Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[M3X_2.0]

Dodging and blocking*

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

MHS+ perception speed isn't really combat applicable is it?

 

[Arkenis]

Dodging and blocking*

I know the water piercing one, but when did he dodge?

 

[M3X_2.0]

MHS+ perception speed isn't really combat applicable is it?

Means they won’t get blitzed by MHS+ speeds, but they cannot move this fast to counter act.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I know the water piercing one, but when did he dodge?

One piercing water from Sukuna where Gojo blocked with his arm and the other was also a piercing water fron Sukuna at close range where Gojo dodged.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also wouldn't awakened Gojo scale to Hypersonic since he was blitzing Toji?

 

[Arkenis]

Also wouldn't awakened Gojo scale to Hypersonic since he was blitzing Toji?

Yeah.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Just rate teen gojo as Hypersonic tbh, he was tired as hell and makes no sense to make two ratings.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I don't think MHS+ perception speed makes sense. Perception speed is for how you percive the world, so this would mean that Gojo can see Sukuna and everyone in slow motion

"reaction speed" fits better

 

[Arkenis]

I don't think MHS+ perception speed makes sense. Perception speed is for how you percive the world, so this would mean that Gojo can see Sukuna and everyone in slow motion

"reaction speed" fits better

Reaction doesn't fit better, he can't move at mhs+. And no perception is about processing and activation.

The timeframe it takes for a character to notice an event or reaction. But crucially, this does not grant any movement; at most, it allows the user to activate a thought-based ability.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Does awakened Yuji scale to Weakened Sukuna's Hypersonic?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Reaction doesn't fit better, he can't move at mhs+

Reaction is not moving (I still don't know why that description didn't changed in the speed page)
Reaction speed is when you can perform quick one-time movements to avoid some attacks, but it does not give any movement speed to dodge or block anything
Perception is how you percive the world, like in slow motion

 

[Arkenis]

Reaction is not moving (I still don't know why that description didn't changed in the speed page)
Reaction speed is when you can perform quick one-time movements to avoid some attacks, but it does not give any movement speed to dodge or block anything

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat.

As another example, let's say that character A uses a minigun on character B, but the minigun takes a second or two to charge up and Character B sees this. If Character B dodges it is considered aim dodging since he/she knew that the attack was going to happen.

Reaction speed is reacting to an attack that you don't know is going to happen, or at a very close range. The reaction speed of a character also tends to be higher than their movement speed.

It is about movement. Perception fits better. And I was slightly wrong, Perception is about noticing events but not reacting as well

 

[Arkenis]

Does awakened Yuji scale to Weakened Sukuna's Hypersonic?

No. Sukuna wouldn't even be hypersonic when he starts fighting Yuji. The last time we see him do something hypersonic is on Maki. The rest is just supersonic since after this, he's unexcited by everyone else.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It is about movement.

No, its not
Jotaro has MFTL reaction speed but cannot punch at this peed
Snake has MHS speed but cannot punch at this speed
And so on
Reaction is the timeframe that START to act

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action

Plus, why it couldn't be reaction anyway even so. Gojo basically says that he can output inside the 1/1000000 timeframe

 

[Arkenis]

No, its not
Jotaro has MFTL reaction speed but cannot punch at this peed
Metal Gear chaarcter has MHS speed but cannot punch at this speed
And so on
Reaction is the timeframe that START you can act

No one is talking about punching. I'm talking about reacting aka movements. We aren't disagreeing.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

PUNCHING IS MOVEMENT ARKENIS

 

[LIGHTYW]

Means they won’t get blitzed by MHS+ speeds, but they cannot move this fast to counter act.

Reaction doesn't fit better, he can't move at mhs+. And no perception is about processing and activation.

Sukuna and gojo could maybe, there are moments in the battle where sukuna moves so fast that gojo barely reacts, for example in chap 231, where gojo uses "clones", sukuna grabs one of gojos hand and punches him but Gojo only blocks the punch at literally point blank, if sukuna only had hypersonic speeds, gojo having MHS+ perceptions wouldnt block his punches at point blank
Also, sukuna does something similar on chap 227

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also don't they all get stronger during the Shinjuku arc? Because if so, then Toni scaling to Maki's Hypersonic is a bit iffy, since Toji is scaling off of a previous Maki.

Unless Maki didn't get stronger and I missed something

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Also don't they all get stronger during the Shinjuku arc? Because if so, then Toni scaling to Maki's Hypersonic is a bit iffy, since Toji is scaling off of a previous Maki.

Unless Maki didn't get stronger and I missed something

Hypersonic is from Maki immediately after her realization, thus Toji would scale to that the very least

 

[Arkenis]

Sukuna and gojo could maybe, there are moments in the battle where sukuna moves so fast that gojo barely reacts, for example in chap 231, where gojo uses "clones", sukuna grabs one of gojos hand and punches him but Gojo only blocks the punch at literally point blank, if sukuna only had hypersonic speeds, gojo wouldnt block his punches at point blank
Also, sukuna does something similar on chap 227

That isn't how scaling works. And they are both nerfed considering its post domain battles.

PUNCHING IS MOVEMENT ARKENIS

How are you being this dense? The movements I'm talking about are the ones reaction speed is referring to.

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

Also don't they all get stronger during the Shinjuku arc? Because if so, then Toni scaling to Maki's Hypersonic is a bit iffy, since Toji is scaling off of a previous Maki.

Unless Maki didn't get stronger and I missed something

The only ones known to get stronger are the ones who do soul swaps.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Hypersonic is from Maki immediately after her realization, thus Toji would scale to that the very least

No Maki is also getting Hypersonic scaling from Sukuna in the sandbox

The only ones known to get stronger are the ones who do soul swaps.

Ah I see. Nvm then.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I don't think Maki got stronger than Toji

Toji was born with heavy restriction since day one, with years and years of training, yet Maki have became a equal since after Mai's sacrifice

 

[Arkenis]

No Maki is also getting Hypersonic scaling from Sukuna in the sandbox

No, she's not. That's her own speed from her feat. I put the reference in the wrong place is all, its fixed now

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

How are you being this dense? The movements I'm talking about are the ones reaction speed is referring to.

YES, it gives a short movement but this does not mean that the movement will be at the same speed of the reaction

Its basic interpretation
Reaction speed gives you a open for movement inside the timeframe

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I don't think Maki got stronger than Toji

Toji was born with heavy restriction since day one, with years and years of training, yet Maki have became a equal since after Mai's sacrifice

Nothing seems definitive, but it would line up with the entire narrative that the new generation has high potential

 

[LIGHTYW]

That isn't how scaling works. And they are both nerfed considering its post domain battles.
.

What? It does work, if sukuna has hypersonic combat speed and gojo has MHS+ perception, why and how would gojo blocks the punch only when it was a few inches away? He wouldve perceived the punch literally in slow mo if it had hypersonic speed
Also, even if they are both nerfed, i dont see how that affects his perception speed, as this is because of six eyes, and six eyes dont need CE to work, they dont get slow etc

 

[Arkenis]

YES, it gives a short movement but this does not mean that the movement will be at the same speed of the reaction

You're wrong. It is clearly talking about those movements being the reactions. I don't get what the issue is.

What? It does work, if sukuna has hypersonic combat speed and gojo has MHS+ perception, why and how would gojo blocks the punch only when it was a few inches away? He wouldve perceived the punch literally in slow mo if it had hypersonic speed
Also, even if they are both nerfed, i dont see how that affects his perception speed, as this is because of six eyes, and six eyes dont need CE to work, they dont get slow etc

Yet that's what we see. Gojo has slower reactions/perception, you yourself are showing that by his late reaction. Meanwhile Gojo's reactions in the beginning were like this.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I regret saying make MHS+ perception speed. Cause Gojo says he can hit that timeframe for applying cursed energy any time which is why I said it. It’s barely perception speed since it would just rely on timing and it sure as hell isn’t reaction speed.

 

[Arkenis]

I regret saying make MHS+ perception speed. Cause Gojo says he can hit that timeframe for applying cursed energy any time which is why I said it. It’s barely perception speed since it would just rely on timing and it sure as hell isn’t reaction speed.

You saying it should just be scrapped?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

You saying it should just be scrapped?

Kind of but it was just a way to keep people from saying “oh they should scale to the black flash timeframe” despite that timeframe being entirely based on cursed energy application in a strike which has nothing to do with movement. The closest thing we had for it was perception speed and it’s barely that since it could also be a trained timing thing

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The structure of the sentence and the surrounding context imply Gojo could do it casually so for him it's something

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I regret saying make MHS+ perception speed. Cause Gojo says he can hit that timeframe for applying cursed energy any time which is why I said it. It’s barely perception speed since it would just rely on timing and it sure as hell isn’t reaction speed.

Doesn't warhammer characters have MFTL+ perception for similar reasons tho?

 

[Arkenis]

Kind of but it was just a way to keep people from saying “oh they should scale to the black flash timeframe” despite that timeframe being entirely based on cursed energy application in a strike which has nothing to do with movement. The closest thing we had for it was perception speed and it’s barely that since it could also be a trained timing thing

I would say to come to a middle ground for those who think it should be reaction or perception, it could be a likely rating.

The structure of the sentence and the surrounding context imply Gojo could do it casually so for him it's something

Yeah that's what I wanted it to be, but knowing people its gonna be asked "why doesn't Sukuna scale also".

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Yeah that's what I wanted it to be, but knowing people its gonna be asked "why doesn't Sukuna scale also".

Well we see during the second domain clash that Sukuna is capable of making movements faster than Gojo's reaction timeframe up close

So another solution is to just make them MHS+ outright

 

[Arkenis]

Well we see during the second domain clash that Sukuna is capable of making movements faster than Gojo's reaction timeframe up close

So another solution is to just make them MHS+ outright

This?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

This?

I was talking about the part where he moves behind Gojo to grab his leg, but that's worth mentioning ig

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

This?

I was talking about the part where he moves behind Gojo to grab his leg, but that's worth mentioning ig

MFW I may have accidentally allowed MHS+ a chance to return

Doesn't warhammer characters have MFTL+ perception for similar reasons tho?

Some have it as MHS+, FTL, or MFTL+ and it’s cause those instances have them either think or see events within microseconds, nanoseconds, or they literally just see lasers as frozen in one instance but their main combat speed remains lower since despite that they can’t move that fast. Hell the guy who saw lasers as frozen a page later iirc literally got stabbed by a spear from a dude who is very much not mftl+

 

[Arkenis]

I was talking about the part where he moves behind Gojo to grab his leg, but that's worth mentioning too

That isn't really speed. Gojo wasn't blitzed by it or anything like that.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That isn't really speed. Gojo wasn't blitzed by it or anything like that.

I wasn't trying to say that. Who do you think I am, LIGHTYW?

I'm saying he's capable of making movements that his supposed high reaction speed can't account for while face to face