JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.

[Cyberblader90]

gege's current speed scale is simple

full speed naoya > maki and everyone in her tier, and per kamo's take, also above the likes of naobito who is above everyone but gojo

characters who are exempt would be characters from the past like kashimo, most likely kicked out sorcerers like hakari, and characters like sukuna

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Yeah... because they're both raw without cursed energy, and they both can exterminate the Zenin clan. Never says that they have the same stats.

What?

Yes...They are both raw and can take out the Zenin clan...Because they have the same buffs and utilized said physical stats to accomplish the "rawness" and "extermination" you speak of. This is such a blatant non-argument I really don't need the feel to tackle it.

Everything else you said was just "he did this, he did that". I'm not obligated in countering that, I'm obligated to counter the main point.

Which you've refused to do for several posts now. Counter the distance argument.

The main point is that it's illogical that it's only a straight line blitz because it'd take 10 seconds, and Maki clearly looked at him.

No it wouldn't. All of the time in between is charge is not counted as the attack. That was Naoya building up air for his propulsion. The point of those panels is to show the distance he travelled away from them.

When Naoya attacked her we see him propel himself, and there is no reaction outside of a head turn.

the calc I did above shows none of that shit matters. She is going to under peak human no matter how you calc this.

Nothing says it's a straight 100m line blitz, so unless you can prove that it is, I don't need to tackle it at all.

I showed you the distance he moved away from them.

We know he moves in straight lines when blitzing which there are literally dozens of examples of posted in this very thread and in the same scene you see Naoya is moving in a straight line hence the visuals and the ground being ripped in a straight line.

I literally halved my assumption and gave you 50m instead of 100m and have her the benefits of the doubt in saying she could move .5m.

Result was under 13m/s. Stop the cap.

 

[KingTempest]

This cursed technique is explicitly stated to work similar to lightning

Electricity*

and is described as such.

This is called a simile, a type of figurative language used to compare one thing to another.

It's comparing itself to the Domain's sure hit function. Lightning usually doesn't miss its target, since not that many people are faster than lightning or can react to it well.
With that in mind, I don't think we've ever seen someone in the series fully dodge lightning without getting tagged, which supports its domain similarities.

So from here on out this is seeing if it follows the standards.

• Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.

Causing electrolysis in water

This is 1

having paralyzing effects

This is 2

being conductive through metals

This is 3

, causing a steam explosion after transferring mass amounts to water (which Hikari reacts to)

Not one, it's just his cursed energy turning to heat and making a big explosion

and having output stronger than normal lightning bolts.

And decent support.

So it looks like it's lightning speed

Now, admittedly, this level of speed is pretty much the actual current cap for the verse as it's a sure hit and while able to perceive it, Hikari could only slightly react and the third time is only able to heal mid-damage. But it still puts into perspective the scale of reaction at this level and mach 3 being beans especially with the feats preceding this one.

You guys amaze me saying "Hikari could only slightly react" and using a calc where he's almost 4x faster as support.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well so far, the calcs that are not contested are:
1. Maki bullet calc
2. Sukuna's calc

And which? Did I miss any?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Electricity*

This is called a simile, a type of figurative language used to compare one thing to another.

What do you think Lightning is?

And no, it's literally being compared to lightning and specifically in the context of it being unavoidable. Right after a description that is exactly how lightning works. Try again.

It's comparing itself to the Domain's sure hit function. Lightning usually doesn't miss its target, since not that many people are faster than lightning or can react to it well.
With that in mind, I don't think we've ever seen someone in the series fully dodge lightning without getting tagged, which supports its domain similarities.

Ok? None of this proves that his charges aren't comparable to lightning. Like I said, this would actually be supporting evidence given the context is about it's speed being compared to natural lightning.

You guys amaze me saying "Hikari could only slightly react" and using a calc where he's almost 4x faster as support.

Why are you acting like this isn't every single feat like this? Authors don't typically know the nuances of speed...hence they think a character reacting when a projectile is close to them means "they were fast enough to dodge barely." without realizing the implications of the speed.

So if that's your point here then we need to go lambast several dozens to hundreds of calcs.

Also, Gege drew it my guy, and by your logic he is el capitan.

 

[Cyberblader90]

hakari's thing has an issue that hasnt been pointed out. using lightning speed certainly makes it a narrative outlier because Kashimo and Base Hakari keep up with each other in speed. His bonus makes him faster over time, but he only outspeeds kashimo late in the fight, well after his lightning feat.

This creates the following issue: Base hakari would scale to the lightning feat through kashimo. Why would base hakari being hundreds of times faster than the zenin clan make any sense? Naobito's speed hype would have included the time hakari was still a student and hakari has lore hype of being relative to yuta.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Well so far, the calcs that are not contested are:
1. Maki bullet calc
2. Sukuna's calc

And which? Did I miss any?

Kenjaku feat needs to be calced.

Megumi feat needs to be calced.

Gojo feat needs to be calced.

Everything is else is accepted or under contention.

 

[KingTempest]

What?

Yes...They are both raw and can take out the Zenin clan...Because they have the same buffs and utilized said physical stats to accomplish the "rawness" and "extermination" you speak of. This is such a blatant non-argument I really don't need the feel to tackle it.

Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali can both beat up a classroom full of children.
Are they both equally strong now because they have the exact same physical feats?

Which you've refused to do for several posts now. Counter the distance argument.

Okay then, so here's a question that will sum everything up.

Where is Naoya when he hits Mach 3 and decides to dive at Maki?

 

[Chariot190]

No I didn't? I told you to use the mach 3 speed of Naoya and 100m to calc Maki's lack of reaction.

we just went over several feats where you outlined people being able to dodge things despite being slower pending on the distance.

Maki could not react to Naoya from said distance despite the top speed being mach 3.

Therefore Mach 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maki and thus anyone slower than her.

Which is the point of bringing up all of these subsonic-hypersonic calcs.

For reference, if it was 100m away, and moving at mach 3. That gives a timeframe of 0.0971817 seconds, which is only peak human reaction time according to the reaction page (0.1 - 0.08).

 

[KingTempest]

Kenjaku feat needs to be calced.

The sniper feat can't be calced

 

[KingTempest]

For reference, if it was 100m away, and moving at mach 3. That gives a timeframe of 0.0971817 seconds, which is only peak human reaction time according to the reaction page (0.1 - 0.08).

oh yeahhh, my bad, did 1029 / 100 instead of 100 / 1029

 

[Arkenis]

Kenjaku feat needs to be calced.

Even if calced, that would be similar to what young geto did and the feat is so much more worse cuz of the massive distance between them. You are grasping at straws.

 

[Cyberblader90]

hakari's thing has an issue that hasnt been pointed out. using lightning speed certainly makes it a narrative outlier because Kashimo and Base Hakari keep up with each other in speed. His bonus makes him faster over time, but he only outspeeds kashimo late in the fight, well after his lightning feat.

This creates the following issue: Base hakari would scale to the lightning feat through kashimo. Why would base hakari being hundreds of times faster than the zenin clan make any sense? Naobito's speed hype would have included the time hakari was still a student and hakari has lore hype of being relative to yuta.

.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Kenjaku feat needs to be calced.

Why?

Megumi feat needs to be calced.

Which of it?

Gojo feat needs to be calced.

Which one?

 

[KingTempest]

Megumi aimdodged the explosion, that isn't a calcable feat since he left before the explosion went off

 

[Arkenis]

Which one?

Believe his Jogo one. Chapter 15

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali can both beat up a classroom full of children.
Are they both equally strong now because they have the exact same physical feats?

False equivocation.

Maki and Toji were compared directly by people who knew of Toji's physical capabilities. So the comparison in the story is directly related to their physical capabilities. Which would mean Maki is easily comparable to Toji. Not sure what you're missing here.

Okay then, so here's a question that will sum everything up.

Where is Naoya when he hits Mach 3 and decides to dive at Maki?

Ai already gave you the distance timeline. Distance from this panel + length of this lake = your distance low balled. he blitzes Maki as soon as he builds air from making the circles, and he exits from the middle of the circle meaning you don't subtract the arc of the circle from a distance (as once again he went vertically upward from the lake to begin his circles. )

 

[KingTempest]

Anyways Kenjaku's can't be calced and Megumi's can't be calced

Checking Gojo's

 

[Majinere566]

following

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Megumi aimdodged the explosion, that isn't a calcable feat since he left before the explosion went off

No he didn't. We clearly see the tooth is showing the signs of detonation that were consistently shown throughout the arc as the indicator and the panel prior to that we clearly see the cursed user say "rattle" to activate the explosion.

So no he did not "aimdodge" an explosion, especially since once again, he literally had to take several complex actions between him sitting their looking at the tooth detonate, and the explosion taking place.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Even if calced, that would be similar to what young geto did and the feat is so much more worse cuz of the massive distance between them. You are grasping at straws.

Please learn to read before replying to me again.

 

[Cyberblader90]

No he didn't. We clearly see the tooth is showing the signs of detonation that were consistently shown throughout the arc as the indicator and the panel prior to that we clearly see the cursed user say "rattle" to activate the explosion.

So no he did not "aimdodge" an explosion, especially since once again, he literally had to take several complex actions between him sitting their looking at the tooth detonate, and the explosion taking place.

 

[KingTempest]

No he didn't. We clearly see the tooth is showing the signs of detonation that were consistently shown throughout the arc as the indicator and the panel prior to that we clearly see the cursed user say "rattle" to activate the explosion.

The tooth didn't do anything at all except shake.
Idk what you're talking about at all. These are the 2 important pages.

They never say rattle. They never show any significant signs of detonation except them moving. They don't even show the explosion.

So no he did not "aimdodge" an explosion, especially since once again, he literally had to take several complex actions between him sitting their looking at the tooth detonate, and the explosion taking place.

They flat out said he got into the room before the explosion even went off.

Please learn to read before replying to me again.

Be respectful

 

[Arkenis]

Please learn to read before replying to me again.

You're grasping at straws. First it's the megumi explosion feat now Kenjaku.

 

[Shey]

hakari's thing has an issue that hasnt been pointed out. using lightning speed certainly makes it a narrative outlier because Kashimo and Base Hakari keep up with each other in speed. His bonus makes him faster over time, but he only outspeeds kashimo late in the fight, well after his lightning feat.

Eh, that is false a Casual Kashimo absolutely wrecks Base Hakari in H2H, he never gets a punch through while Kashimo lands every single blow on Hakari

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Read the panel.

Megumi is literally staring at the tooth as they begin to detonate. Unless you are saying that Megumi moved fast enough to turn around, pick up the girl, run to a door, open the door, and head inside, all before the explosion even moved a millimeter, than they are clearly referencing megumi outpacing the explosion.

However, if you want to say Megumi is MHS from this feat, be my guest.

 

[KingTempest]

Read the panel.

Megumi is literally staring at the tooth as they begin to detonate. Unless you are saying that Megumi moved fast enough to turn around, pick up the girl, run to a door, open the door, and head inside, all before the explosion even moved a millimeter, than they are clearly referencing megumi outpacing the explosion.

However, if you want to say Megumi is MHS from this feat, be my guest.

They didn't even detonate yet

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The tooth didn't do anything at all except shake.

Which is the indicator of the detonation occurring.

Idk what you're talking about at all. These are the 2 important pages.

They never say rattle. They never show any significant signs of detonation except them moving. They don't even show the explosion.

I'll give you the rattle part. But see above about the movement.

They flat out said he got into the room before the explosion even went off.

Before it hit him. This is the whole reason blondie knows what occurred while Regi doesn't as Regi too had to run into a room. Difference being regi was obviously coordinating with blondie.

 

[Arkenis]

LMAO. They rattle not detonate omg.

Here's when we see a denotation, yk when the light of the explosion is being release.
The teeth don't light up. GRASPING AT STRAWS

 

[Dr._whiteee]

They didn't even detonate yet

the black hash lines are indicating that the detonation is beginning.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

LMAO. They rattle not detonate omg.

Here's when we see a denotation, yk when the light of the explosion is being release.
The teeth don't light up. GRASPING AT STRAWS

Please see my above response to you.

 

[KingTempest]

Which is the indicator of the detonation occurring.

The detonation starting to happen*

I'll give you the rattle part. But see above about the movement.

The movement is weak evidence when we see no light or anything showing an explosion coming from it yet.

Before it hit him. This is the whole reason blondie knows what occurred while Regi doesn't as Regi too had to run into a room. Difference being regi was obviously coordinating with blondie.

It never says "before it hit him", it says "before the explosion", which means before the explosion happened.

 

[Majinere566]

LMAO. They rattle not detonate omg.

Here's when we see a denotation, yk when the light of the explosion is being release.
The teeth don't light up. GRASPING AT STRAWS

I mean to be fair "fwash" could imply detonation

and the hatches extending past megumi's collar could indicate light from the explosion

 

[KingTempest]

I mean to be fair "fwash" could imply detonation

and the hatches extending past megumi's collar could indicate light from the explosion

that's the first one

none of these signs except the lines are on the second one

 

[Majinere566]

that's the first one

none of these signs except the lines are on the second one

fair enough i guess but why is this even a point? it looks like he didn't even dodge the explosion or anything impressive

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The detonation starting to happen*

Yes, the detonation is the beginning of any explosion. Therefore if Megumi was still as the detonation was occurring...

The movement is weak evidence when we see no light or anything showing an explosion coming from it yet.

No it's not. It's literally the author's indication of detonation beginning. We see the same thing in the eyeball panel where you can see the eye ball falling without the lines, then we see the lines and the eyeball starting to deform indicating detonation.

It never says "before it hit him", it says "before the explosion", which means before the explosion happened.

Yes, I know what the words say. What I am saying is that Megumi was able to move the several meters before the explosion reached him.

Given that we know the detonation occurred as he was standing still, I am taking the more logical approach to these feat. If we take the statement in conjunction with what happened then Megumi is crazily faster than the explosion, which I don't believe is the case.

 

[Arkenis]

Please see my above response to you.

I've been reading your crappy arguments since the thread started, You are just blatantly ignoring the very obvious indictation of how Iori's objects explode. They are always shown flashing, and having a fwash with them, the teeth do not have that. You need to read instead of telling me I do.

I mean to be fair "fwash" could imply detonation

Yes that's my argument, you do not see this with the teeth he threw in the scan.

 

[Arkenis]

fair enough i guess but why is this even a point? it looks like he didn't even dodge the explosion or anything impressive

YEAH HE DIDNT DODGE. But dr white wants to ignore that.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i also just noticed reggies reaction to the blast

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I've been reading your crappy arguments since the thread started, You are just blatantly ignoring the very obvious indictation of how Iori's objects explode. They are always shown flashing, and having a fwash with them, the teeth do not have that. You need to read instead of telling me I do.

Yes that's my argument, you do not see this with the teeth he threw in the scan.

So basically because Gege didn't put the Fwwsh you think we can ignore the lines that blatantly indicate the explosion happened?

So I guess we're gonna ignore this scan to with the lines but no fwssh effect or projected light?