnidirectionally expand from the star's current position in the graphic provided.

I'm not sure if I was able to explain my confusion well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Makes sense to me.

 

[HelloThere1089]

On second thought I completely disagree with this calc. It makes no sense and it goes against my limited knowledge. So until I see a rebuttal to my point above, just put me in disagree.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Kaguya's what

 

[sageof8paths]

I'm genuinely confused. The calc is proposing that the ETSO doesn't move at all from the position it was created in.

Because no one provided evidence that it moved

Does that mean that its coordinates wrt the center of the dimension remain unchanged? Cuz in that case it would be immediately flinged out of the planet's atmosphere which clearly didn't happen.

The etso only lasts a few pages before it crumbles, nothing implies this wouldn’t have happed eventually. You’d have to bring in factors like time and speed to why prove such didn’t happen on screen.

Which means the ETSO was revolving the star along with the planet. Because of that reason I'm certain that the ETSO can move without any problem and acts like a celestial object like the moon for example. This also means that as it grows larger and approaches a mass equal to the planet, the ETSO will eventually collide with the star before reaching the radius of 1 AU. After which it will omnidirectionally expand from the star's current position in the graphic provided.

It literally starts out as a floating orb the size of countries, it by definition defies gravity. u would need to prove it would eventually reach the sun.

I'm not sure if I was able to explain my confusion well.

 

[Ar1216789]

so a wall level upgrade?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Because no one provided evidence that it moved

I did.

The etso only lasts a few pages before it crumbles, nothing implies this wouldn’t have happed eventually. You’d have to bring in factors like time and speed to why prove such didn’t happen on screen.

The earth revolves around the sun at the speed of around 30 Kmps. This should be enough to fling the ETSO while it was on screen.

It literally starts out as a floating orb the size of countries, it by definition defies gravity. u would need to prove it would eventually reach the sun.

It doesn't. It stayed on the planet which means its coordinates wrt the dimension aren't stationary. It should follow the usual behavior of a random celestial object of its size. I put this in Universe sandbox and the ETSO as it grows larger will actually move farther away from the star. It's too much of a hassle to calculate how far it will go by the time it engulfs the star. But it definitely won't stay at the planet's current orbit like your calc suggests. So if we use your logic that the ETSO will keep expanding without being constrained by the dimension, then you'd need to have a more accurate calc.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It should follow the usual behavior of a random celestial object of its size

since when does a universe recreation orb have mass
it makes no sense for antimatter like tso to be bound by the effects of the dimension it is trying to erase

 

[HelloThere1089]

since when does a universe recreation orb have mass
it makes no sense for antimatter like tso to be bound by the effects of the dimension it is trying to erase

Antimatter? Am I missing some statements? When was this stated.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Antimatter? Am I missing some statements? When was this stated.

antimatter in a sense that its supposed to destroy everything not the one you're thinking about

 

[HelloThere1089]

antimatter in a sense that its supposed to destroy everything not the one you're thinking about

Then it still has no reason to not act like it has mass. The TSO's on Naruto's back certainly acted like they had mass.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Then it still has no reason to not act like it has mass. The TSO's on Naruto's back certainly acted like they had mass.

the etso descriptions 'acted' as though a whole universe was being recreated but thats not enough evidence for us to consider
Until there's solid evidence backing your claim it's basically headcanon

 

[sageof8paths]

I did.

U did not

The earth revolves around the sun at the speed of around 30 Kmps. This should be enough to fling the ETSO while it was on screen.

No it’s not. The earths diameter is 12700 km wide. It’s take more than 5 minutes it to be flung away from earth.

Guess what? The Tso doesn’t last that long. After the Tso is released, there follows a long sequence in slow motion and Kaguya is quickly sealed. Even if we low ball and say these characters are moving at lightning speeds, the planet would have barely even moved.

It doesn't. It stayed on the planet which means its coordinates wrt the dimension aren't stationary. It should follow the usual behavior of a random celestial object of its size.

But we know it doesn’t. A celestial object of that size would instantly have disintegrates and crashed towards earth from being that close in which it only does that when Kaguya is sealed.



Proving that it was not affected by the planets gravity and was being sustained by its Kaguya and ignoring gravity

I put this in Universe sandbox and the ETSO as it grows larger will actually move farther away from the star. It's too much of a hassle to calculate how far it will go by the time it engulfs the star. But it definitely won't stay at the planet's current orbit like your calc suggests. So if we use your logic that the ETSO will keep expanding without being constrained by the dimension,

Not necessarily as there’s no statement that says the planet is at the edge of the dimension.

then you'd need to have a more accurate calc.

Even if no we don’t, we know it can be independent of time-space based on zetsu’s statement

 

[HelloThere1089]

No it’s not. The earths diameter is 12700 km wide. It’s take more than 5 minutes it to be flung away from earth.

Did the ETSO seem to be moving away from the cast at 30 km per sec? If not then it was affected by Earth's gravity.

Guess what? The Tso doesn’t last that long. After the Tso is released, there follows a long sequence in slow motion and Kaguya is quickly sealed. Even if we low ball and say these characters are moving at lightning speeds, the planet would have barely even moved.

Are you saying that not even one second passed from the creation of the ETSO and the sealing of Kaguya? If it did pass, then the ETSO should have been 30 km away from the cast.

But we know it doesn’t. A celestial object of that size would instantly have disintegrates and crashed towards earth from being that close in which it only does that when Kaguya is sealed.

The Chibaku Tensei isn't a celestial object because it didn't disintegrate?

Proving that it was not affected by the planets gravity and was being sustained by its Kaguya and ignoring gravity

You see the CT? It is held there by telekinesis. Same way TSOs are manipulated.

Not necessarily as there’s no statement that says the planet is at the edge of the dimension.

I never said it is. However having earth to sun as radius is the safest interpretation.

Even if no we don’t, we know it can be independent of time-space based on zetsu’s statement

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

In any case, I don't think we'll reach anywhere by continuing this. So just put me in disagree. You already have enough votes for this to be accepted.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm fine with this. If this gets accepted by CGMs and other relevant staff members I can just update the calc with the new values

 

[DavidTPPM]

Idk why didn't you just say this when the thread was up since a similar issue was found and fixed in that thread already.

 

[sageof8paths]

Did the ETSO seem to be moving away from the cast at 30 km per sec? If not then it was affected by Earth's gravity.

Like I said bf u can’t prove it, it originally spawns with the curvature of the planet in site and growing larger rapidly,

Aside from that 30km/s would look like slow motion to these characters, it’s slower than lightning be fr.

The Tso is quickly destroyed a few pages later, nothing suggests had it not, it would not have eventually appeared to have moved.

Are you saying that not even one second passed from the creation of the ETSO and the sealing of Kaguya? If it did pass, then the ETSO should have been 30 km away from the cast.

Okay, get your pixel scales and prove it hasn’t moved 30km while accounting for the fact that it’s growing way faster than 30km/s and is already massive enough the show the planets curvature at its origin.

The Chibaku Tensei isn't a celestial object because it didn't disintegrate?

You see the CT? It is held there by telekinesis. Same way TSOs are manipulated.

Thats the point bro and why your argument fails, these people can make objects like that ignore gravity.

I never said it is. However having earth to sun as radius is the safest interpretation.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

In any case, I don't think we'll reach anywhere by continuing this. So just put me in disagree. You already have enough votes for this to be accepted.

Ok

 

[Qawsedf234]

Distance from earth to sun: 149.2 million km

Etso radius≈ 300 million km (since the etso was going to destroy the sun as well, but just the distance between it and earth)

The ETSO wouldn't have a radius of 300 million km. It would at most be 1 AU + Sun' diameter. 300 million km would be the diameter of the ETSO.

 

[sageof8paths]

Idk why didn't you just say this when the thread was up since a similar issue was found and fixed in that thread already.

I wasn’t online when the original thread was up

 

[sageof8paths]

The ETSO wouldn't have a radius of 300 million km. It would at most be 1 AU + Sun' diameter. 300 million km would be the diameter of the ETSO.

Claim with no explanation

 

[Qawsedf234]

Claim with no explanation

The explanation is that's how circles work. The centerpoint (the Earth) to the edge of the circle (the Sun) is the radius, which is 1 AU + the Sun's diameter. You're confusing radius with diameter so you bloated to total volume.

 

[sageof8paths]

The explanation is that's how circles work. The centerpoint (the Earth) to the edge of the circle (the Sun) is the radius, which is 1 AU + the Sun's diameter. You're confusing radius with diameter so you bloated to total volume.

I didn’t confuse it with the radius,

It seems you misunderstood my argument. It’s already been established before this thread that the sun in no interpretation can be at the edge of the circle because of its day and night cycle to imply it rotating around the sun.

I urge u to re-read the thread again, I don’t think you quite understood the argument.

 

[Qawsedf234]

established before this thread that the sun in no interpretation can be at the edge of the circle because of its day and night cycle to imply it rotating around the sun.

A day-night cycle is based on planetary rotation. The only thing an orbit gives you is seasons.

 

[sageof8paths]

A day-night cycle is based on planetary rotation. The only thing an orbit gives you is seasons.

Im not well informed on the reasoning for why this was accepted. @HelloThere1089 could you explain since you’re the one who pointed it out? My thread was made to say that if we are going with the rotational space, this is a better interpretation.

 

[DavidTPPM]

So there is one difference with the reasoning.

You are saying that the ETSO would probably stay in the same spot and not be centered inside the sun.

But the original value is not based around the position of ETSO but on the size of the dimension. The presence of a star and a day-night cycle proves the dimension is large enough to contain a star with a planet spinning around it. Nothing more.

What you're saying would 100% make sense if the dimension is large enough for the TSO to stay centered in the spot it was created. But there is no evidence the dimension is that big. You're basically claiming the dimension is 2x wider than what our evidence can prove.

And to claim the dimension is more likely to be 2x wider than for the ETSO to just move its center towards the sun as it reaches the edge of the dimension you need some evidence. Because rn it seems like a baseless claim

 

[HelloThere1089]

A day-night cycle is based on planetary rotation. The only thing an orbit gives you is seasons.

Basically the rationale is that the day and night proves it is an actual star system. So even if we don't see any seasons, the planet needs to revolve around the star or else it would get sucked into the star via gravitation.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Basically the rationale is that the day and night proves it is an actual star system

It having a star gives you the same thing afaik. The assumption would still be our pocket dimension standards and not double the orbital rotation.

revolve around the star or else it would get sucked into the star via gravitation

The thing with destroying a pocket dimension is that there's no space after the edge. Like once you hit the end of the pocket there's literally nothing there spatially. So even if you did want to go with an argument of a planetary rotation, the volume of the sphere can never be more than the estimated volume of the pocket dimension since it would be physically restrained by those limits.

Or to use an example, a 10 gallon bucket can only ever hold 10 gallons. You can stuff more gallons in that bucket because there's no space for it.

 

[HelloThere1089]

It having a star gives you the same thing afaik. The assumption would still be our pocket dimension standards and not double the orbital rotation.

The thing with destroying a pocket dimension is that there's no space after the edge. Like once you hit the end of the pocket there's literally nothing there spatially. So even if you did want to go with an argument of a planetary rotation, the volume of the sphere can never be more than the estimated volume of the pocket dimension since it would be physically restrained but those limits.

I am not arguing about that. Sage tagged me to explain why the dimension's diameter is considered 2 AU at the minimum. If you agree then we have no disagreement here.