Kaguya Ōtsutsuki Vs. Arcueid Brunestud (ArcheType: Earth)

[Reppuzan]

I don't mean to sound dense, but you still haven't answered the point. There is no proof it isn't an alternate Earth. Yes, the landscape is completely different. But that's the point of an alternate dimension, where things can be different in the same place due to being in a parallel version of Earth. The lava dimension could be a world where the Earth never cooled and was left a boiling rock. The ice dimension could have been an Earth with an eternal ice age. Yes, this is speculation and conjecture but there is no concrete evidence it isn't simply a parallel Earth.

Yes, she was about to create a new dimension, but that too could have been simply a parallel version of Earth based on the multiverse theory.

No one could sense them since no one has the ability to sense through dimensions outside of god-tiers like Hagoromo. Still doesn't prove it's a different planet.

All in all, unless it says it's not Earth, it's Earth. Just a parallel one.

 

[Reppuzan]

God this god that, the title god is meaningless unless she has the power to back it up.

The point of an Aristoteles is that death literally does not apply to them. Yes, their physical form can be destroyed, but they can be easily restored for as long as their homeworld exists. Arc survived having her Lines of Death cut seventeen times, meaning someone tried to apply the concept of death to her seventeen times and it still didn't kill her. Don't think Kaguya has a feat on par with that. The energy loss doesn't apply to Arc at her best as Archetype Earth since she is a concept that cannot be destroyed without destroying the concept of Earth's Space-Time first, something Kaguya isn't capable of without blowing up the Earth, somethign she hasn't been seen actually doing and is only hyped as being capable of doing so.

Arc uses a body to interact with the physical plane but ATE doesn't need it since it embodies the concept of the Earth itself. As a result, the ATE Kaguya is fighting is merely a placeholder and the true ATE is still alive and more than willing to shred her. The incorporeal thing is from the fact that her father, who is the Ultimate One of the Moon and embodies the Crimson Moon, is currently incorporeal and is waiting for a suitable host body to take. Even if we were to restrict ATE to her current body, she is still faster than Kaguya thanks to her Ultimate One skill and should be able to easily dodge Kaguya's attacks.

 

[Yamatohime]

2Reppuza

Just remember that most of ATE abilities are only active on alive Earth (do not mix with Earth with any lifeforms).

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I don't mean to sound dense, but you still haven't answered the point. There is no proof it isn't an alternate Earth. Yes, the landscape is completely different. But that's the point of an alternate dimension, where things can be different in the same place due to being in a parallel version of Earth. The lava dimension could be a world where the Earth never cooled and was left a boiling rock. The ice dimension could have been an Earth with an eternal ice age. Yes, this is speculation and conjecture but there is no concrete evidence it isn't simply a parallel Earth.
Yes, she was about to create a new dimension, but that too could have been simply a parallel version of Earth based on the multiverse theory.

No one could sense them since no one has the ability to sense through dimensions outside of god-tiers like Hagoromo. Still doesn't prove it's a different planet.

All in all, unless it says it's not Earth, it's Earth. Just a parallel one.

That "alternate" Earth thing is just complete speculation and disproven when Kaguya made a dimension in front of the audience's eyes in real time. The starting point of that dimension wouldn't have been an alternate universe in which the Earth had a different outcome, no. It would have been a completely new and different dimension. It's never implied that the other dimensions have planets parrallel to Earth, and neither is Obito's Kamui dimension. Obito's kamui dimension isn't some place where "Earth could have been etc.," It's just another dimension with completely different properties. If you still believe that it's an alternate Earth, it's up to you to find your own evidence, meanwhile I have my evidence clearly disproving any "alternate" dimension theories. I'd like to bring up that alternative realities in fact DO exist in the Naruto universe, and even then that occurs when its specifically brought up. This is a different thing so the alternate Earth arguement is finished.

 

[Yamatohime]

Reality Marbles create dimensions in real time too. So what? Just prove it so we can believe. Not you speculation.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

God this god that, the title god is meaningless unless she has the power to back it up.
The point of an Aristoteles is that death literally does not apply to them. Yes, their physical form can be destroyed, but they can be easily restored for as long as their homeworld exists. Arc survived having her Lines of Death cut seventeen times, meaning someone tried to apply the concept of death to her seventeen times and it still didn't kill her. Don't think Kaguya has a feat on par with that. The energy loss doesn't apply to Arc at her best as Archetype Earth since she is a concept that cannot be destroyed without destroying the concept of Earth's Space-Time first, something Kaguya isn't capable of without blowing up the Earth, somethign she hasn't been seen actually doing and is only hyped as being capable of doing so.

Arc uses a body to interact with the physical plane but ATE doesn't need it since it embodies the concept of the Earth itself. As a result, the ATE Kaguya is fighting is merely a placeholder and the true ATE is still alive and more than willing to shred her. The incorporeal thing is from the fact that her father, who is the Ultimate One of the Moon and embodies the Crimson Moon, is currently incorporeal and is waiting for a suitable host body to take. Even if we were to restrict ATE to her current body, she is still faster than Kaguya thanks to her Ultimate One skill and should be able to easily dodge Kaguya's attacks.

Narutoverse plays with the concept of space-time manipulation since the early days. The use of summoning a monster, using flying thunder-god and other means of space-time warping were already established in this universe. Kaguya's reality warping and portal opening techniques are some of the peak that show Kaguya can indeed disrupt the concept of Earth's Space and Time. Early Sharingan genjutsu also messed with time, including Izanagi and Izanami I believe. Kaguya has the feats to destroy Earth, and she can easily survive in space just like the regular cast can. And this battle is between Arc's Earth mode vs Kaguya. If the extra ATE different embodiment thing doesn't apply to VsBattles it shouldn't be brought up.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I've proven countless of times that Kaguya could easiy dislink Arc from Gaia, therefore drastically decreasing her power-level and leaving her vunerable. The only thing I've seen from the other side is denial of evidence and hax that isn't even being backed up.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Zerzavyx Wow, thanks for showing that you have absolutely no idea on how the Nasuverse works. Arc knows death exists. She has killed people before. She has seen other people's death. She has been killed herself, with hax the Narutoverse will only have in their dreams. And she came back. In less than 1 day. Smiling. At 30% her full power. This is Arc at 100% here. Nothing Kaguya does can keep Arc dead for more than 10 seconds. On the other hand, Arc has multiple ways of killing Kaguya permanently, and she will do so as soon as the fight starts. You completely failed to understand what "not knowing the concept of death" means in Arc's case. It means she is not affected by the concept of death, not that she doesn't know death exists.You still haven't shown those are different planets, and that doesn't even makes a difference due to the fact that both of them are bloodlusted, and that under those circunstances, Kaguya would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and that can't kill Arc. Kaguya doesn't have a single attack or weapon that works on a conceptual weapon, so i have no idea why you brought that up. I already explained how Arc wins this on an early post, which you completelly ignored. Are you, by any chance, the guy that was saying Hagoromo would beat Archetype: Earth because he has control over life and death? Because you're sounding alot like him here.

 

[Yamatohime]

I like those fans who just like to speculate about something and can't support their statement.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

@Zerzavyx Wow, thanks for showing that you have absolutely no idea on how the Nasuverse works. Arc knows death exists. She has killed people before. She has seen other people's death. She has been killed herself, with hax the Narutoverse will only have in their dreams. And she came back. In less than 1 day. Smiling. At 30% her full power. This is Arc at 100% here. Nothing Kaguya does can keep Arc dead for more than 10 seconds. On the other hand, Arc has multiple ways of killing Kaguya permanently, and she will do so as soon as the fight starts. You completely failed to understand what "not knowing the concept of death" means in Arc's case. It means she is not affected by the concept of death, not that she doesn't know death exists.You still haven't shown those are different planets, and that doesn't even makes a difference due to the fact that both of them are bloodlusted, and that under those circunstances, Kaguya would use the Ash-Killing Bones, and that can't kill Arc. Kaguya doesn't have a single attack or weapon that works on a conceptual weapon, so i have no idea why you brought that up. I already explained how Arc wins this on an early post, which you completelly ignored. Are you, by any chance, the guy that was saying Hagoromo would beat Archetype: Earth because he has control over life and death? Because you're sounding alot like him here.

Woop-di-do, the battles on the site end by KO, incapacitation, sealing, and a few other things. Kaguya herself is immortal, but in other battles by rule, as soon as she's sealed or incapacitated, the battle ends. I also explained how Kaguya's ash-killing bones match the description of what works on Arc and what doesn't. I've also already showed the different planets, you need to keep up with the threads.

 

[Yamatohime]

I've also already showed the different planets, you need to keep up with the threads.

Actually you never show diffenetly different planet.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

@Zerzavyx I'm just went off the PC for more or less one hour, but i read everything you posted. The Ash-Killing bones will work on Arc if they hit, yes, but it won't keep her dead. She would regenerate in less than 10 seconds, and Kaguya can't prevent that, but Arc can kill Kaguya faster, and has means to keep her dead.

 

[Yamatohime]

@Zerzavyx I'm just went off the PC for more or less one hour, but i read everything you posted. The Ash-Killing bones will work on Arc if they hit, yes, but it won't keep her dead. She would regenerate in less than 10 seconds, and Kaguya can't prevent that, but Arc can kill Kaguya faster, and has means to keep her dead.

Why even materialize. Planet rotation cease is easily (and actually safer) done without real body.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Ash killing bones negate Regenerationn :/

Thats why Naruto and Obito couldn't come back from it. Naruto, Regenerationn Obito at the fastest speed couldn't stop it from killing Obito. It's worse than sealing, it litterally kills you.. and @Yama you must've missed the photos of the sand planet and Naruto's main home planet. Almost everything questioned was proven back with facts..

 

[LordAizenSama]

From what I know of Arcuied Killing her doesn't matter as she comes back.

 

[Yamatohime]

Ash killing bones negate Regenerationn :/

Arcuied Regenerationn like any True Ancestor is actually time hax. Instead of Regenerationn through healing it revert time prior taking damage. That's why MEoDP is awfully powerful and Arc called Shiki "monster among monsters". MEoDP just erase existence on all timeline.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Ash killing bones negate Regenerationn :/

Arcuied Regenerationn like any True Ancestor is actually time hax. Instead of Regenerationn through healing it revert time prior taking damage. That's why MEoDP is awfully powerful and Arc called Shiki "monster among monsters". MEoDP just erase existence on all timeline.

By this statement, Arc can win against Whis?

 

[Yamatohime]

Ash killing bones negate Regenerationn :/

Arcuied Regenerationn like any True Ancestor is actually time hax. Instead of Regenerationn through healing it revert time prior taking damage. That's why MEoDP is awfully powerful and Arc called Shiki "monster among monsters". MEoDP just erase existence on all timeline.

By this statement, Arc can win against Whis?

Actually I kind of understand now why it is useless to argue with you. =)

 

[Zerzavyx98]

I'd say the same about you but I'm asking because I'd like your word on it...

Arc is described as immensily powerful with hax that allows her to have the upper-hand in so many different situations.. especially if you could erase existence of all timelines, which is incredibly NFL, that technically means Arc could defeat anyone in the 3-A tier.

 

[Yamatohime]

Arc is described as immensily powerful with hax that allows her to have the upper-hand in so many different situations.. especially if you could erase existence of all timelines, which is incredibly NFL, that technically means Arc could defeat anyone in the 3-A tier.

That's why I said that it's useless to argue with you. You do not read properly.

 

[Reppuzan]

The Mystic Eyes of Depth Perception belong to Shiki Tohno and Ryougi Shiki. Arc doesn't have them.

What Yamato is trying to say is that you need some level of conceptual hax like the MEoDP to kill her for good. Even then she's just too overwhelming for either them to get close enough to do so.

So no, she can't fight Whis. Whis heavily outclasses her in stats and she wouldn't have enough time to touch her and he could Planet Bust to destroy Gaia's Reality Marble.

But that's not the point. What you're doing is diverting the point away from your argument to try and save face. It isn't working. We already explained to you that Arc can work her powers as the embodiment of the Earth even inside a Reality Marble if she wants to, so the dimensional issue really isn't a problem. She can even make it work inside the realm of dreams, a non-physical plane.

Literally the only way Kaguya can win is to Planet Bust, and it takes her too damn long for her to do that to give her a fighting chance.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

The following "MEoDP just erase existence on all timeline."

when fixed gramatically says "MeoDP will just erase all of existance on all timelines."

My reading comphrehension is fine, your grammar is not. When reading your posts I have to translate it with the correct grammar in order to respond to you.

My sentence and question was valid; I'm still wondering about the limits Arc has.

 

[Reppuzan]

No... you're reading it wrong.

MEoDP erases one's existence if one's point of death is pierced. It erases the existence of the target on all timelines and ceases the soul's function, meaning one can't be saved through time travel, soul manipulation, reincarnation, or conceptual hax since their life and essence is erased permanently.However, the point needs to be pierced with a sharp object first, meaning one has to get in close combat.

Again, doesn't apply to this fight. Neither Shiki is here. But you need that level of hax to end Archetype: Earth if you can't Planet Bust to do it.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

The Mystic Eyes of Depth Perception belong to Shiki Tohno and Ryougi Shiki. Arc doesn't have them.
What Yamato is trying to say is that you need some level of conceptual hax like the MEoDP to kill her for good. Even then she's just too overwhelming for either them to get close enough to do so.

So no, she can't fight Whis. Whis heavily outclasses her in stats and she wouldn't have enough time to touch her and he could Planet Bust to destroy Gaia's Reality Marble.

But that's not the point. What you're doing is diverting the point away from your argument to try and save face. It isn't working. We already explained to you that Arc can work her powers as the embodiment of the Earth even inside a Reality Marble if she wants to, so the dimensional issue really isn't a problem. She can even make it work inside the realm of dreams, a non-physical plane.

Literally the only way Kaguya can win is to Planet Bust, and it takes her too damn long for her to do that to give her a fighting chance.

Someone already shut down the arguement of Kaguya's dimensions being compared to reality marbles, which they aren't. I even proved my points on what Kaguya's dimensions are and what that means in this fight. It's simple. If Arc is de-linked from Earth, she will become invunerable.

"Alakabamm

1) You cannot apply reality marbles - a TM ability - to what has been explictly called dimensional transfer in an entirely other series. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ATE is not affected by RMs and that RMs are in actuality still "on Earth"

 

[Yamatohime]

1) You cannot apply reality marbles - a TM ability - to what has been explictly called dimensional transfer in an entirely other series. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ATE is not affected by RMs and that RMs are in actuality still "on Earth"

You can not prove to use that's it is entirely dif dimension like Dimension X (TNMT) or entirely dif planet. So it's valid to say it still different probabilty for Earth.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

No... you're reading it wrong.
MEoDP erases one's existence if one's point of death is pierced. It erases the existence of the target on all timelines and ceases the soul's function, meaning one can't be saved through time travel, soul manipulation, reincarnation, or conceptual hax since their life and essence is erased permanently.However, the point needs to be pierced with a sharp object first, meaning one has to get in close combat.

Again, doesn't apply to this fight. Neither Shiki is here. But you need that level of hax to end Archetype: Earth if you can't Planet Bust to do it.

Welp Kaguya is calc'd at planet busting, and expansive truth-seeking ball happens to expand a LOT quicker than you think it would. It happened in a matter of seconds, and keeps expanding until the proccess is finished. It was disrupted because Kaguya was sealed. This brings me back to the subject of who is faster? Kaguya or Arc?

Kaguya is said to have blitzed Naruto and Sasuke, who have both been recently calc'd at mach 3,000. In order to blitz someone you'd have to be atleast 3x faster than them, so by low end Kaguya's speed should be mach 9,000.

I need a speed feat on Arc seeing as how MHS+ goes from Mach 1,000-8,000

 

[Zerzavyx98]

1) You cannot apply reality marbles - a TM ability - to what has been explictly called dimensional transfer in an entirely other series. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ATE is not affected by RMs and that RMs are in actuality still "on Earth"

You can not prove to use that's it is entirely dif dimension like Dimension X (TNMT) or entirely dif planet. So it's valid to say it still different probabilty for Earth.

I already proved that its an entirely different dimension. If you believe other wise, prove to me why you believe that. There is litterally nothing you can find to go against my arguement other than your own belief which doesn't cut it on this site.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Kaguya is said to have blitzed Naruto and Sasuke, who have both been recently calc'd at mach 3,000. In order to blitz someone you'd have to be atleast 3x faster than them, so by low end Kaguya's speed should be mach 9,000.

I need a speed feat on Arc seeing as how MHS+ goes from Mach 1,000-8,000

that.......that is not how finding peoples speed works...................................... if she was a unknown degree faster than naruto and sasuke, she would get at least mach 3000.

also where the heck did you get the blitzing=3x faster?

and how do you quantify a blitz? it's infact the complete opposite, I remember naruto keeping pace and even overwhelming kaguya in speed

 

[Yamatohime]

1) You cannot apply reality marbles - a TM ability - to what has been explictly called dimensional transfer in an entirely other series. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ATE is not affected by RMs and that RMs are in actuality still "on Earth"

You can not prove to use that's it is entirely dif dimension like Dimension X (TNMT) or entirely dif planet. So it's valid to say it still different probabilty for Earth.

I already proved that its an entirely different dimension. If you believe other wise, prove to me why you believe that. There is litterally nothing you can find to go against my arguement other than your own belief which doesn't cut it on this site.

Your statement was that her dimensions are entire different. It's your responsibility to prove it. Not otherwise on this wiki. Please. Read rules.

 

[Zerzavyx98]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sabertoothunter/Luffy_Gear_4_speed_and_"Blitz"_meaning


https://plus.google.com/+NakulBaloni/posts/dW4Mao6hF3T


some calc thread on vsbattles

I had a feeling I did it wrong anyways. Profiles should have numbers rather than acronyms because characters of the same speed tier are sometimes margins away from eachother..

 

[Zerzavyx98]

1) You cannot apply reality marbles - a TM ability - to what has been explictly called dimensional transfer in an entirely other series. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ATE is not affected by RMs and that RMs are in actuality still "on Earth"

You can not prove to use that's it is entirely dif dimension like Dimension X (TNMT) or entirely dif planet. So it's valid to say it still different probabilty for Earth.

I already proved that its an entirely different dimension. If you believe other wise, prove to me why you believe that. There is litterally nothing you can find to go against my arguement other than your own belief which doesn't cut it on this site.

Your statement was that her dimensions are entire different. It's your responsibility to prove it. Not otherwise on this wiki. Please. Read rules.

I... I did... Its in the beautiful, huge wall of text I made for you to read. I know you haven't read it yet because if you did you couldn't be typing this right now

 

[Yamatohime]

I... I did... Its in the beautiful, huge wall of text I made for you to read. I know you haven't read it yet because if you did you couldn't be typing this right now

And who accepted it?

 

[Nibbler3100]

Id give it to Kaguya due to higher durability & power and pretty decent hax

 

[Yamatohime]

Id give it to Kaguya due to higher durability & power and pretty decent hax

Hax is hax... But DC and Durability?

 

[Zensum]

Id give it to Kaguya due to higher durability & power and pretty decent hax

No... stop

What does Kaguya have that puts her above Arcuied in durability and power. Arcuied definitly has better hax

 

[Zerzavyx98]

Can someone bring me a calc proving Arc's speed is at MHS+?? Perhaps she's power-scaled from someone else? I cant find anything on her speed.. they're all below Mach 100. I found one going from 300-400 but thats about it. If this is the case Kaguya blitz and stomps

 

[Nibbler3100]

Id give it to Kaguya due to higher durability & power and pretty decent hax

No... stop
What does Kaguya have that puts her above Arcuied in durability and power. Arcuied definitly has better hax

Her base stats are Small Planet Level and with her expansive tsb she's full planetary threat along with op regen (shown to be greater than an edo tensei) and immortality she's got this easily through a simple dimension dump as well so there goes her gaia powerup and is finished with a bomb

 

[Zensum]

Id give it to Kaguya due to higher durability & power and pretty decent hax

No... stop
What does Kaguya have that puts her above Arcuied in durability and power. Arcuied definitly has better hax

Her base stats are Small Planet Level and with her expansive tsb she's full planetary threat along with op regen (shown to be greater than an edo tensei) and immortality she's got this easily through a simple dimension dump as well so there goes her gaia powerup and is finished with a bomb

You clearly came in without even so much as taking a glance at this debate, and stated your opinion. Nice point you made there, bro. Why don't you first show me a scan of Kaguya displaying planetary busting feats then i will read the rest of your fanfic. You realize arcuied is a non coperal entity that doesnt have the concpet of death. And can also take awaya kaguya's regen and immortality via arctype earth considering this battle starts on earth.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Your behavior is completely uncalled for, I don't think you understand she was going to destroy narutoverse's earth that's planetary destructive power if that aint enough for you she's made multiple planetary sized dimensions plus I just said she can teleport her to another dimension which takes away the connection to gaia and gets rid of non-corporeal abilities the other guy above me stated the same reasoning and then she's free to be killed it won't be easy but Kaguya will take it with superior stats once she's weakened.

 

[Zensum]

Your behavior is completely uncalled for, I don't think you understand she was going to destroy narutoverse's earth that's planetary destructive power if that aint enough for you she's made multiple planetary sized dimensions plus I just said she can teleport her to another dimension which takes away the connection to gaia and gets rid of non-corporeal abilities the other guy above me stated the same reasoning and then she's free to be killed it won't be easy but Kaguya will take it with superior stats once she's weakened.

Bruh whose man is this. Idk where you read that her attack was going to destroy the NV. If you read the panel presceding the expansive TBB one, BZ says the first dimmension where IT was used on shinobi is being saved for her Zetsu army. It would be illogical to believe her attack would destroy the earth aswell as her dimmensions ( everything that encompasses the NV ) considering she not even there. The truth is we have no idea what size her dimmensions are. Secondly the fact her attack took forever to use. They were able to defeat her before the thing even landed. Arcuied could arguable beat her in less time in Arctype Earth.