Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Giannysmag]

I must've missed that I always assumed it was just a white half of his whole suit or some shit

I actually thought the same for a while but i now know and i need to traumatize all of you too

 

[Woomica]

!?!?!?

 

[Giannysmag]

Boruto fans are funny

 

[Passersby]

Boruto fans are funny

shonen fans's opinion on what constitutes good and bad writing is usually worthless so they're not alone really

 

[PowerToScale]

..there is no lightning nor light speed bits, i can maybe see the god tiers being the double digit mach range but even then the gojo vs sukuna fight had multiple timers in the seconds where they didn't cross the entire planet back to back got to the moon fought there for a bit came back exchanged billions of blows statue gravity and be invinsible to everyone(example being he 41 second timeframe in Chapter 235 where they're showed only throwing around like a couple dozen blows at most and reacting to Red before it reaches its target, no matter how you twist it, that fight cannot be happening in reltavisitc or massively hypersonic velocities) nothing in jjk supports that notion

LS anything in jjk or even lightning timing isn't exactly supported by much of anything, the power scalers usually just blow the stats out of proportions without understanding the implications the speed would have for the acual scenes, from what i remember of the fight it wasn't a constant blur of ungodly relativistic velocities, even the fact that Gojo's Red was able to loop around and strike sukuna in the same position indicates that Sukuna is standing in the same place for an amount of time not measured in the nanoseconds and the fact that gojo only manages to land one blow on Sukuna and then fails to follow it up in the 10 seconds of exposure to UV before Mahoraga emerges and shatters his domain also says a lot

as i said, i can see the god tiers being hyperonic, double digit mach? maybe

lightning timing and above is a hell no

edit: fixed some typos

yeah no, characters in the series have undoubtedly perceived, reacted and dodged lightning in the series, its more iffy with the EM waves. Characters have shown to be lightning timers in the series, now if you think Gege adding that is inconsistent to your own scaling then so be it whatever. Characters do not have to do the most absurd stuff to have those ratings (crossing the planet or flying to the moon) and no fight in shonen is 100% accurate with distance travelled compared to their fighting speed. Otherwise nothing is legit.

The idea isn't supported is also wrong as gege has clearly identified characters fighting with and as mentioned react/dodging lightning, even getting a science advisor to make it accurate lightning, its fine to say it you don't accept part of your own scaling but it wrong to speak as if the series doesn't involve it. your subjective scaling doesn't represent the series.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Boruto fans are funny

That art actually makes my eyes wanna fall out of my skull. Even DS has better art than this.

 

[Rosa]

The 5% is an example, but I doubt the average person thinks Gojo’s physicals without blue are stronger than Rika or Yuki Tsukumo

The point is the stat gaps aren’t where it’s at

You appeal a lot to what the "average person" or "normal person" would think when watching JJK when:
a) what the audience interpret isn't necessarily what's accurate
b) you have no metric to quantify what the general audience perspective is outside of your own perspective
c) you're attempting to construct a powerscaling argument by saying we ought to reject powerscaling perspectives, inherently discrediting yourself

The average person likely isn't going to look at Gojo and think "ah yes, Mach 429.297194 speeds with blue enhancement" because the average person isn't too interested in trying to make precise measurements of power outside of "wow Gojo is really fast", but this doesn't mean that making those precise measurements is in some way dishonest (as you've claimed) or losing the meaning of the series, if anything the opposite is true. In the same way the average watcher of a movie isn't going to analyse the dynamics between the characters and be able to talk about their depth, simply thinking "wow, this is entertaining", whilst a media analyst would be capable of doing so - would we therefore say the media analyst is dishonestly losing the meaning of the series for the sake of some pre-determined agenda?

Powerscalers are interested in analysing a piece of media to measure the characters power in precise ways, so we construct calcs, analyse scaling chains, interpret statements, and so on to do so, that will inherently lead us to think things which the average watcher wouldn't have thought of. To start your powerscaling approach with "powerscaling is wrong, the average viewer is right, I am the average viewer, therefore I am right" is clownery. It's why you're incapable of answering any question people ask, incapable of analysing the particulars of matchups or in-series fights, incapable of addressing all the feats, instead all you can do is make broad and meaningless generalisations and false equivalences such as "Uro ~ Yuta, therefore the gap between Gojo and Mei Mei is like 5%". You're engaging in surface level "powerscaling bad" arguments we had to deal with back in 2016.

 

[Rosa]

Is there a way to do polls? Curious as to what the general consensus here is regarding Miguel's statement of comparing to no CT Gojo

 

[M3X_2.0]

Is there a way to do polls? Curious as to what the general consensus here is regarding Miguel's statement of comparing to no CT Gojo

Off-site only. Although I find it funny that people deliberately disregard canon statements just because they don’t like it.

 

[Arkenis]

Isn't that statement just about fighting style and Miguel being better in short term and not about physicals?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Boruto fans are funny

@Arkenis this you?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Isn't that statement just about fighting style and Miguel being better in short term and not about physicals?

No

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Miguel was relative to Gojo albeit weaker (this is regarding without CT for both). Even though JJK0 came out before main series the plot hasn't changed anything Gege does trying to say Miguel physicals are around Gojos level but I think this is only applies to JJK0 Gojo not current Gojo. Current Gojo > Miguel.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Miguel was relative to Gojo albeit weaker (this is regarding without CT for both). Even though JJK0 came out before main series the plot hasn't changed anything Gege does trying to say Miguel physicals are around Gojos level but I think this is only applies to JJK0 Gojo not current Gojo. Current Gojo > Miguel.

Gojo made that statement when he was visiting Yuta in Africa so he still thinks that even on that period of time.

 

[Passersby]

yeah no, characters in the series have undoubtedly perceived, reacted and dodged lightning in the series, its more iffy with the EM waves. Characters have shown to be lightning timers in the series,

in your own headcanon,maybe, what gege did implement however, is explicit timiframes and speed values that are nowhere near what you want them to be, if you want to claim that gege's intention with kashimo's lightning was for it to have actual lightning speed (90km/s+), sure ig, but that's only your headcanon and you have zero evidence in series for that to be the case, but what is undeniable is the fact that we see characters visibly not moving in whatever ungodly speed you want them to be at because we have actual explicit time frames the author gave us where the characters move in quantifiable distance that never breaches the single digit mach range even being generous

now if you think Gege adding that is inconsistent to your own scaling then so be it whatever

show me the instance where gege stated that the lightning is as fast as irl lightning rather than that conclusion being reached by a bunch of nerds in the internet and i'll concede that you're right

Characters do not have to do the most absurd stuff to have those ratings (crossing the planet or flying to the moon)

usually they do, yes, and even if i concede that this is right, that still doesn't support the MHS jjk argument because the anti feats consist of explicit author provded time frames and quantifiable distances crossed in said time frame while all the feats that support triple digit jjk scaling consist of is the fans's headcanon of a lightning based cursed technique being as fast as irl lightning, had such obvious and non negiotiable anti feats not been a thing you'd have a point, but they do, so you don't

and no fight in shonen is 100% accurate with distance travelled compared to their fighting speed

because powerscalers suck and authors sometimes don't care enough and just want to sound cool, that's usually why, in case of jjk, gege is a talented author, he knows what he is doing, you really just want to ignore the multiple instances where characters have not and without the shadow of a doubt been moving at whatever speed you want to have them at

if gojo was legit mach 500 the multiple time frames provided across the gojo vs sukuna fight will cease to make sens, you're breaking and ruining the plot for the sake of whatever scaling you want the characters to have even when they don't

The idea isn't supported is also wrong as gege has clearly identified characters fighting with and as mentioned react/dodging lightning, even getting a science advisor to make it accurate lightning

without providing evidence that he implemented said lightning to be 90km/s in the story the explicit time frames provided are a far more reliable method of judging the characters's stats because those don't require any assumptions, because really, all you're doing is assuming the lightning to be that fast despite every other speed showing telling to your face that it's not


it would have been inconsistent if gege straight up told us the exact speed of the lightning/the lightning was from the sky, but it's not, it's the byproduct of a cursed technique so it's speed is largely unkown, but the scenes and speed showings in the series put an upper limit of how fast it can get, which is not much lol

your subjective scaling doesn't represent the series.

....you mean objective, do you see any assumptions in my post?

spot them, all i did is purely analyze the scenes and fights without providing any assumption of what could be or could not be a certain way, the information in it is objective and undisputable while your logic is shaky at best

kashimo's lightning not being 90km/s fixes the "inconsistencies" (they shouldn't even exist), if anything they'd effectively be gone

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Gojo made that statement when he was visiting Yuta in Africa so he still thinks that even on that period of time.

I think that was when he sent Yuta to train with Miguel. So it was around JJK0 Time period.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I think that was when he sent Yuta to train with Miguel. So it was around JJK0 Time period.

Gojo sent him to train after the Kyoto event of that year iirc, it took Yuta 3 months to get his Special Grade back and only after that he went to Africa I think. And that visit could’ve been like in the end or in the middle.

We know of two visits at least: One when Gojo tasked Yuta to protect his students and another when he made that statement about Miguel. Could be the same trip though who knows.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Gojo sent him to train after the Kyoto event of that year iirc, it took Yuta 3 months to get his Special Grade back and only after that he went to Africa I think. And that visit could’ve been like in the end or in the middle.

The fact Yuta didn't know Miguel strength indicates Gojo was talking about Miguel to Yuta before the training started.

We know of two visits at least: One when Gojo tasked Yuta to protect his students and another when he made that statement about Miguel. Could be the same trip though who knows.

When Gojo requested Yuta to protect the students Miguel hasn't met Gojo (Miguel turned him down) also we can see him being in his Uniform but the chapter where Gojo visits Miguel seems like casual dress.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The fact Yuta didn't know Miguel strength indicates Gojo was talking about Miguel to Yuta before the training started.

Not really, zero correlation with Yuta knowing Miguel’s strength and the period of the training.

It’s stated that this “training” was more like a search for another rope.

When Gojo requested Yuta to protect the students Miguel hasn't met Gojo (Miguel turned him down) also we can see him being in his Uniform but the chapter where Gojo visits Miguel seems like casual dress.

Yeah the Miguel refusing to meet him point is fine, but Gojo could've just changed clothes lol, he’s a weirdo but I think he’d bring different clothes.

 

[Rosa]

Isn't that statement just about fighting style and Miguel being better in short term and not about physicals?

I mean I go back and forth on it. Miguel technically doesn't have any anti-feats since he blitzed Sukuna in that short burst attack, but at the same time it's strange to think Miguel would be so cowardly as to run if he was actually that strong. The statement itself was structured in the context of a fight, suggesting it's about stats, but the actual answer itself was reference concepts in martial arts so maybe not...? Idk.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Follow their thread:

 

[Ped2018]

Kratos is arguably the most wanked character in this site and I'm not joking. How can you play God Of War 2018 and Ragnarok and tell me with a straight face that Kratos has Tier 2 AP when I just witnessed his ass getting damaged by an arrow.

I can accept reading dumb shit from Reddit users... but you???

here is the gospel of truth

Shit has been debunked over 100 times by now man... please stop

 

[M3X_2.0]

I can accept reading dumb shit from Reddit users... but you???

LMFAOOOO

 

[Ped2018]

You were my goat

 

[M3X_2.0]

I have to keep pushing my anti-GoW agenda..

 

[Ped2018]

I will start my anti-Jojo agenda then

 

[M3X_2.0]

hey @Chariot190 come here

 

[Ped2018]

Thank god you are just a blue name peasant now

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Gojo sent him to train after the Kyoto event of that year iirc, it took Yuta 3 months to get his Special Grade back and only after that he went to Africa I think. And that visit could’ve been like in the end or in the middle.

The Goodwill Event is an annual occurrence. We see it take place in 2018. The previous one took place in 2017. That's when Yuta stomped the Kyoto roster. At an unknown point in time after JJK 0, he was sent to Africa to train

 

[M3X_2.0]

Thank god you are just a blue name peasant now

Unfortunately for you I have his Discord

 

[M3X_2.0]

The Goodwill Event is an annual occurrence. We see it take place in 2018. The previous one took place in 2017. That's when Yuta stomped the Kyoto roster. At an unknown point in time after JJK 0, he was sent to Africa to train

Yeah I said that

 

[Giannysmag]

hey @Chariot190 come here

Jojo's caps at 9-A and LS

 

[M3X_2.0]

Jojo's caps at 9-A and LS

Oh shit way better than JJK

 

[JnSteHar002]

I mean I go back and forth on it. Miguel technically doesn't have any anti-feats since he blitzed Sukuna in that short burst attack, but at the same time it's strange to think Miguel would be so cowardly as to run if he was actually that strong. The statement itself was structured in the context of a fight, suggesting it's about stats, but the actual answer itself was reference concepts in martial arts so maybe not...? Idk.

I posted something about this w/Gojo in that instance. Even if they are comparable, in terms of physical capabilities, Sukuna has a bunch of other OP Hax abilities that Miguel just cannot counter. I remember Miguel saying he'd be willing to fight Sukuna at a time when his MS is off the table.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

a) what the audience interpret isn't necessarily what's accurate
b) you have no metric to quantify what the general audience perspective is outside of your own perspective
c) you're attempting to construct a powerscaling argument by saying we ought to reject powerscaling perspectives, inherently discrediting yourself

The average person likely isn't going to look at Gojo and think "ah yes, Mach 429.297194 speeds with blue enhancement" because the average person isn't too interested in trying to make precise measurements of power outside of "wow Gojo is really fast", but this doesn't mean that making those precise measurements is in some way dishonest (as you've claimed) or losing the meaning of the series, if anything the opposite is true. In the same way the average watcher of a movie isn't going to analyse the dynamics between the characters and be able to talk about their depth, simply thinking "wow, this is entertaining", whilst a media analyst would be capable of doing so - would we therefore say the media analyst is dishonestly losing the meaning of the series for the sake of some pre-determined agenda?

Powerscalers are interested in analysing a piece of media to measure the characters power in precise ways, so we construct calcs, analyse scaling chains, interpret statements, and so on to do so, that will inherently lead us to think things which the average watcher wouldn't have thought of. To start your powerscaling approach with "powerscaling is wrong, the average viewer is right, I am the average viewer, therefore I am right" is clownery. It's why you're incapable of answering any question people ask, incapable of analysing the particulars of matchups or in-series fights, incapable of addressing all the feats, instead all you can do is make broad and meaningless generalisations and false equivalences such as "Uro ~ Yuta, therefore the gap between Gojo and Mei Mei is like 5%". You're engaging in surface level "powerscaling bad" arguments we had to deal with back in 2016.

You're misunderstanding that 5% argument. The entire point is that making that marginal increase is incredibly hard eventhough it's just a tiny 5% marginal increase.

I maintain it's the same between someone like Gojo and Yuta.

Yuta is strong enough to take punches from Gojo with no blue, and he can even take punches from Ryu, though they hurt a lot, but regardless my position is it's not a one-shot level gap. It's the reason why 80% of Sukuna (at worst) can't deal lethal blows to Ryu without cleave, despite 100% Sukuna being Gojo level.

The scaling chain would be something like:

Yuta ~< Ryu (albeit Ryu is definitively stronger) >~ 80% Sukuna

Yuta ~< 80% Sukuna (in raw punches) ~< Ryu ~< 100% Sukuna ~ Gojo
and this is also while not considering the Ryu > 100% Sukuna via the greatest output in history shit.

So the gap between Yuta and Gojo isn't that huge in terms of numbers, but it makes all the difference because canonically you need to sacrifice everything in order to reach that level.

More stuff supporting it would be the narrative with Yuta surpassing Gojo. Yuta wouldn't train Rika to grow in AP 100x to grow to Gojo level, but rather Rika is already at that level of physicality and Yuta needs to polish other aspects to grow as a sorcerer

 

[Giannysmag]

Yuta ~< 80% Sukuna (in raw punches) ~< Ryu ~< 100% Sukuna ~ Gojo

Peak

People don't seem to understand how insane of a feat Gojo tanking MS is for his physicals

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Yeah I said that

The Goodwill Event of 2017 would logically have taken place before the Night Parade because Yuta still had Curse Rika.

You said Yuta was sent to Africa after the Goodwill Event. That's technically true, but also understating it.

TL;DR I'm being pedantic

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

People don't seem to understand how insane of a feat Gojo tanking MS is for his physicals

People overstate how much Blue matters for Gojo's physicals

 

[Giannysmag]

People overstate how much Blue matters for Gojo's physicals

fr man was boxing with 20F Sukuna without his CT while constantly getting cut by shrine

 

[Passersby]

Shit has been debunked over 100 times by now man... please stop

nah....also i have no idea when or how you can debunk an event that happened but i'll take your word for it, ig the universal kratos can be harmed by arrows and falling debris