Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

It doesnt need to say he recovered his output completely, he recovered his lost output meaning his output isnt lower anymore

Yeah lost output to make rct workable. Nothing about being at full power here. Not sure why you missed that.

Its true that Sukuna’s output was low, however his CE is still high enough, his CE at that time should be still higher than Yuta who has higher CE than Gojo, and he actually was at death’s door after that HP, he was ~ Kashimo whos on Hakari’s level who cant take even one punch from Gojo, so if Sukuna didnt have the new dismantle, didnt have a way to fix his body, Gojo wouldve probbaly finished him off in 2 pages after that moment, its the reason Kusakabe said Gojo has won the fight.

It being higher than Yuta's doesn't matter when he's bound to just die right there. CE reserves do little if your ce output is so trash, like Sukuna's is.
Furthermore if Sukuna's ce output is that low. to where he can't use rct properly (not enough output for rct), then the Mahoraga he summoned is most likely close to the level of Untamed Shibuya Maho who is confirmed 3f level
So yeah, Mahoraga is getting turned into blood mist from that BF punch, if his output is back fully, like you assume it to be. That big gap is putting holes in the idea that he's at fp.

Hakari and Yuta can't even take that hit from that gojo who wasn't even serious in punching. (then there's the argument to be made that he didn't remove his blindfold in order to allow his six eyes to operate at full power/normal level versus blindfolded gojo)

Yeah but you're not getting the point that if Sukuna's output is just that bad, to where he's quite literal multiple fingers below, then he's simply just not surviving that HP, let alone a regular red. Take for example their first domain battle. Gojo was constantly being wounded by slashes, and any of his techniques being used in a domain, especially as powerful as Sukuna's, will be nerfed. Ontop of that, Sukuna was buffed by his domain. Yet one red wounded him hefty. That's quite telling about the gap between these two. I think you get the point that this Sukuna would instantly get blitzed and die if gojo was truly at full power.

"Gojo has recovered the output that he lost" means his output was at full power there, lets assume he lost 40% of his output, after the 2nd bf he regained the lost output meaning he regained those 40% back.

? BF's don't stack continuously with more "20% shtick. That's just never stated if that's what you're going with. And how much it can help improve your Ce control is kinda negligible at a certain point when you reach gojo and sukuna level. It does help you recover your output, sure, but it's not like that big of a increase like you're putting it to be. And again, the idea of him being at full power here is quite contradicting to the narrative. He only recovered the output necessary to use rct properly. Nothing more. Nothing saying he is at full power or Sukuna is.

And if you think full power gojo is going to get caught off guard by a Hakari level character who is near death, then I'm curious as to why you think so. Becuase the CE spark, and every other action from Sukuna, will be easily detected by gojo, and perceived extremely slowly. Especially given the fact that Gojo can analyze how the CE spark is exactly the same as the one Mahoraga sent against Gojo, which Gojo has seen. And can also analyze Sukuna trying to use his ct to send out world slash, and understand that it will cut through him.

Are you getting what I mean? Sukuna would be multiple tiers below Gojo if he is at such level of power near death, compared to the gojo who is several tiers above. The world slash simply won't even succeed in hitting gojo at all with how slow it would be with that low level output.

So the more consistent and sensible interpretation would be that he simply just hasn't reached full power yet, and thus, gojo and sukuna don't have a multiple tiers gap between them. Otherwise Sukuna would simply just die from that HP if his output is that extremely low whereas Gojo is ""FP""

 

[Shey]

How do people think Sukuna is at 120% just cause of BF?
That makes no sense, he's nowhere near even 100%, he's closer to the ~10% output back at 214 if anything arguably worse.
Also where does the idea the 120% thing stacks even come from?

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Also where does the idea the 120% thing stacks even come from?

People think 20% after 20% stacks on and on for some reason. Even then, the benefits given by BF may not be that much of a help for those at a very high level of jujutsu and ce control like gojo and Sukuna. The "manipulating ce becomes as natural as breathing" isn't that well impressive for those that have already hit BF, or have a very high level of ce control to begin with. It does help you in getting into the zone to have a higher focus, and can help fix your CE output (so control) if you're nerfed like gojo and sukuna, but it doesn't seem to have a drastically big impact on these two when comparing it to their FP.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

he's closer to the ~10% output back at 214 if anything arguably worse.

No the hell he is not

 

[Sir_sun_man]

No the hell he is not

yeah he is at least on 30% of his 20F self, 10% of 15F is a take and then some

 

[Shey]

No the hell he is not

For what reason would he be closer to 120% ?

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

No the hell he is not

Yet 15F Sukuna with less than 10% CE output clobbered Maki and got her hurt and spitting out blood?
current Sukuna should be on that level like Shey said, otherwise fp sukuna just one shots Maki to blood mist if you think he's very close to fp or at it (or beyond fp)

Have yall ever wondered as to why Kenny (Kenjaku) just never tried to tame Mahoraga, whatsoever. And he has the means to just grab the 10S CT if he wants. He hates the six eyes users, and Maho is easily a really good counter to them, given how he's the Opp for the gojo clan. He has lots of means and tools on his hands to try and attempt trying to achieve control of Mahoraga. Kenny isn't stupid. So why?

The answer is simple. Mahoraga is just too strong. So if Mahoraga is too strong then what does that say for the heavy hitters who can't go 1v1 with Kenny in a conventional way? I think the answer is obvious here.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Gonna wait till Sunday to make the CRT about JJK’s speed.

All the people who’ve said that everyone just wants mindless upgrades are really looking at any straw to grab to deny this, and have become to no different to try and strong arm JJK’s speed being as low as possible by force.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

For what reason would he be closer to 120% ?

I never said he was

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Yet 15F Sukuna with less than 10% CE output clobbered Maki and got her hurt and spitting out blood?
current Sukuna should be on that level like Shey said, otherwise fp sukuna just one shots Maki to blood mist if you think he's very close to fp or at it (or beyond fp)

Have yall ever wondered as to why Kenny (Kenjaku) just never tried to tame Mahoraga, whatsoever. And he has the means to just grab the 10S CT if he wants. He hates the six eyes users, and Maho is easily a really good counter to them, given how he's the Opp for the gojo clan. He has lots of means and tools on his hands to try and attempt trying to achieve control of Mahoraga. Kenny isn't stupid. So why?

The answer is simple. Mahoraga is just too strong. So if Mahoraga is too strong then what does that say for the heavy hitters who can't go 1v1 with Kenny in a conventional way? I think the answer is obvious here.

I think he is saying that, that sukuna should be weaker than the current one (in output at least) and I agree with that, cuse that sukuna at 10% was equal to slightly above maki.

Current sukuna has outright blitzed maki and clobbered her a number of times at this point (with a single arm no less), doesn't mean he is anywhere close to being at 100% or 120%, he is likely closer to like 20-30% of his FP

 

[Shey]

I never said he was

So why are you contending him being closer to his 214 State

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Yet 15F Sukuna with less than 10% CE output clobbered Maki and got her hurt and spitting out blood?
current Sukuna should be on that level like Shey said, otherwise fp sukuna just one shots Maki to blood mist if you think he's very close to fp or at it (or beyond fp)

Have yall ever wondered as to why Kenny (Kenjaku) just never tried to tame Mahoraga, whatsoever. And he has the means to just grab the 10S CT if he wants. He hates the six eyes users, and Maho is easily a really good counter to them, given how he's the Opp for the gojo clan. He has lots of means and tools on his hands to try and attempt trying to achieve control of Mahoraga. Kenny isn't stupid. So why?

The answer is simple. Mahoraga is just too strong. So if Mahoraga is too strong then what does that say for the heavy hitters who can't go 1v1 with Kenny in a conventional way? I think the answer is obvious here.

I dont want to sound rude but thats a lot of headcanons. There is no way that 1 finger Sukuna is doing alat. Unless you also think that 1f sukuna can tank hits from someone relative to CT less Gojo

 

[Sir_sun_man]

So why are you contending him being closer to his 214 State

I mean doubting that current sukuna is only at 7.5% of his full power after hitting 4 BF's is not that much of a reach I must say

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

So why are you contending him being closer to his 214 State

Because he is not

 

[Shey]

I mean doubting that current sukuna is only at 7.5% of his full power after hitting 4 BF's is not that much of a reach I must say

I didn't say that, I said he's closer to that state than an impractical 120%

Because he is not

Substantiate on why that is

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Substantiate on why that is

I dont want to sound rude but thats a lot of headcanons. There is no way that 1 finger Sukuna is doing alat. Unless you also think that 1f sukuna can tank hits from someone relative to CT less Gojo

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I didn't say that, I said he's closer to that state than an impractical 120%

you should word it better next time, saying "he's closer to the ~10% output back at 214 if anything arguably worse"
comes off as you saying he is currently weaker than the 10% of 15F which he sure as hell isn't.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I think he is saying that, that sukuna should be weaker than the current one (in output at least) and I agree with that, cuse that sukuna at 10% was equal to slightly above maki.

Current sukuna has outright blitzed maki and clobbered her a number of times at this point (with a single arm no less), doesn't mean he is anywhere close to being at 100% or 120%, he is likely closer to like 20-30% of his FP

didn't 215 Sukuna also handle yuji and maki trying to barrage him, crouch down, flow his ce to his ct, activate it and make spider cleave, all whilst Maki and Yuji were in midst swing motion?
feels like that was a near blitz there.

maki despite those keen senses didn't seem to be able to react in time to stop Sukuna from activating cleave there. Sukuna also says less than 10% output is enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji too. while Yuji isn't Maki level, they're kinda in the same ballpark stat wise.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

didn't 215 Sukuna also handle yuji and maki trying to barrage him, crouch down, flow his ce to his ct, activate it and make spider cleave, all whilst Maki and Yuji were in midst swing motion?
feels like that was a near blitz there.

and maki despite those keen senses didn't seem to be able to react in time to stop Sukuna from activating cleave there. Sukuna also says less than 10% output is enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji too. while Yuji isn't Maki level, they're kinda in the same ballpark stat wise.

well maki was holding back her speed for yuji to keep up but that's not much the point.

The main thing is that current sukuna is running everyones pockets while only with 1 functional arm, he blitzed maki hardcore, full on preception blitz, while the 215 fight he was faster and stronger but not quite to that level and also current yuji should be massively over the yuji in 215 due to the death paintings he ate, those alone should bump him up by 3-4 fingers worth of power (CE that is, not actual sukuna levels) and he is was getting his pockets ran while in a 5v1 anyway.


Current sukuna should still be substentially above the 10% 15F sukuna, like he is nowhere near 120% of his full power (like some claim) but he is at least 20% of his FP right now.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

comes off as you saying he is currently weaker than the 10% of 15F which he sure as hell isn't.

Oh, i thought thats what he was implying lmao

 

[Shey]

you should word it better next time, saying "he's closer to the ~10% output back at 214 if anything arguably worse"
comes off as you saying he is currently weaker than the 10% of 15F which he sure as hell isn't.

Arguably so, he's physically mutilated, missing his heart which already weakens him as implied from the detention center, his Output weakened from his extensive battle with Gojo, multiple blows from Yuji who weakens his output and reduces his control over the body.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Oh, i thought thats what he was implying lmao

(Honestly same)

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Arguably so, he's physically mutilated, missing his heart which already weakens him as implied from the detention center, his Output weakened from his extensive battle with Gojo, multiple blows from Yuji who weakens his output and reduces his control over the body.

you also forgot that he hit 4 straight BF's back to back, his output while nowhere near 100% shouldn't be as low as 7.5 cuse if that was the case a combo of yuji and miguel would be able to slaughter him as both have special grade's of AP and then some but sukuna is still beating the breaks off of them while with a single arm, his output is way over 7.5% current because if it wasn't with all the weakenesses you just mentioned he'd be dead already.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I dont want to sound rude but thats a lot of headcanons. There is no way that 1 finger Sukuna is doing alat. Unless you also think that 1f sukuna can tank hits from someone relative to CT less Gojo

ct less gojo and ct gojo are easily 20F though?
and why is it headcanon. If Kenjaku was stronger than 3F Mahoraga, or equal, he would no doubt try to acquire it for himself due to how busted it is. Yet the fact that he didn't shows how strong Maho is. 3F Mahoraga >> Kenjaku >= The heavy hitters.
and that isn't 1F Sukuna. It's 1.5F Sukuna. Which makes sense too given that current Sukuna and even the Sukuna beginning of chapter 235 didn't have proper output for rct, unlike 2F Sukun who can rapidly heal casually.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

you also forgot that he hit 4 straight BF's back to back, his output while nowhere near 100% shouldn't be as low as 7.5 cuse if that was the case a combo of yuji and miguel would be able to slaughter him as both have special grade's of AP and then some but sukuna is still beating the breaks off of them while with a single arm, his output is way over 7.5% current because if it wasn't with all the weakenesses you just mentioned he'd be dead already.

Every hit from Yuji is setting those BF back though. It's stated by Choso.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Every hit from Yuji is setting those BF back though. It's stated by Choso.

Also, yall are aware that current Sukuna has ce reserves less than 10F, right? So output wise, if he wasn't nerfed at all and only had ce reserves up to 10F, he would only be capable of displaying 10F level output... So currently, this isn't really a ""20F Sukuna"" at the moment. It's a "10F/9F" Sukuna who has a output far worse than 10F/9F.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Every hit from Yuji is setting those BF back though. It's stated by Choso.

Yes but to say that sukuna is at less than 7.5% output is a bit nuts, like sure yuji is keeping it down hence sukuna can't really use those 10F worth of CE for much hence he is at like 5F to 4F level but 1.5F is quesitonable at best aspecially after the 4 BF's like sure they didn't recover him over the 50% (nowhere near) but not even 10% nah that is nuts, 20-25% is where he is at right now.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

ct less gojo and ct gojo are easily 20F though?
and why is it headcanon. If Kenjaku was stronger than 3F Mahoraga, or equal, he would no doubt try to acquire it for himself due to how busted it is. Yet the fact that he didn't shows how strong Maho is. 3F Mahoraga >> Kenjaku >= The heavy hitters.
and that isn't 1F Sukuna. It's 1.5F Sukuna. Which makes sense too given that current Sukuna and even the Sukuna beginning of chapter 235 didn't have proper output for rct, unlike 2F Sukun who can rapidly heal casually.

Kenjaku never tried to tame Mahoraga because hes not interrested in the 10s. He never cared about Megumi. He never even mentioned his name

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I just realized, Kenjaku’s black hole perception feat is now valid now. Awesome.

 

[Shey]

you also forgot that he hit 4 straight BF's back to back, his output while nowhere near 100% shouldn't be as low as 7.5 cuse if that was the case a combo of yuji and miguel would be able to slaughter him as both have special grade's of AP and then some but sukuna is still beating the breaks off of them while with a single arm, his output is way over 7.5% current because if it wasn't with all the weakenesses you just mentioned he'd be dead already.

He was already blitzing them before even hitting the Black Flashes. Sukuna gets at fast as he wants to be, if he's toying with them they can keep up a little if he locks in they get BLITZED.

What indicates that Sukuna at that level wouldn't still be able to give them a run down, you're just saying he'd be dead already but for what reason?

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Also, yall are aware that current Sukuna has ce reserves less than 10F, right? So output wise, if he wasn't nerfed at all and only had ce reserves up to 10F, he would only be capable of displaying 10F level output... So currently, this isn't really a ""20F Sukuna"" at the moment. It's a "10F/9F" Sukuna who has a output far worse than 10F/9F.

CE reserves dont correlate to CE output. Yuta, for example, has some of the largest cursed energy reserves within the entire series but even he can't output the same level of cursed energy as Ryu by himself.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

He was already blitzing them before even hitting the Black Flashes.

What indicates that Sukuna at that level wouldn't still be able to give them a run down, you're just saying he'd be dead already but for what reason?

good sir, we have miguel who Gojo compared to himself when it comes to CE reinforcement and gojo while not even trying was able to smash 1F sukuna into the pavement before he could even react and yet we see this current sukuna being able to actually react to and swap hands with miguel.

Current sukuna is in no way below 2 finger worths of power, he is currently at like 4-5 fingers, or less than half of his current 10F worth of CE that he has left after the Gojo fight (plus I mean common yuji and the gang where able to somewhat swap hands with sukuna fresh of his reincarnation who'd be at like 10F worth of power, to say that they all of a sudden can't do much more even after he went down to a tenth of that is a reach and then some)

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Didnt Gojo say that jogo was stronger than 3f sukuna? Like bruh

 

[Shey]

good sir, we have miguel who Gojo compared to himself when it comes to CE reinforcement and gojo while not even trying was able to smash 1F sukuna into the pavement before he could even react and yet we see this current sukuna being able to actually react to and swap hands with miguel.

Current sukuna is in no way below 2 finger worths of power, he is currently at like 4-5 fingers, or less than half of his current 10F worth of CE that he has left after the Gojo fight (plus I mean common yuji and the gang where able to somewhat swap hands with sukuna fresh of his reincarnation who'd be at like 10F worth of power, to say that they all of a sudden can't do much more even after he went down to a tenth of that is a reach and then some)

1F Sukuna wasn't able to touch Gojo as he wasn't aware of his technique at the time, Gojo blitzing 1F doesn't make him inferior to anyone Gojo with Blue can blitz even 20F Sukuna if he isn't fully on guard for it, he did this to Full Power Meguna in his Domain when blasting Red in his face.
There's no concrete scaling for him so it doesn't discredit it at all

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Didnt Gojo say that jogo was stronger than 3f sukuna? Like bruh

1F*

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Kenjaku never tried to tame Mahoraga because hes not interrested in the 10s. He never cared about Megumi. He never even mentioned his name

Not interested

Nothing proves that though? And not caring about megumi is irrelevant. We talking about hundreds or more years back. He would definitely know about the big three clans, especially Gojo clan's opp, mahoraga. and the 10S existed back then. There's literally 0 reason to not be interested in acquiring something as special as Mahoraga, who's kinda like "Yamata no Orochi" who Kenjaku is aware of given the fact that he was in Heian Era too..
Nonetheless, not wanting to acquire a shikigami, who can adapt to any phenomena, and is a really great counter to the gojo clan, is and would be the dumbest thing Kenjaku could EVER do, like be serious. The fact that he hasn't acquired it is quite telling that he simply isn't powerful enough to do it.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

1F*

Gojo fought jogo after yujis death, so nah 3

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Gojo fought jogo after yujis death, so nah 3

I mean he never seen 3F sukuna but looking at the fact that he can in fact see souls he might be able to see just how strong that sukuna is so maybe (although I'd still say 3F sukuna>Jogo, but not by much)

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

CE reserves dont correlate to CE output. Yuta, for example, has some of the largest cursed energy reserves within the entire series but even he can't output the same level of cursed energy as Ryu by himself.

? So you think 1F Sukuna = 20F Sukuna?
how do you think JP Hakari got a better output when he got increased ce reserves

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Nothing proves that though? And not caring about megumi is irrelevant. We talking about hundreds or more years back. He would definitely know about the big three clans, especially Gojo clan's opp, mahoraga. and the 10S existed back then. There's literally 0 reason to not be interested in acquiring something as special as Mahoraga, who's kinda like "Yamata no Orochi" who Kenjaku is aware of given the fact that he was in Heian Era too..
Nonetheless, not wanting to acquire a shikigami, who can adapt to any phenomena, and is a really great counter to the gojo clan, is and would be the dumbest thing Kenjaku could EVER do, like be serious. The fact that he hasn't acquired it is quite telling that he simply isn't powerful enough to do it.

I mean the 10S are kinda pointless for kenny since they don't do nothing for his plans, like cool its strong but what is that gonna do to help him merge tengen with the world? nothing, he needed that Curse manip for the tangen plan, 10S are kinda worthless to him.