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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Rosa said:
Was thinking on it and the anti-feats people use against MHS+ and above just come from inverse takes (like "Naoya > Hakari") which are definitely not set it stone, to the point every crt thread on it comes down to me arguing inverse scaling about these characters which I think is at the very least weak. Like if you need to disregard several feats because of your own inverse metas, a meta which has no explicit feats and statements only "narrative implication", then maybe the inverse meta simply isn't allat. If I ever do a CRT defending JJK speed scaling, I'll focus it far more on attacking all the Naoya and Naobito wank on this site.
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Cook. 💯💯
 
Rosa said:
bro come on 😭 either way Sukuna did try sneak attacking Gojo alongside Maho and Agito in 233, shit failed and he went back to hiding.
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Rosa said:
Sukuna came out, got perception blitzed, Mahoraga then saved him from being hit by a BF, Sukuna tries punching Gojo and gets dragged around by his wrist and caught by Mahoraga, Mahoraga then saves him from a second BF hit, Gojo charges red and Sukuna thinks "it's okay, Mahoraga can save me again!", Gojo fires it and Sukuna, sweating and spitting, begs Mahoraga to save him before trying to sneak another PB shot but gets countered, then Gojo successfully lands purple. Show me where this contradicts Sukuna's fear that Gojo would unleash purple if he came out of hiding?
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Rosa said:
Sukuna says he's doing it to avoid purple, pretty blatant why he's hiding when he tells us why.
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I already explained that it was a buffed Gojo versus a weakened Sukuna, along with a brainless Agito and a Mahoraga that had not fully adapted to Gojo. This weakened Sukuna, who had to issue commands to Mahoraga, faced off against 2BF Gojo in his zone. Sukuna knew he couldn't let Gojo fire Purple, so he made Agito and Mahoraga fight him while he gave them orders.As I explained, whether Sukuna was afraid or not, Mahoraga and Agito ganging up on Gojo does not demonstrate a significant skill feat. Those two were brainless and required Sukuna's commands to act. Therefore, comparing Gojo fighting them to Sukuna fighting multiple hands is not a fair argument.
Rosa said:
Agito is still stat relative to the three of them, so her having low battle IQ doesn't make it non-comparable. Sukuna is more skilled, sure, but Gojo fighting against 3 sets of arms.
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There are zero feats showcased relative to that. Gojo literally pierced it and was damaging it with just normal Blue. Agito was obviously below Gojo and Mahoraga. Also, it had only one opening to attack Gojo, which was when Mahoraga made contact with Gojo. As I said, Gojo literally mocks that.

By your logic, if just fighting more opponents is a good feat, then Sukuna fought Kusakabe, Yuji, Choso, Ino, and Higuruma. According to your logic, True Form Sukuna's skill in fighting five people is greater than Gojo fighting three people (Mahoraga, Meguna, and Agito)? You know how silly these arguments sound. Just because Mahoraga and Agito were working under Sukuna, you are trying to say it's the same as Sukuna fighting with his own hands. Not to mention, Sukuna needed to convey his commands through some telepathy link between the Shikigami, as we saw, and Mahoraga and Agito later executed them. It's not the same as him using his hands and legs simultaneously.
Rosa said:
My argument is that Gojo can easily account for a numerical difference in arms, you've yet to show that Sukuna can cross a skill gap with extra arms.
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  • Narratively stated to be not hindered by any means.
  • Can defend with 2 hands and simultaneously attack with remaining 2 hands. (Which already dwarfs Meguna:s skills). He can also just catch his opponents with 2 hands and beat the shit out of them with remaining 2 hands.
  • There are too many feats which he performed better than having 2 hands with his 4 hands. Not to mention he also uses kicks and all when fighting others alongside mixing that up with his 4 arms.
  • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & more. Not really interested in spoon feeding every feat explanation.
  • Even his stub hands are useful than just having 2 hands.
Overall, saying True Form Sukuna wouldn't have skill or advantage over Meguna is just dishonest, especially considering he has extra hands and has showcased his ability to utilize them effectively in CQC combat against others.
Rosa said:
I used an instance where a 4-armed opponent lost to a 2-armed opponent purely due to a skill gap to infer that the same could theoretically occur to another 4-armed opponent if he went up against a better H2H fighters - how is that the same as saying "both 4-armed opponents are equal in skill"?
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So, your analogy has no value if you think both has different level skills.
Sukuna has better IQ and years of experience fighting other CQC combatants. Meanwhile, the Grasshopper curse was an idiot and a Grade 2 level curse, while Yuji at that time was a Grade 1 level, capable of taking on Special Grade curses. The Grasshopper curse only punched using its four arms, with no noteworthy skill in its use of hands, unlike Sukuna, who is proficient in utilizing his hands for both defense and offense simultaneously. He is also shown to use stub hands efficiently. Comparing Yuji beating up the Grasshopper curse, which had no skills, to Sukuna, who can fight efficiently based on situations, is just silly.
 
Anyway not interested in continuing this yap session. Not really interested in this Grasshopper Curse IQ and Agito IQ matching God tiers of the verse when comes to Combat skills. Seems like waste of time.
 
Rosa said:
Was thinking on it and the anti-feats people use against MHS+ and above just come from inverse takes (like "Naoya > Hakari") which are definitely not set it stone, to the point every crt thread on it comes down to me arguing inverse scaling about these characters which I think is at the very least weak. Like if you need to disregard several feats because of your own inverse metas, a meta which has no explicit feats and statements only "narrative implication", then maybe the inverse meta simply isn't allat. If I ever do a CRT defending JJK speed scaling, I'll focus it far more on attacking all the Naoya and Naobito wank on this site.
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NGL I agree with this take of yours
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I already explained that it was a buffed Gojo versus a weakened Sukuna, along with a brainless Agito and a Mahoraga that had not fully adapted to Gojo. This weakened Sukuna, who had to issue commands to Mahoraga, faced off against 2BF Gojo in his zone. Sukuna knew he couldn't let Gojo fire Purple, so he made Agito and Mahoraga fight him while he gave them orders.As I explained, whether Sukuna was afraid or not, Mahoraga and Agito ganging up on Gojo does not demonstrate a significant skill feat. Those two were brainless and required Sukuna's commands to act. Therefore, comparing Gojo fighting them to Sukuna fighting multiple hands is not a fair argument.
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Firstly, Gojo's brain damage nerf was more substantial than Sukuna's with the zone granted by black flash never being portrayed as a substantial increase to one's stats (only a 120% increase), suggested by the fact that Gojo's physical performance hadn't changed all that much (went from dragging Sukuna around by the collar of his shirt to dragging him around by his wrist). So this narrative of "a buffed Gojo versus a weakened Sukuna" is disingenuous.

Secondly, Sukuna did try and make it a 3v1, he even calls it a 3v1 and fights alongside them both, but Sukuna was being outplayed by Gojo and thought it best to just wait until an opening is created (i.e. Gojo losing his arm). So yes, that is a feat for Gojo to force Sukuna to recline himself in such a way, and there's never been any statement or implication that Sukuna would cross the gap between himself and Gojo with just 2 additional arms if he couldn't do so with 2 of the strongest summons in the verse which both have feats of being in the same tier as himself.
EldemadeDityjon said:
There are zero feats showcased relative to that. Gojo literally pierced it and was damaging it with just normal Blue. Agito was obviously below Gojo and Mahoraga. Also, it had only one opening to attack Gojo, which was when Mahoraga made contact with Gojo. As I said, Gojo literally mocks that.
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Agito's speed feats are unquestionably relative to Mahoraga, they both run alongside each other numerous times and attack in synchronicity, with Agito only being pierced by Gojo's black flash and otherwise surviving his punch to her head, the only area she lacks is attack potency given Gojo dodges or blocks everything she has (same with, in large part, Mahoraga and Sukuna).
EldemadeDityjon said:
By your logic, if just fighting more opponents is a good feat, then Sukuna fought Kusakabe, Yuji, Choso, Ino, and Higuruma. According to your logic, True Form Sukuna's skill in fighting five people is greater than Gojo fighting three people (Mahoraga, Meguna, and Agito)?
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No where did I say merely fighting more opponents makes it a good feat, you're being outright disingenuous now. A person can fight 100 people whilst another can fight only 1, that second character can still be more skilled and stronger than the former. This is because in group fights a big factor is the differential in strength, speed, skill, and how well the group can fight alongside one-another. Sukuna fought a group of 5 who were largely fighting individually, the only instance of several attacking at the same time was when Yuji and Kusakabe tried to rush at Sukuna and got knocked away by his slashes, whilst also possessing a MASSIVE stat advantage over them all and a superior CT - Gojo fought 3 opponents who were all relative in stats to him whilst also having his CT nullified. Do you not realise why the latter is a greater indication of a skill feat than the former?
EldemadeDityjon said:
You know how silly these arguments sound. Just because Mahoraga and Agito were working under Sukuna, you are trying to say it's the same as Sukuna fighting with his own hands.
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Have I said this? No.
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • Narratively stated to be not hindered by any means.
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How does this suggest at all that Sukuna is better at H2H combat with 4 arms?
EldemadeDityjon said:
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IF he can catch them, sure.
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • There are too many feats which he performed better than having 2 hands with his 4 hands. Not to mention he also uses kicks and all when fighting others alongside mixing that up with his 4 arms.
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Gojo also has legs.
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & more. Not really interested in spoon feeding every feat explanation.
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You can't prove any of these manoeuvres wouldn't just be dodged by Gojo with most of them just being generic shit like "Sukuna punched with 2 hands on the same spot instead of one" or "Sukuna blocked with 3 hands, not one".
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • Even his stub hands are useful than just having 2 hands.
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Sukuna would just do this with 2 hands too, he's only using 1 stub and 1 hand here...
EldemadeDityjon said:
So, your analogy has no value if you think both has different level skills.
Sukuna has better IQ and years of experience fighting other CQC combatants. Meanwhile, the Grasshopper curse was an idiot and a Grade 2 level curse, while Yuji at that time was a Grade 1 level, capable of taking on Special Grade curses. The Grasshopper curse only punched using its four arms, with no noteworthy skill in its use of hands, unlike Sukuna, who is proficient in utilizing his hands for both defense and offense simultaneously. He is also shown to use stub hands efficiently. Comparing Yuji beating up the Grasshopper curse, which had no skills, to Sukuna, who can fight efficiently based on situations, is just silly.
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You don't seem to grasp what an analogy is 😭 . Saying "Yuji can overcome a 2 arm advantage via possessing superior H2H skill, therefore Gojo could do the same to Sukuna" doesn't rely on Sukuna being equal to the grasshopper curse in skill at all. The grasshopper could be baby tier in skill and Sukuna a master of every single martial art in fiction, doesn't change the fact that the analogy applies because it's about the ability to be out-skilled.

If I said "the different between 2 and 3 can be overcome by squaring 2, therefore the difference between 5 and 6 can be overcome by squaring 5" that would be true regardless of if you said "but 5 is greater than 2! 6 is greater than 3!!!!"
 
Will never be him
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