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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Right. The chapter after that, Sukuna got 5 spread pages hyping him up, opened the Domain and prepared Divine Flame.

The next one after that Sukuna killed Choso.

Then in the next one no one really commented about their beatdown on Sukuna because of that last page.

Now he got sidelined again in the latest chapter, iirc he appeared in the first two pages and vanished.

Can’t really say he is treated as the main character in the manga that’s supposedly his. If you ask me Sukuna is clearly the main character.
 
What you're describing is the ebb and flow of an intense and fast paced battle. No one should have to comment on Yuji's combo because that's that's self evident for the viewer and Sukuna after getting his ass kicked for an entire chapter narratively took back his turn before things got even worse for him.

Yuji not being the center of attention for three chapters isn't him not being the main character that's him allowing his supporting cast to step up and show out as well. Especially since this isn't and hasn't been a solo fight since Kashimo died.

Sukuna is a final villain and the main villain so he gets the attention one expects of one. He's not unique in this regard for really any piece of fiction, but especially Shonen
 
I'm not gonna lie how do y'all even take this manga seriously in terms of storytelling anymore. It's hilariously bad right now.
 
I'm not gonna lie how do y'all even take this manga seriously in terms of storytelling anymore. It's hilariously bad right now.
Has always been bad with some great moments just like any battle shounen. I hardly take any manga seriously to be honest. The last manga I took seriously was JoJolion which is great.

The biggest red flags to me are the pointless deaths like Nobara’s and Yuki’s. Cannot take the Mahito fight seriously anymore after Nobara dying. What was the point? Nanami’s death was way more impactful, emotional and relevant than hers. His death was enough to make a greater impact on Yuji and the fight that was going to happen after that.

I think JJK’s strength are the fights. I like how Gege uses a very limited but creative powersystem, and I like his artstyle despite not being anything impressive.
 
I somehow was able to predict Yuta eating Kenjaku and taking over Gojo's body three months ago, which is like the only decent think I predicted correctly.

It is said that Gokkotsu now has a countermeasure for Sukuna's borderless domain, further evidenced by him actually going a domain clash with him.

I wonder what the countermeasure is, my prediction could be that since Gokkotsu ate Kenjaku's brain(?) he may have acquired his memories as well and figured out how to use a borderless domain, especially considering he's already good at the barrier techniques, making this a clash of two borderless domains
 
Now if you want to know about the current chapter, I mean, as a Yuta glazer I love it but even then I think it’s just too much. Like it seems that I wrote this chapter.
 
I somehow was able to predict Yuta eating Kenjaku and taking over Gojo's body three months ago, which is like the only decent think I predicted correctly.

It is said that Gokkotsu now has a countermeasure for Sukuna's borderless domain, further evidenced by him actually going a domain clash with him.

I wonder what the countermeasure is, my prediction could be that since Gokkotsu ate Kenjaku's brain(?) he may have acquired his memories as well and figured out how to use a borderless domain, especially considering he's already good at the barrier techniques, making this a clash of two borderless domains
Yuta seems to be a prodigy when it comes to barriers, not gonna lie. He got his Domain way too early considering that most sorcerers don’t even get one, and managed to close the barriers. He can move his Domain and select the targets of the sure-hit, something not even Gojo or Sukuna could do.

I think he knows how to counter because he watched the fight against Gojo.
 
I study writing that's how. Gege is a literarily competent writer
I am a writer and I also study writing. Gege is definitely a "competent" writer for the work he's done on the series overall, particularly in earlier arcs like Shibuya and coming up with the story and concept in general, but I think it's quite absurd to say the story is currently going in a good direction.

There are multiple problems atm.

A big one is that the Sukuna fight was and is horrendously drawn out and repetitive. Quite a few chapters followed the same structure of throwing someone at Sukuna, giving them the spotlight for a couple panels, and then ultimately having Sukuna come out on top - ending with a cliff hanger for the next guy. Rinse and repeat. It just resulted in this waiting game for the meaningful characters to come out and do something. It's pretty boring. Not to mention, the fact that this is just all fights leads the audience to not care about any of the less important characters whatsoever beyond their powers and skills.

Everything since the Gojo fight up to this point has been extremely predictable and quite meaningless lol.

Also, regarding protagonists and Yuji. The best protagonists (at least in my eyes, though I think most people would agree) are proactive protagonists that drive the story with their actions. Yuji isn't that at all. Yuji is a reactive protagonist who responds to things other people do, which definitely isn't bad inherently, but we barely even get to see him react to anything right now because it seems there's always someone else in the spotlight - often someone the audience really doesn't care about, mind you. Really it does lead to Yuji feeling a little... minor? It's quite obtuse.
 
Don't forget to mark spoilers.

[SPOILERS]
I think Yuta's domain skills are partially to blame on Hakari, and what he's doing with Gojo now is partially because of Gojo’s body. The soul swapping was cheating and now Six Eyes combined with the skills trained into Gojo’s body does the heavy lifting he'd otherwise have to do.

Not to say he isn't a prodigy because he is, just that he has more than just watching the gojo fight to figure things out.

Also, I think Yuta might’ve revealed that Kenjaku's domain might’ve been Geto's, just without a barrier since Yuta is able to do Gojo’s. Though probably not too likely
[SPOILERS/]
 
Yuta seems to be a prodigy when it comes to barriers, not gonna lie. He got his Domain way too early considering that most sorcerers don’t even get one, and managed to close the barriers. He can move his Domain and select the targets of the sure-hit, something not even Gojo or Sukuna could do.

I think he knows how to counter because he watched the fight against Gojo.
Agreed. I think Satoru himself didn't have a Domain when he was the same age as Yuta (17), meaning Yuta may possibly be a greater prodigy than he was, which was offset by Satoru having Six Eyes that made him so good at CE control and efficiency and made Limitless so busted. Now, in his body, Yuta/Gokkotsu also has access to what made a difference between the two.


True, he knows how that fight went and he wouldn't show up like this without a counter against it, I was just saying counter might be a borderless domain of his own. Not much of a stretch given he's already good at barrier techniques + may have gained access to Kenjaku's memories. He can also restrict sure-hit to Sukuna only so Yuji and Todo are safe from UV probably
 
Agreed. I think Satoru himself didn't have a Domain when he was the same age as Yuta (17), meaning Yuta may possibly be a greater prodigy than he was, which was offset by Satoru having Six Eyes that made him so good at CE control and efficiency and made Limitless so busted.
Indeed he did not. He was still working on it even after the Toji fight. Yuta is overall a more complete and realized sorcerer than Gojo was at the same age.
Now, in his body, Yuta/Gokkotsu also has access to what made a difference between the two.
Yeah, I actually want to see how strong Yuta gets when he has the same advantage Satoru had over everyone. I believe Six Eyes is everything Yuta ever needed to close the gap against the top 2.
True, he knows how that fight went and he wouldn't show up like this without a counter against it, I was just saying counter might be a borderless domain of his own. Not much of a stretch given he's already good at barrier techniques + may have gained access to Kenjaku's memories. He can also restrict sure-hit to Sukuna only so Yuji and Todo are safe from UV probably
Gege didn’t make Yuta narrate half of the fight and give insights about some stuff for nothing. The usage of RCT to heal the CT burnout is something he realized before everyone and may actually try it, so by the same logic he should also have a better understanding about Malevolent Shrine and counter it. Be it by making Unlimited Void barrierless or busting the shrine inside the MS.
 
I am a writer and I also study writing. Gege is definitely a "competent" writer for the work he's done on the series overall, particularly in earlier arcs like Shibuya and coming up with the story and concept in general, but I think it's quite absurd to say the story is currently going in a good direction.
As a writer myself, I can agree that from the peaks that JJK isn't "mindless", but right now? It's kinda dogass.
There are multiple problems atm.

A big one is that the Sukuna fight was and is horrendously drawn out and repetitive. Quite a few chapters followed the same structure of throwing someone at Sukuna, giving them the spotlight for a couple panels, and then ultimately having Sukuna come out on top - ending with a cliff hanger for the next guy. Rinse and repeat. It just resulted in this waiting game for the meaningful characters to come out and do something. It's pretty boring. Not to mention, the fact that this is just all fights leads the audience to not care about any of the less important characters whatsoever beyond their powers and skills.
A lot of new-gen writers have this issue, you know Deku vs Shigaraki? That's still going on right now. Shit makes Namek feel short.
Everything since the Gojo fight up to this point has been extremely predictable and quite meaningless lol.
The only good twist was the one of Sukuna being Yuji's uncle but even then it didn't really shock me.
Also, regarding protagonists and Yuji. The best protagonists (at least in my eyes, though I think most people would agree) are proactive protagonists that drive the story with their actions. Yuji isn't that at all. Yuji is a reactive protagonist who responds to things other people do, which definitely isn't bad inherently, but we barely even get to see him react to anything right now because it seems there's always someone else in the spotlight - often someone the audience really doesn't care about, mind you. Really it does lead to Yuji feeling a little... minor? It's quite obtuse.
Agreed as well. Yuji feels like a polar opposite to how Ichigo plays out since Ichigo's influence in Bleach is MASSIVE, even when other characters have their moments, when he takes center stage, you know he's HIM. His theme is literally called Number One

Reactive protagionists kinda get boring because you have the jokes about "X character isn't the main character, X character is." And it gets pretty annoying when everyone has their moments that drive the story but the MC has to play catchup. Even when Ichigo wasn't directly involved in FKT, he was fighting Ulquiorra, and that fight on it's own was absolutely peak, straight up one of the best in animanga. Meanwhile Yuji is MIA doing f all except vague offscreen training to finish off the main villan after he got weaker
 
 Snip
Most definitely a matter of taste here. Like sure you don't like it but that doesn't make any of what you're asserting as your opinion as the common truth. Like when I say Gege is competent literary I don't mean it in the sense that I'm enjoyong all of this, i mean so in the sense that Gege understands his own story and keeps showing it.

This entire final arc has time and time again called back to and built off of ,any big and at the time small details to work itself out. There is a clear attention to detail that reveals that either the outline of all of this was created and paid attention to or that Gege knows how to improvise and then integrate his improv to make it feel whole. (Oda is the best current mangaka example of the latter)

Many chekhov guns primed in the series have been fired since the start of the series.

Economic storytelling by rolling plotpoints and lines into one another organically to help reign things in. Also in cutting down on excessive downtime.

Also a good grasp of writing tropes and an understanding in how to invert them for your own purpose.

JJK knows what story it is. And Gege knows what the story is. And Gege gives plenty of details to understand it.

Whether or not we understand that isn't as important. Because we're not all the right readers for it. And we won't always be the right readers for it. Because JJK doesn't really change to accommodate readers. There's more focus on the work as art than as entertainment.

Entertainment wise, I can definitely agree it rises and drops but that isn't a matter of it being poorly written. That's a matter of it not always fitting my personal taste. Which is what most of the complaints you or many others levied come down to.
 
A big one is that the Sukuna fight was and is horrendously drawn out and repetitive. Quite a few chapters followed the same structure of throwing someone at Sukuna, giving them the spotlight for a couple panels, and then ultimately having Sukuna come out on top - ending with a cliff hanger for the next guy. Rinse and repeat.
This is only true if you strip away all of the nuances, character writing, and story building between each interaction whilst also further ignoring the gradual successes in working towards their end goal. The Gojo fight was constantly introducing new elements with Gojo and Sukuna respectively gaining wins over the other, then Kashimo's fight which I will admit is the weakest amongst the fights thus far but even in there we get to see Sukuna forced into his true form and character building for both characters (good character building), then Higuruma removed Sukuna's CT before also concluding his own character arc which has been gradually progressing, then Yuta came in and progressed the fight by a wide margin with him then outsmarting Sukuna in the final moments to allow Maki to rush in, who also made progress, then Kusakabe was able to stall with his own vital character moments, etc. The only shared quality here is that characters come in after each other, which isn't "repetitive" if each character is bringing something completely unique to the table not just in how they weaken Sukuna but in how they also demonstrate their own character development and unravel the themes of this battle. The fight has also only been less than 40 chapters (including Gojo vs Sukuna) which isn't that long for a Shonen fight in the final climatic arc.
It just resulted in this waiting game for the meaningful characters to come out and do something. It's pretty boring. Not to mention, the fact that this is just all fights leads the audience to not care about any of the less important characters whatsoever beyond their powers and skills.
This also isn't true. In powerscaling communities like this there's obviously going to be a hyper fixation on the scaling aspect, but literally branch out into any other platform and you'll see otherwise with Gege dedicating entire chapters to the exploration of these characters.
Everything since the Gojo fight up to this point has been extremely predictable and quite meaningless lol.
Predicable yet who's predicting the events of the next chapter? There's obvious niche cases like the one Japanese fan who went viral for predicting Todo is going to use a vibraslap due to the specific and unique sound effect, but by in large the community hasn't been effectively predicting anything besides minor W's. The closest thing so far was the theory of Yuta inheriting the six eyes being validated, but even then no one suspected it would be done like this with these sort of draw backs.
Also, regarding protagonists and Yuji. The best protagonists (at least in my eyes, though I think most people would agree) are proactive protagonists that drive the story with their actions. Yuji isn't that at all. Yuji is a reactive protagonist who responds to things other people do, which definitely isn't bad inherently, but we barely even get to see him react to anything right now because it seems there's always someone else in the spotlight - often someone the audience really doesn't care about, mind you. Really it does lead to Yuji feeling a little... minor? It's quite obtuse.
Please reread this arc. The only time Yuji wasn't the focus was during Gojo and Kashimo's battle, but let's focus on everything preceding. Yuji was the one responsible for weakening Sukuna massively, it was Yuji who Sukuna was focusing his hatred on, it was Yuji who was ideologically challenging and getting in the head of Sukuna (something no else has done), with Yuta literally only surviving in the domain fight due to the soul weakening done by Yuji, then Yuji quickly awakens and begins to outshine everyone with him pressing Sukuna beyond what anyone else could. You're saying Yuta overshadowed Yuji this chapter, but this chapter was literally almost solely a flash back with no combat, Yuji will be vital next chapter too. Yuji has been the focus this entire war, you're blind if you can't see that as Gege has dedicated several chapters worth of characters commenting on that fact.
 
I just want to point out how big the double standard is against JJK too. Literally any war arc in shonen is given a length battle sequence, with varying characters jumping in at certain times, side characters having pivotal roles, the villain dominating, but when Gege does it suddenly it's "repetitive", "stretched out", "mindless". Ya'll need to just drop the series, it's obvious nothing Gege could do will satisfy anyone of you - this is also coming from someone who didn't even like this chapter and thinks it was a weak plot twist.
 
I just want to point out how big the double standard is against JJK too. Literally any war arc in shonen is given a length battle sequence, with varying characters jumping in at certain times, side characters having pivotal roles, the villain dominating, but when Gege does it suddenly it's "repetitive", "stretched out", "mindless". Ya'll need to just drop the series, it's obvious nothing Gege could do will satisfy anyone of you - this is also coming from someone who didn't even like this chapter and thinks it was a weak plot twist.
We hated Naruto's war arc for this very reason, JJK isn't special. Also, this isn't much of a "war arc" more like a raid boss. I feel as if it's gonna end the same way too with Tengen still being a mystery, but hopefully Gege read up on that mistake of Kishimoto and will avoid going that route
 
Naruto spoilers:

People who think the Sukuna fight is dragged out, imagine what we had to go through to see Madara defeated. Madara fought a sizeable portion of the Shinobi Alliance (Temari, Naruto, Gaara, Oonoki), then the five Kage (Gaara, Oonoki, Ay, Mei, Tsunade), then against Naruto, Killer B, Guy and Kakashi, then the rest of the Shinobi Alliance showed up to fight him, then Hashirama showed up to fight him, then he got revived, fought Sasuke, Tobirama and all nine Tailed Beasts, powered up further, then he fought Minato, Obito, 8th Gate Guy, then Naruto and Sasuke showed back up again and fought him alongside Kakashi and Sakura. And finally even Black Zetsu showed up to fight him.

All in all, Madara must have fought like over thirty named characters, sometimes multiple times over the course of the battle, over a period of a hundred chapters.
 
As a writer myself, I can agree that from the peaks that JJK isn't "mindless", but right now? It's kinda dogass.

A lot of new-gen writers have this issue, you know Deku vs Shigaraki? That's still going on right now. Shit makes Namek feel short.

I do believe Namek Saga and this final war in MHA are about the same amount of chapters
 
Naruto spoilers:

People who think the Sukuna fight is dragged out, imagine what we had to go through to see Madara defeated. Madara fought a sizeable portion of the Shinobi Alliance (Temari, Naruto, Gaara, Oonoki), then the five Kage (Gaara, Oonoki, Ay, Mei, Tsunade), then against Naruto, Killer B, Guy and Kakashi, then the rest of the Shinobi Alliance showed up to fight him, then Hashirama showed up to fight him, then he got revived, fought Sasuke, Tobirama and all nine Tailed Beasts, powered up further, then he fought Minato, Obito, 8th Gate Guy, then Naruto and Sasuke showed back up again and fought him alongside Kakashi and Sakura. And finally even Black Zetsu showed up to fight him.

All in all, Madara must have fought like over thirty named characters, sometimes multiple times over the course of the battle, over a period of a hundred chapters.
all that just to get killed by Kaguya, a character that was poorly foreshadowed and killed all the hype. It's like the Final Fantasy disease where some games cough 10 cough cough has a final boss completely unrelated to the story.
 
I do believe Namek Saga and this final war in MHA are about the same amount of chapters
At least Namek ended lol. The war arc is still happening now (at least it's slowing down from what I've seen, I don't follow MHA)

Also not sugarcoating it, Namek didn't need to be that long, 5 minutes my ass Frieza
 
Naruto spoilers:

People who think the Sukuna fight is dragged out, imagine what we had to go through to see Madara defeated. Madara fought a sizeable portion of the Shinobi Alliance (Temari, Naruto, Gaara, Oonoki), then the five Kage (Gaara, Oonoki, Ay, Mei, Tsunade), then against Naruto, Killer B, Guy and Kakashi, then the rest of the Shinobi Alliance showed up to fight him, then Hashirama showed up to fight him, then he got revived, fought Sasuke, Tobirama and all nine Tailed Beasts, powered up further, then he fought Minato, Obito, 8th Gate Guy, then Naruto and Sasuke showed back up again and fought him alongside Kakashi and Sakura. And finally even Black Zetsu showed up to fight him.

All in all, Madara must have fought like over thirty named characters, sometimes multiple times over the course of the battle, over a period of a hundred chapters.
While this is true, we still had a lot of different plots going on at the same time, and IIRC Kishimoto didn’t write the Madara fight in one go. We would occasionally switch to different PoVs in the war, different fights and actually some meaningful development like Sasuke’s meet with Itachi, their fight with Kabuto etc.

At one point Naruto had 3 big plots and fights:
  • Naruto, Kakashi, Bee and Guy Vs Obito and the 7 BijĹ«s
  • Madara Vs the 5 Kages
  • Itachi and Sasuke Vs Kabuto
As much as I don’t like the War Arc, it was handled much better than Shinjuku Showdown imo. And Madara had Obito for most of the time to share the villain spot. Sukuna is alone.
 
We hated Naruto's war arc for this very reason, JJK isn't special.
literally who has criticised Naruto's war arc in the same fashion? The animanga community almost unanimously praises Naruto's war arc and there's a reason it was a top seller of shonen jump, with the only wide scale criticism being Kaguya's introduction removing all of the weight (which which hasn't happened in JJK at all).
 
While this is true, we still had a lot of different plots going on at the same time, and IIRC Kishimoto didn’t write the Madara fight in one go. We would occasionally switch to different PoVs in the war, different fights and actually some meaningful development like Sasuke’s meet with Itachi, their fight with Kabuto etc.

At one point Naruto had 3 big plots and fights:
  • Naruto, Kakashi, Bee and Guy Vs Obito and the 7 BijĹ«s
  • Madara Vs the 5 Kages
  • Itachi and Sasuke Vs Kabuto
As much as I don’t like the War Arc, it was handled much better than Shinjuku Showdown imo. And Madara had Obito for most of the time to share the villain spot. Sukuna is alone.
We did also have Kenjaku as an interlude in the Sukuna fight at least. It hasn't been nonstop Sukuna since he and Gojo started fighting.
 
At least Namek ended lol. The war arc is still happening now (at least it's slowing down from what I've seen, I don't follow MHA)

Also not sugarcoating it, Namek didn't need to be that long, 5 minutes my ass Frieza
You definitely aren't following it because it's about ended since last week. The final fight between Shigi and Deku is also about 30 chapters, just like the final fight with Frieza.

And manga wise that's only eight chapters the five minutes bit

Edit: that is ignoring chapters in between away from the pair
 
We did also have Kenjaku as an interlude in the Sukuna fight at least. It hasn't been nonstop Sukuna since he and Gojo started fighting.
It just goes to show how having different plots to break the pacing a bit is good. Kenjaku Vs Takaba was necessary as **** given how cluttered the current story is in terms of repetition. A shame it lasted not that long. Uraume Vs Hakari could’ve been used to break the pace a little bit but I believe Gege regretted this fight lol.
 
literally who has criticised Naruto's war arc in the same fashion? The animanga community almost unanimously praises Naruto's war arc and there's a reason it was a top seller of shonen jump, with the only wide scale criticism being Kaguya's introduction removing all of the weight (which which hasn't happened in JJK at all).
I don't share that experience. Many people I've seen lambasted Naruto's war arc for being a mess pacing wise and how Kishimoto was writing himself into a corner (also for having Boruto pick up on said concept but that's for another day) I for one haven't touched Naruto in years since I finished it in 2021, and one of the reasons is the war arc. The only thing that saved the war arc was Madara's presence as a villain. Also what M3X said about Itachi and Sasuke.

You definitely aren't following it because it's about ended since last week. The final fight between Shigi and Deku is also about 30 chapters, just like the final fight with Frieza.

And manga wise that's only eight chapters the five minutes bit

Edit: that is ignoring chapters in between away from the pair
I'll admit I didn't keep up, I thought it still wasn't over.

It just goes to show how having different plots to break the pacing a bit is good. Kenjaku Vs Takaba was necessary as **** given how cluttered the current story is in terms of repetition. A shame it lasted not that long. Uraume Vs Hakari could’ve been used to break the pace a little bit but I believe Gege regretted this fight lol.
And even then, we complained about. Although now it wouldn't hurt at all. I wish it happened after we progressed through some of Yuji vs Sukuna instead of right before, but that's just me.
 
It just goes to show how having different plots to break the pacing a bit is good. Kenjaku Vs Takaba was necessary as **** given how cluttered the current story is in terms of repetition. A shame it lasted not that long. Uraume Vs Hakari could’ve been used to break the pace a little bit but I believe Gege regretted this fight lol.
The issue with this is in the Sukuna fight each strategy they employ builds upon the previous one, meaning taking breaks could disrupt the reader following along with why certain strategies are able to function now as opposed to before (even now you have people doing that), but I do agree Gege needs to give Hakari vs Uraume spotlight given we've only been given like 1 chapter of that fight so far.
I don't share that experience. Many people I've seen lambasted Naruto's war arc for being a mess pacing wise and how Kishimoto was writing himself into a corner (also for having Boruto pick up on said concept but that's for another day) I for one haven't touched Naruto in years since I finished it in 2021, and one of the reasons is the war arc. The only thing that saved the war arc was Madara's presence as a villain. Also what M3X said about Itachi and Sasuke.
If that's your opinion then sure. Although with the Itachi vs Sasuke thing, the war arc only really had break away sections near the start, once Madara joined with Obito (chapter 601) to when Madara died (chapter 678) it was just constant fighting against Madara and Obito (both on the same battlefield). Meanwhile Gojo was unsealed on chapter 221, and we're at chapter 261, with that including their preparation, Gojo v Sukuna, Kenjaku v Takaba, the Sukuna onslaught, and brief showings of Uraume v Hakari.
 
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