Kaguya Ōtsutsuki Vs. Arcueid Brunestud (ArcheType: Earth)

[Zerzavyx98]

It only makes sense that Arc's speed gradually goes up from her base form, but I can't find a single thing on Arc's Earth Type speed.

Ultimate One is said to be the source of her power-upgrade if she is recieves back up from Earth, or is near a product of Earth. I've already shown that Kaguya could instantenously warp the wield to her own dimension.

Can someone find me a legit calc of Arc Earth Type's speed because I don't know where the MHS+ came from on her article page. Also information on her intangibility is non-existent and might just be fan-fiction.

Speed statements I have found on Google suggest Arc isn't even at mach 1000,

http://forums.mirrormoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=373 - mach 1

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=907101 -Toriko stated to be marginally faster than Arc at the time he was Mach 700

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/cain-v-s-arcueid.251963/ - mach 30+ at 30% (Does that mean 100% would be mach 100?)


I still have my vote on Kaguya with the evidence I provided, she's at least mach 3,000 (from being able to keep up, and even blitz Naruto and Sasuke) and the fact that she can instantenously dimension switch means that Arc is disconnected from the Earth as soon as the battle begins. All of Arc's hax and critical power goes out the window at that very moment.

 

[Yamatohime]

100% Arc is not even ATE Arc. ATE Arc is always faster than her opponent on Earth (but according to MB manga she can't outrun laser - but managed to dodge well in her 30% incarnation).

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Zerzavyx Why on Earth ( no pun intended ) are you guys still talking about the whole different planet thing? I already explained in 2 different comments why that's pointless, just stop. This is not a battle of speed, is a battle of HAX. An Arc's hax is superior to Kaguya's hax. Kaguya has no way to put Arc down permanently. On the other hand, Arc has the means to kill Kaguya permanently, and i also already explained that in another comment. Arc wins this.

 

[KamiYasha]

I Believe that her Massively Hypersonic+ comes from power-scaling to the others Types.

 

[Yamatohime]

I Believe that her Massively Hypersonic+ comes from power-scaling to the others Types.

It's a flawed logic than. Because ORT moves slow and steady.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Zerzavyx Why on Earth

hehe

 

[KamiYasha]

Well, my vote still goes to AcheType, i mean, a bloodlusted kaguya isn't going to do dimensional travel at all.

So ArcheType will still have her Backup from Gaia. Also, when kaguya showed a Low-Godly Regenerationn? The highest Regenerationn feat comes from madara (Low-Mid).

Also, i could be wrong, but, isn't ArcheType stronger or at least as strong as full powered Gilgamesh?

 

[Non-Bias]

Well even though she was bloodthirsty she'd jump from different dimensions in order to use the terrain to her advantage when pressured.

 

[Alakabamm]

You see, this is why I don't vote on Type Moon stuff, because it's so incompatible with other verses that it's not even funny.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Kaguya most definitely will go for different dimensions.

Kaguya stated that planet Earth was her nusery, and would rather fight somewhere else where she won't hurt her people. Her first move fighting Naruto and Sasuke WAS dimension shifting...

The reason as to why this debate is going on is because the majority of Arc's hax is conviently countered by Kaguya. The source of Arc's incredible power is her connection to Gaia, we all know this. Kaguya's main hax moveset is based around reality warping and dimension hax, which cleary is a weak-point of Arc.

This isn't some "reality marble" thing from the Nasuverse, this is a legitimate full counter to what Arc's power source.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Kaguya most definitely will go for different dimensions.
Kaguya stated that planet Earth was her nusery, and would rather fight somewhere else where she won't hurt her people. Her first move fighting Naruto and Sasuke WAS dimension shifting...

The reason as to why this debate is going on is because the majority of Arc's hax is conviently countered by Kaguya. The source of Arc's incredible power is her connection to Gaia, we all know this. Kaguya's main hax moveset is based around reality warping and dimension hax, which cleary is a weak-point of Arc.

This isn't some "reality marble" thing from the Nasuverse, this is a legitimate full counter to what Arc's power source.

Do you even know what "bloodlust" is? Doesn't seem like it. "Bloodlust is a state where character is fighting without any inhibitions, and cares about nothing other than defeating the enemy. Bloodlusted character won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle. A bloodlusted character will not be affected by CIS, and will be much more likely to speedblitz his opponent as soon as the battle starts."

Kaguya won't use dimensional transfer, because bloodlusted characters give absolutely zero f*cks about the location of the fight, no matter where said location is. Kaguya CANNOT kill Arc permanently. Arc, on the other hand, CAN kill Kaguya permanently, and WILL do so as soon as the fight starts. The debate is still going because you think dimensional travel is relevant here, and it's NOT. Stop trying to bring that up, because Kaguya wouldn't even THINK about using it. She would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and they can't kill Arc permanently, if they even hit her. Kaguya, having no knowledge of Arc's powers, would open with either the ETSB or the AKB, and both would be utterly USELESS, because they cannot kill Arc permanently. Arc would just hax Kaguya to death with Marble Phantasm, Reality Warping or Probability Manipulation, and then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Kaguya most definitely will go for different dimensions.
Kaguya stated that planet Earth was her nusery, and would rather fight somewhere else where she won't hurt her people. Her first move fighting Naruto and Sasuke WAS dimension shifting...

The reason as to why this debate is going on is because the majority of Arc's hax is conviently countered by Kaguya. The source of Arc's incredible power is her connection to Gaia, we all know this. Kaguya's main hax moveset is based around reality warping and dimension hax, which cleary is a weak-point of Arc.

This isn't some "reality marble" thing from the Nasuverse, this is a legitimate full counter to what Arc's power source.

Do you even know what "bloodlust" is? Doesn't seem like it. "Bloodlust is a state where character is fighting without any inhibitions, and cares about nothing other than defeating the enemy. Bloodlusted character won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle. A bloodlusted character will not be affected by CIS, and will be much more likely to speedblitz his opponent as soon as the battle starts."
Kaguya won't use dimensional transfer, because bloodlusted characters give absolutely zero f*cks about the location of the fight, no matter where said location is. Kaguya CANNOT kill Arc permanently. Arc, on the other hand, CAN kill Kaguya permanently, and WILL do so as soon as the fight starts. The debate is still going because you think dimensional travel is relevant here, and it's NOT. Stop trying to bring that up, because Kaguya wouldn't even THINK about using it. She would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and they can't kill Arc permanently, if they even hit her. Kaguya, having no knowledge of Arc's powers, would open with either the ETSB or the AKB, and both would be utterly USELESS, because they cannot kill Arc permanently. Arc would just hax Kaguya to death with Marble Phantasm, Reality Warping or Probability Manipulation, and then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

Arc isn't even at Kaguya's speed...

Kaguya speed is calc'd above mach 3,000 meanwhile Arc i stuck between mach 1 and mach 440.

Kaguya blitz and throws her ash-killing bones at Arc, the battle would end there.

"the bone and target starts to deteriorate at a molecular level, rotting the victims and reducing their bodies to nothing more than a pile of ash."

The ash bones transmute you into Ash so its impossible to heal something that literally alters your atomic structure.

http://www.**********.com/naruto/684/17 - Naruto's clone was shown to have degenerate even those he had Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/9 - Even with Naruto rapidly healing Obito back to his original structure, it didn't work. Ash killing bones ignores Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/13 http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/15 Ash killing-bones travel at critical speeds, and should be calc'd to Mach 3000 seeing as how they caught Naruto

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Kaguya most definitely will go for different dimensions.
Kaguya stated that planet Earth was her nusery, and would rather fight somewhere else where she won't hurt her people. Her first move fighting Naruto and Sasuke WAS dimension shifting...

The reason as to why this debate is going on is because the majority of Arc's hax is conviently countered by Kaguya. The source of Arc's incredible power is her connection to Gaia, we all know this. Kaguya's main hax moveset is based around reality warping and dimension hax, which cleary is a weak-point of Arc.

This isn't some "reality marble" thing from the Nasuverse, this is a legitimate full counter to what Arc's power source.

Do you even know what "bloodlust" is? Doesn't seem like it. "Bloodlust is a state where character is fighting without any inhibitions, and cares about nothing other than defeating the enemy. Bloodlusted character won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle. A bloodlusted character will not be affected by CIS, and will be much more likely to speedblitz his opponent as soon as the battle starts."
Kaguya won't use dimensional transfer, because bloodlusted characters give absolutely zero f*cks about the location of the fight, no matter where said location is. Kaguya CANNOT kill Arc permanently. Arc, on the other hand, CAN kill Kaguya permanently, and WILL do so as soon as the fight starts. The debate is still going because you think dimensional travel is relevant here, and it's NOT. Stop trying to bring that up, because Kaguya wouldn't even THINK about using it. She would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and they can't kill Arc permanently, if they even hit her. Kaguya, having no knowledge of Arc's powers, would open with either the ETSB or the AKB, and both would be utterly USELESS, because they cannot kill Arc permanently. Arc would just hax Kaguya to death with Marble Phantasm, Reality Warping or Probability Manipulation, and then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

Arc isn't even at Kaguya's speed...
Kaguya speed is calc'd above mach 3,000 meanwhile Arc i stuck between mach 1 and mach 440.

Kaguya blitz and throws her ash-killing bones at Arc, the battle would end there.

"the bone and target starts to deteriorate at a molecular level, rotting the victims and reducing their bodies to nothing more than a pile of ash."

The ash bones transmute you into Ash so its impossible to heal something that literally alters your atomic structure.

http://www.**********.com/naruto/684/17 - Naruto's clone was shown to have degenerate even those he had Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/9 - Even with Naruto rapidly healing Obito back to his original structure, it didn't work. Ash killing bones ignores Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/13 http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/15 Ash killing-bones travel at critical speeds, and should be calc'd to Mach 3000 seeing as how they caught Naruto

The Ash-Killing Bones wouldn't kill Arc because her Regenerationn works via reversing time to before she was hurt. Nothing Kaguya can do about that. And Arc can exist as a disembodied soul anyways, so even if she couldn't regen, she would still not be dead. Speed is irrelevant here because Arc has Reality Warping and Probability Manipulation, and you can't dodge those. Kaguya might be able to dodge Marble Phantasm, but that depends on how Arc uses it. I also would like proof Arc's max speed is Mach 440, since i don't recall that calc being made.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Marble Phantasm won't phase Kaguya. illusions dont work on Bijuu (which Kaguya is), and the probability hax isn't much help when Kaguya, at mach 3,000 could pass 100 different outcomes in less then a few seconds when facing a much slower opponent. Arc's reality warping isn't even that impressive, and in fact takes time to happen.

Arc's Marble Phantasm feats sound like a fight for street-level characters.

""When Arcueid uses Marble Phantasm on Michael Roa Valdamjong, she turns layers of the atmosphere in the corridor into a vacuum that cut him like a knife would a radish. Although Roa himself was not affected, there was no way to avoid being chopped in pieces by the atmosphere, and Roa only narrowly managed to remain as just his ankles - Arcueid's imagination didn't go as far as having the floor dislocate."

Kaguya has the ability of flight and has Regenerationn. This is a easy pass.

"When not restricted, Arcueid can create a village in the mountains. In locations where humans have made changes, it will take more time to first break it down."

"then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

1) Marble Phantasm doesn't reduce anything to zero probability, just a very low chance.

2) I stated the resistance to the powers above

3) Yes, yes she can. If ash-killing bones isn't Kaguya's first option, increasing her chances of getting a beautiful, blood-lusted kill is. Kaguya's first move is most likely to use the dimensional shift, and at that very moment is where Arc is, as I said before, useless.

Moon drop? Kaguya has the durability to tank that, and even the AP to just hit it and take no damage.

I still need proof of Arcueid having: intangibility, MHS+ speed, and a feat where she could reduce probability to zero.

 

[KamiYasha]

Even with Naruto rapidly healing Obito back to his original structure, it didn't work. Ash killing bones ignores Regenerationn.

Naruto's regenerations is lame. It isn't on madara's level.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Kaguya most definitely will go for different dimensions.
Kaguya stated that planet Earth was her nusery, and would rather fight somewhere else where she won't hurt her people. Her first move fighting Naruto and Sasuke WAS dimension shifting...

The reason as to why this debate is going on is because the majority of Arc's hax is conviently countered by Kaguya. The source of Arc's incredible power is her connection to Gaia, we all know this. Kaguya's main hax moveset is based around reality warping and dimension hax, which cleary is a weak-point of Arc.

This isn't some "reality marble" thing from the Nasuverse, this is a legitimate full counter to what Arc's power source.

Do you even know what "bloodlust" is? Doesn't seem like it. "Bloodlust is a state where character is fighting without any inhibitions, and cares about nothing other than defeating the enemy. Bloodlusted character won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle. A bloodlusted character will not be affected by CIS, and will be much more likely to speedblitz his opponent as soon as the battle starts." Kaguya won't use dimensional transfer, because bloodlusted characters give absolutely zero f*cks about the location of the fight, no matter where said location is. Kaguya CANNOT kill Arc permanently. Arc, on the other hand, CAN kill Kaguya permanently, and WILL do so as soon as the fight starts. The debate is still going because you think dimensional travel is relevant here, and it's NOT. Stop trying to bring that up, because Kaguya wouldn't even THINK about using it. She would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and they can't kill Arc permanently, if they even hit her. Kaguya, having no knowledge of Arc's powers, would open with either the ETSB or the AKB, and both would be utterly USELESS, because they cannot kill Arc permanently. Arc would just hax Kaguya to death with Marble Phantasm, Reality Warping or Probability Manipulation, and then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

Arc isn't even at Kaguya's speed...
Kaguya speed is calc'd above mach 3,000 meanwhile Arc i stuck between mach 1 and mach 440.

Kaguya blitz and throws her ash-killing bones at Arc, the battle would end there.

"the bone and target starts to deteriorate at a molecular level, rotting the victims and reducing their bodies to nothing more than a pile of ash."

The ash bones transmute you into Ash so its impossible to heal something that literally alters your atomic structure.

http://www.**********.com/naruto/684/17 - Naruto's clone was shown to have degenerate even those he had Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/9 - Even with Naruto rapidly healing Obito back to his original structure, it didn't work. Ash killing bones ignores Regenerationn. http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/13 http://www.**********.com/naruto/687/15 Ash killing-bones travel at critical speeds, and should be calc'd to Mach 3000 seeing as how they caught Naruto

The Ash-Killing Bones wouldn't kill Arc because her Regenerationn works via reversing time to before she was hurt. Nothing Kaguya can do about that. And Arc can exist as a disembodied soul anyways, so even if she couldn't regen, she would still not be dead. Speed is irrelevant here because Arc has Reality Warping and Probability Manipulation, and you can't dodge those. Kaguya might be able to dodge Marble Phantasm, but that depends on how Arc uses it. I also would like proof Arc's max speed is Mach 440, since i don't recall that calc being made.

Nevermind, it was Mach 170 accepted as a calc in OBD apparently. OBD counts MHS+ from 100-8,800 btw: http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/...terms/2-uncategorised/50-massively-hypersonic

http://forums.********.me/threads/450443-Arcueid-Brunestud-vs-Evangeline-A-K-Mcdowell/page8

"Also, in the OBD 100% Arc or Archetype Earth is accepted as having mach 170 or so speed. Powerscaling from Type Jupiter."

on VsBattle, Arc's actual speed should be MHS.

"She can bypass it by creating an entirely new body, but the act costs eighty percent of her available energy and leaves her close to death unless she returns to her castle to rest when she comes back" - if Arc comes back in a new body, she'll be weak

And if she goes into this "soul mode" -

" Melty Blood Red Arc is a hypothetical Arcueid that has ceased restraining her blood lust and succumbed entirely. Much like Shiki Nanaya, Red Arcueid doesn't truly exist. She is the version of Arcueid who has given fully into her bloodlust and unlocking her full powers for fighting, making her lose all traces of humanity and morality in his soul and desiring to do nothing but kill all in their path for fun, which is the greatest fear of Arcueid. However, she is an illusion created by Wallachia, a manifestation of the fears inside Arcueid's heart. The main route of Melty Blood has Wallachia materialize"

- Stated to be just an illusion, to not even exist... if the Archtype version does exist though, she is still opening to being quickly sealed.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Even with Naruto rapidly healing Obito back to his original structure, it didn't work. Ash killing bones ignores Regenerationn.Naruto's regenerations is lame. It isn't on madara's level.

Naruto's matter manipulation is different from Madara's Regenerationn though. Shown in the Obito case, Naruto could actually Regenerationn people from having their atom structure falling apart, but all-killing ash bones degenerates and negates Regenerationn in all.

Welp, he could still regenerate organs. Fallen of limbs? probably not. It is stated that Naruto has the body of Hagoromo though, so in theory he should be able to regenerate like Madara. We just never saw Naruto split open in his Six Paths Sage Mode Form.

http://images.myfavoritegames.com/g...121-140/Episode_132/Naruto-Episode132_419.jpg

His durability is hella good though: http://www.**********.com/naruto/695/5

if only his cloak was less haxish, we couldn't seen some Regenerationn feats..

As for his arm being blown off, that happened in base mode and with almost no more chakra...

 

[Reppuzan]

Marble Phantasm (despite its name) isn't an illusion. It's the reshaping of nature to Arc's will. She can atomize you with the oxygen in the air, raise a castle from nothing, drop the moon on you. If it is related to the natural order, she can do it. ATE's imagination is much greater than Arc's since she is literally nature itself. It also lets her manipulate probability from 100% to 0%. If she wants something to happen (i.e. pick the one white marble out of millions of black marbles in a bag) she'd get it. She can reduce the probability of Kaguya's Regenerationn to 0% and then atomize her with oxygen blades. The phantasm portion of the name refers to the fact that it has great magical power, a "mystery" if you will, that would be considered legend in the modern world. Kaguya simply does not have anything that would stop ATE from blitzing her with oxygen blades from the start.

Even if Kaguya can blast through the moon, she still needs time to do that. All the while ATE is still attacking with chains, lava, blizzards, and the very air itself. ATE's arsenal is just too overwhelming.

Ultimate One raises Arc's speed and striking stats to match Kaguya's, the speedblitz argument is irrelevant (which you refuse to listen to).

 

[KamiYasha]

Naruto's Matter Manipulation.


That is beyond any logic.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Marble Phantasm won't phase Kaguya. illusions dont work on Bijuu (which Kaguya is), and the probability hax isn't much help when Kaguya, at mach 3,000 could pass 100 different outcomes in less then a few seconds when facing a much slower opponent. Arc's reality warping isn't even that impressive, and in fact takes time to happen.
Arc's Marble Phantasm feats sound like a fight for street-level characters.

""When Arcueid uses Marble Phantasm on Michael Roa Valdamjong, she turns layers of the atmosphere in the corridor into a vacuum that cut him like a knife would a radish. Although Roa himself was not affected, there was no way to avoid being chopped in pieces by the atmosphere, and Roa only narrowly managed to remain as just his ankles - Arcueid's imagination didn't go as far as having the floor dislocate."

Kaguya has the ability of flight and has Regenerationn. This is a easy pass.

"When not restricted, Arcueid can create a village in the mountains. In locations where humans have made changes, it will take more time to first break it down."

"then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

1) Marble Phantasm doesn't reduce anything to zero probability, just a very low chance.

2) I stated the resistance to the powers above

3) Yes, yes she can. If ash-killing bones isn't Kaguya's first option, increasing her chances of getting a beautiful, blood-lusted kill is. Kaguya's first move is most likely to use the dimensional shift, and at that very moment is where Arc is, as I said before, useless.

Moon drop? Kaguya has the durability to tank that, and even the AP to just hit it and take no damage.

I still need proof of Arcueid having: intangibility, MHS+ speed, and a feat where she could reduce probability to zero.

No. Kaguya would start with either the ETSB or the ash killing bones. You said it yourself. She wouldn't use dimensional transfer because the ETSB and the bones are more efficient killing methods, and she is bloodlusted. Stop trying to downplay ATE based on feats from 30% power Arc. You obviously don't have any idea of what probability manipulation is if you think "passing 100 different outcomes" grants someone any kind of resistance or imunnity to it. You're also ignoring the fact that, due to ATE's link to Gaia, her stats would increase in accordance to Kaguya's. Regarding your other post, someone with actual knowledge of TM correct me if i'm wrong, but Type Jupiter only appeared in Angel Notes. So his only feats come from when he was on Earth. Doesn't that make him weaker than he would be normally, since he's on Earth and not on Jupiter? If so, ATE is only Mach 170 if she doesn't have her link with Gaia, right? ( This question is directed at someone with actual TM knowledge, just saiying )

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Gottem.

Probability manupulation and reality manupulation are two different things.

Probability manipulation only increases the chances of something being VERY unlikely, or HIGH likely.

"Probability manipulation isn't god mode. Your thinking reality manipulation. Probability manipulation is luck, chance, and changing circumstances to fit possible outcomes. You can change the likelihood of certain outcomes, but you can't change the pre-existing variables, you can't change one substance into another, nor change personalities or minds. That would require a different subset of abilities that change parameters themselves, like mind control, or reality warping, probability can only effect the chances of something possible happening, not create possibility from nothing."

As for Kaguya needing "time" to punch through a moon..

Nope, not really. One regular charged punch from a weaker form of Naruto pushed back a moon-splitting attack (which is calc at continental or multi-continental).

As for what Marble Phantasm is, I did get it wrong... its to materialize visions (to bring illusions to reality) so my fault on that one.

And Kaguya DOES have things to counter Arc's Marble Phantasm hax of "atomizing oxygen into blades"

Dude... Kaguya is a legit reality warper. Unlike Arc, she doesnt' rely on natural occurances of probability.

http://i3.**********.com/naruto/683/naruto-5031415.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222098/4574037-5817163851-Narut.png

http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/682/10-11.png

http://img.***********.com/cdn/manga/49/2400/16-17.png

http://www.**********.com/naruto/683/6

http://www.**********.com/naruto/682/17

 

[Zerzavyx98]

And I have acknowledged the ultimate one ability and already commented on it.

"But seriously, Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension. Even the Arc could just drop the moon on Kaguya. Better yet, if Kaguya somehow dodges that Arc can just lower her stats with Blut die Schwester.

General stat differences can be easily closed with her Ultimate One earth backup and I still doubt that Kaguya's antics will be able to cut Archetype: Earth off since we haven't seen her enter anything that wasn't a parallel Earth. In addition, Arc can still acess her backup even within the realm of dreams if she ever got serious. Marble Phantasm will also shred Kaguya with ease."

"Ultimate One is said to be the source of her power-upgrade if she is recieves back up from Earth, or is near a product of Earth. I've already shown that Kaguya could instantenously warp the wield to her own dimension."

UO happens in Arc's Archtype Earth form. I answered your question: "Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension" - which Kaguya can do.

I made those long text walls with tons of evidence that Kaguya's dimensions are definitely not Earth, or "parrallel" to Earth.

 

[Yamatohime]

When did Marble Phantasm become illusion in this discussion?

 

[Reppuzan]

The thing is, Ultimate One makes Archetype Earth FASTER than Kaguya. Battle starts, ATE unleashes Marble Phantasm, Kaguya is sliced to pieces before she can start her dimension warp.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

And I have acknowledged the ultimate one ability and already commented on it.
"But seriously, Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension. Even the Arc could just drop the moon on Kaguya. Better yet, if Kaguya somehow dodges that Arc can just lower her stats with Blut die Schwester.

General stat differences can be easily closed with her Ultimate One earth backup and I still doubt that Kaguya's antics will be able to cut Archetype: Earth off since we haven't seen her enter anything that wasn't a parallel Earth. In addition, Arc can still acess her backup even within the realm of dreams if she ever got serious. Marble Phantasm will also shred Kaguya with ease."

"Ultimate One is said to be the source of her power-upgrade if she is recieves back up from Earth, or is near a product of Earth. I've already shown that Kaguya could instantenously warp the wield to her own dimension."

UO happens in Arc's Archtype Earth form. I answered your question: "Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension" - which Kaguya can do.

I made those long text walls with tons of evidence that Kaguya's dimensions are definitely not Earth, or "parrallel" to Earth.

That's pointless because Kaguya won't use dimensional travel, because bloodlust. Those scans you showed only show her dimensional travel and her manipulating the enviroment. Marble Phantasm can also change the enviroment, your point is? If Kaguya could Reality Warp, she would have used it to erase Team 7 and Obito out of existence when she decided to kill them. Kaguya can't warp reality, stop wanking. Probability Manipulation isn't just making things have high or low chance of happening, it also involves making so things have 100% or 0% chance of happening. Probability Manipulation isn't Reality Warping, that's obvious. But is still pretty broken. And Arc also has Time Manipulation and Reality Warping too. I already explained why and how ATE wins this, and you seemingly can't accept ATE wins this, since you just go back to the whole different dimension thing, despite the fact that i already told you multiple times why that's pointless. ATE wins this due to her link with Gaia making her stats equal or superior to Kaguya's, and having better hax.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Marble Phantasm won't phase Kaguya. illusions dont work on Bijuu (which Kaguya is), and the probability hax isn't much help when Kaguya, at mach 3,000 could pass 100 different outcomes in less then a few seconds when facing a much slower opponent. Arc's reality warping isn't even that impressive, and in fact takes time to happen.
Arc's Marble Phantasm feats sound like a fight for street-level characters.

""When Arcueid uses Marble Phantasm on Michael Roa Valdamjong, she turns layers of the atmosphere in the corridor into a vacuum that cut him like a knife would a radish. Although Roa himself was not affected, there was no way to avoid being chopped in pieces by the atmosphere, and Roa only narrowly managed to remain as just his ankles - Arcueid's imagination didn't go as far as having the floor dislocate."

Kaguya has the ability of flight and has Regenerationn. This is a easy pass.

"When not restricted, Arcueid can create a village in the mountains. In locations where humans have made changes, it will take more time to first break it down."

"then reduce the probability of Kaguya regenerating/surviving it to zero with probability manipulation. Kaguya has no resistance to any of those powers. She can't do anything to stop Arc from using them. Kaguya loses this fight.

1) Marble Phantasm doesn't reduce anything to zero probability, just a very low chance.

2) I stated the resistance to the powers above

3) Yes, yes she can. If ash-killing bones isn't Kaguya's first option, increasing her chances of getting a beautiful, blood-lusted kill is. Kaguya's first move is most likely to use the dimensional shift, and at that very moment is where Arc is, as I said before, useless.

Moon drop? Kaguya has the durability to tank that, and even the AP to just hit it and take no damage.

I still need proof of Arcueid having: intangibility, MHS+ speed, and a feat where she could reduce probability to zero.

No. Kaguya would start with either the ETSB or the ash killing bones. You said it yourself. She wouldn't use dimensional transfer because the ETSB and the bones are more efficient killing methods, and she is bloodlusted. Stop trying to downplay ATE based on feats from 30% power Arc. You obviously don't have any idea of what probability manipulation is if you think "passing 100 different outcomes" grants someone any kind of resistance or imunnity to it. You're also ignoring the fact that, due to ATE's link to Gaia, her stats would increase in accordance to Kaguya's. Regarding your other post, someone with actual knowledge of TM correct me if i'm wrong, but Type Jupiter only appeared in Angel Notes. So his only feats come from when he was on Earth. Doesn't that make him weaker than he would be normally, since he's on Earth and not on Jupiter? If so, ATE is only Mach 170 if she doesn't have her link with Gaia, right? ( This question is directed at someone with actual TM knowledge, just saiying )

"No. Kaguya would start with either the ETSB or the ash killing bones. You said it yourself. She wouldn't use dimensional transfer because the ETSB and the bones are more efficient killing methods, and she is bloodlusted."

Thats a fallacy of division. Kaguya has different killing options, and I simply made another example. She doesn't have just one way to jump into a fight; especially when blood-lusted.

If Arc has the option to jump into Arch-type in a blood-lusted fight which is preperation, than Kaguya should also be able to use her options including dimension shifting. Both Arc transforming and Kaguya's dimension shifting happen in an instant correct? Moves that set up to better performance in battle should be an exception in bloodlusted fights, otherwise Arc would just die if she was truel blood lusted.

- This was before I was corrected by someone. I also stated "If ash-killing bones isn't Kaguya's first option, increasing her chances of getting a beautiful, blood-lusted kill is. Kaguya's first move is most likely to use the dimensional shift, and at that very moment is where Arc is, as I said before, useless."

 

[KamiYasha]

This is from a interview:

Q. Whose stronger, Gilgamesh or Arcueid (30%)? While Arcueid has the strength of 4 Servants, I remember reading a scene in hollow where Gil was the equivalent of 5 Servants + a. A. In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output can be changed in accordance with her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is only allowed an output that is slightly stronger than her opponent. So. Single entity ability of Arc to a Servant is roughly the same.

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons, and with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "unit ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the 5 Servants + a is simply a comparison in terms of "firepower". Like with the "corpses", where each won't have to bother fending off attacks from foot soldier level opponents, the one who'd have the lead is the one who has the more weapons. In Broad Bridge, the reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

Note: 100% Arc or "Crimson Moon" (or whatever you wanna call it) is not even close to ArcheType

Also, doing some research, i've read that the only way of breaking her conecction to Gaia is destroying the planet or destroying her soul or "conection".

Plus her Marble Phantasm isn't an ilusion. "Marble Phantasm (þ®║µâ│ÕàÀþÅ¥Õîû, Kuusou Gugenka?, Manifest Fantasy) is the ability to materialize a phantasm, a vision. It is the ability of an Elemental or True Ancestor to connect their will to nature, to interfere on probabilities, and to transfigure the surrounding world at will according to their vision of the world. As the user is a part of nature, he or she can change the world as desired, but in the end, what an elemental can act on is only something within the scope of nature."

"Much like a mathematical metaphor involving drawing a white marble from a bag of black marbles with a one percent chance, Marble Phantasm is the ability to raise that chance to one hundred percent and definitely pick the white one amongst all the black ones. This remains within the laws of the world, but similarly, a Reality Marble would allow for all of the marble to turn into white ones. This is something the world wouldn't naturally allow. It can be considered more efficient, but Reality Marbles can only specialize in that one aspect, while Marble Phantasm can perform any number of things. Reality Marbles can also affect things not of nature, so they can also be called superior in that sense."

 

[Reppuzan]

...That's still probability manipulation. Reducing the chance of something happening to 0 is something I explicitly stated is within Arc's powers. Like I said, she can do things like pull the one white marble out of a bag 100% of the time (notice 100% and not 99.99%).

That picture proves absolutely nothing. She still needs to break her focus to stop the moon drop from crushing her, which opens Kaguya to a multitude of effects I've already outlined to you. She's not a character who can instantly obliterate a moon (Toneri couldn't and if Kaguya was capable of that she would have never been sealed).

Please explain what hax she has that can stop that since Arc can still stop that Regenerationn with her probability manipulation. Even if there was a slight chance of it happening (there isn't), it's still a 99.99% chance of her Regenerationn not working. She isn't Simon the Digger, that tiny percentage chance isn't going to make a difference.

I still don't think Kaguya has reality warping for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Zerzavyx Yes she would. Kaguya is bloodlusted and her goal here is defeat ATE as fast as possible. Why on Earth ( all puns intended ) would she use attacks with less chances of killing any of her enemies when she has better options and wants to end the fight as quickly as possible? Not that anything she does can kill ATE anyway.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

And I have acknowledged the ultimate one ability and already commented on it.
"But seriously, Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension. Even the Arc could just drop the moon on Kaguya. Better yet, if Kaguya somehow dodges that Arc can just lower her stats with Blut die Schwester.

General stat differences can be easily closed with her Ultimate One earth backup and I still doubt that Kaguya's antics will be able to cut Archetype: Earth off since we haven't seen her enter anything that wasn't a parallel Earth. In addition, Arc can still acess her backup even within the realm of dreams if she ever got serious. Marble Phantasm will also shred Kaguya with ease."

"Ultimate One is said to be the source of her power-upgrade if she is recieves back up from Earth, or is near a product of Earth. I've already shown that Kaguya could instantenously warp the wield to her own dimension."

UO happens in Arc's Archtype Earth form. I answered your question: "Kaguya won't be able to do anything to Arc unless she warps the battlefield to another dimension" - which Kaguya can do.

I made those long text walls with tons of evidence that Kaguya's dimensions are definitely not Earth, or "parrallel" to Earth.

That's pointless because Kaguya won't use dimensional travel, because bloodlust. Those scans you showed only show her dimensional travel and her manipulating the enviroment. Marble Phantasm can also change the enviroment, your point is? If Kaguya could Reality Warp, she would have used it to erase Team 7 and Obito out of existence when she decided to kill them. Kaguya can't warp reality, stop wanking. Probability Manipulation isn't just making things have high or low chance of happening, it also involves making so things have 100% or 0% chance of happening. Probability Manipulation isn't Reality Warping, that's obvious. But is still pretty broken. And Arc also has Time Manipulation and Reality Warping too. I already explained why and how ATE wins this, and you seemingly can't accept ATE wins this, since you just go back to the whole different dimension thing, despite the fact that i already told you multiple times why that's pointless. ATE wins this due to her link with Gaia making her stats equal or superior to Kaguya's, and having better hax.

"Marble Phantasm can also change the enviroment, your point is?" - It's not an impressive feat of Arc.

"f Kaguya could Reality Warp, she would have used it to erase Team 7 and Obito out of existence when she decided to kill them."

- Her goal wasn't to kill them it was to take their chakra.

- She didn't warp Naruto because her warping level isn't that high

- Same could be said as to why Arc wouldn't reality warp Kaguya out of existence

"Probability Manipulation isn't Reality Warping, that's obvious. But is still pretty broken. And Arc also has Time Manipulation and Reality Warping too. "

- Find me something on Arcueid's time manipulation because I can't find ANYTHING on that either. That adds onto the list of things that Arc doesn't have...

And I gave an explanation of the limits of probability manipulation

As I said, Arc's reality-warping is on a much smaller scale than Kaguya.

 

[Yamatohime]

Wow... I see so many crazy statements of both sides... I consider this thread a trash now.

 

[Reppuzan]

Smaller scale? She can affect the entire damn planet for all she cares.

I already explained to you the Incorporeality and intangibilty concepts. Her father is currently living as an incorporeal being after having his body destroyed. Arcueid is his successor and the most powerful True Ancestor, implying her superiority and thus ownership of his powers.

No you didn't. We already explained to you that at full strength she can make the probability of something happening whatever she wants. 100% or 0%.

Arc literally created herself a new body after her existence was cut with extremely limited stamina. ATE can do that as much as she wants.

 

[Yamatohime]

No you didn't. We already explained to you that at full strength she can make the probability of something happening whatever she wants. 100% or 0%.

This is where you started to make up abilities like Zerzavyx98, who can't prove his statement too. Marble Phantasm allow to make something happen as long as two factors are intact: 1. probability of something happening is not zero; 2. it's something of natural (humans, vampires and other beings disconnected from Gaia's will are not affected directly).

Arc at 30% Marble Phantasm shows her imitation of Time Manipulation: She summoned the Crismon Moon from thousand years in future.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Zerzavyz If you're talking about Arc shredding Roa to pieces when you say "no impressive feat", she was at 30% of her base power there. If you're saying enviromental changes isn't an impressive feat, in this situation, it really isn't. But that's what your scans showed. Also, Kaguya decided to kill Naruto and the rest later on the fight. That's why she started using the ash killing bones on the first place. Read Arc's profile, her Regenerationn works by reversing time. Kaguya doesn't have Reality Warping, ATE has, even if it's limited. ATE can't think Kaguya out of existance, and she doesn't need to. The "limits" of probability manipulation don't apply to every character with the power. And they don't apply to ATE. Even if they did, the best thing Kaguya could get out of the fight is a stalemate.

 

[Yamatohime]

@Zerzavyz If you're talking about Arc shredding Roa to pieces when you say "no impressive feat", she was at 30% of her base power there.

She was not even at her 30%. First of all she was barely holding herself together because of some four-eyes. When they met prior... Roa possesed supperior body of Elsia and was defeated instantly by Arc at 30%.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Ya I'm incredibly bored and burned out with this thread. It's been 5 v 1 for like 95% of the thread and I don't feeling like whipping out the facts anymore. This has gone so far I had to look up and study Arc myself, and a lot of things on her wiki page aren't even right.

1) Her speed calc is like, mach 170 at 100% (Try yourself to find a calc or statement above Mach 500-1000. Good-luck.)

2) Her intangibility isn't even mention on freaking Google.. BRUH. Nor her time manipulation. I can see her reality warping in Marble Phantasm but thats limited to Marble Phantasm.

3) This character is built as a literal cheating device. Damn to that author who thought it was the best idea in the world to counter what-ever he/she thought of in their on verse.

I know I messed up on something on Kaguya too, the majority of people agree she is a reality warper but VsBattles hasn't accepted that as of now so its w/e


Can we leave this at inconclusive?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Ya I'm incredibly bored and burned out with this thread. It's been 5 v 1 for like 95% of the thread and I don't feeling like whipping out the facts anymore. This has gone so far I had to look up and study Arc myself, and a lot of things on her wiki page aren't even right.
1) Her speed calc is like, mach 170 at 100% (Try yourself to find a calc or statement above Mach 500-1000. Good-luck.)

2) Her intangibility isn't even mention on freaking Google.. BRUH. Nor her time manipulation. I can see her reality warping in Marble Phantasm but thats limited to Marble Phantasm.

3) This character is built as a literal cheating device. Damn to that author who thought it was the best idea in the world to counter what-ever he/she thought of in their on verse.

I know I messed up on something on Kaguya too, the majority of people agree she is a reality warper but VsBattles hasn't accepted that as of now so its w/e


Can we leave this at inconclusive?

I agree with most of this post, honestly. Inconclusive sounds good for me.

 

[KamiYasha]

As i'm seeing it, is more on the ArcheType side than inconclusive.

Plus 156 answers.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

As i'm seeing it, is more on the ArcheType side than inconclusive.
Plus 156 answers.

I also agree with this, but i don't mind it being left as inconclusive. I do think this fight will happen again sooner or later, Tsukihime remake and all.

 

[Yamatohime]

I know I messed up on something on Kaguya too, the majority of people agree she is a reality warper but VsBattles hasn't accepted that as of now so its w/e

This wiki didn't accept Types' (which is ATE is too) ability of Reality Invasion (was clearly shown by ORT and Type-Venus).