Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Slacjow]

So we should label it as like mhs with perception regularly high hyper in combat or something

Well, there must be a CRT, I don't know if it falls under perception, but it might end up like High Hypersonic Reaction, likely MHS+ Perception.
High Hypersonic feat is a Reaction feat so it won't scale to overall speed of anyone in the verse.

 

[Arkenis]

it would though. For characters who can be argued to blitz maki would get that rating and so on. Example someone like dagon who was explicitly going to kill her would get it or someone like Naobito who's literally faster than her in perception and combat would get it. Also her feat is somewhat of a reaction feat but also still her moving her arm fast enough to catch the bullet, an action like that is akin to punching or blocking.

 

[Duedate8898]

Thats not an attack speed, applying cursed energy within a certain timeframe during a physical hit doesn't translate to attack speed, it's the speed of applying the cursed energy into your hit, just that.

Even Nanami's profile states it's a perception feat but he has Reaction for some reason.

Applying cursed energy is an attack though? Black Flash is exclusively an attack. So using black flash gives you whatever attack speed comes from applying the energy within that given time frame. As simple as that.

 

[Slacjow]

Applying cursed energy is an attack though? Black Flash is exclusively an attack. So using black flash gives you whatever attack speed comes from applying the energy within that given time frame. As simple as that.

Thats not how it works, applying Cursed Energy to a punch is different from performing an actual punch, you don't make any movements, you just literally activate cursed energy right at the moment of contact of a physical hit. The key word is "movement", applying Cursed Energy at that moment doesn't require any movement since you apply it at the moment of a physical hit.
Read Chapter 48, there it explains how BF works. This is the last from me on BF, it's at max a perception feat.

 

[Duedate8898]

That is exactly how it works, just because you're not physically moving doesn't mean the energy isn't. Hence why I'm saying it's attack speed. We're even given a timeframe for just how fast the energy has to move.

 

[Arkenis]

So basically are you saying that the movement of the curse energy to perform bf is what they scale to?

That is exactly how it works, just because you're not physically moving doesn't mean the energy isn't. Hence why I'm saying it's attack speed. We're even given a timeframe for just how fast the energy has to move.

 

[Duedate8898]

Not even that, I was just saying that whatever speed is attributed to black flash it should be considered attack speed due to how the black flash is an attack.

 

[Arkenis]

Yea but the problem is that they don't consciously perform bf right? It just happens randomly I thought.

 

[Duedate8898]

Whether conscious or not doesn't matter, it's just whenever the attack is performed it has a certain speed.

 

[Arkenis]

But if they can't perform it willingly why grant them that speed?

 

[Duedate8898]

Because they can still perform it? Whether or not its at will doesn't matter, if they can perform an attack which has a different speed than their standard rating then it should be noted on their profiles that when using this attack they have whatever speed the attack has.

Like how Doomguy has different attack speeds due to his weapons

 

[Arkenis]

Yea cuz he can use those weapons. Giving a character a higher rating based off of something they can't control doesn't makes sense at all.

 

[Duedate8898]

People use Black Flash, therefore when using it their attacks have a certain speed.
Just because they can't call upon it willingly that doesn't mean they don't deserve the rating that comes with blackflash.
What you're essentially arguing is just because they can't control the power, we should just say they don't get any of the effects that come from it which doesn't make sense. Like how Eren from Attack on Titan had times where he couldn't call out his titan powers. Or how rage power users normally get a stat boost they can't control or really actively call upon since it requires them to be enraged.
If they have the ability, and have shown to use it, why should we ignore it?
All we would have to do is mention that the power isn't something they can consciously call upon.

 

[Elizhaa]

"Jujutsu Kaisen Dicussion Page" to "Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page"

Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Thread also works

I had some time so I made the changes.

 

[Slacjow]

That is exactly how it works, just because you're not physically moving doesn't mean the energy isn't. Hence why I'm saying it's attack speed. We're even given a timeframe for just how fast the energy has to move.

Except the energy doesn't move in this case, it's just being activated, you don't throw cursed energy at your opponent, you throw a punch and activate cursed energy during a physical hit impact.
I'll make a CRT to downgrade it, as it should be.

 

[Duedate8898]

Go ahead, but I'm sure it will be agreed upon that this is defintely attack speed.

 

[Arkenis]

I just don't see the point in putting it when characters can't access it in battle. Like how would you argue bf in a vsb setting?

 

[Slacjow]

You can't, because it's not a combat speed feat, it's hardly a perception feat.

 

[Arkenis]

Until someone can willingly do it then it shouldn't be given. I agree though that we can scale people who tank hits from it.

 

[Duedate8898]

I just don't see the point in putting it when characters can't access it in battle. Like how would you argue bf in a vsb setting?

They literally access it in battle. The last arc had Yuji repeat this very technique three times in a single fight. While him getting it with every hit is very unlikely, it's not something that is so rare that we're unlikely to see it in any fight.

 

[Arkenis]

They access it through luck not willingly is my point. That would be weird to debate.

 

[Duedate8898]

The fact is they can still access it though, some more easily than others is clearly shown to us. And once again, just because you can't control a power that doesn't mean we just ignore it, all we do is make sure to note within the listing of the ability itself and clarify in match ups how it works.

 

[Mand21]

Um, guys, don't forget Black Flash is all about TIMING, not about speed. When using Black Flash, the speed of the attack isn't altered.

Also, didn't the dude who focused all his cursed energy in the stomach to tank a BF see Mahito using Black Flash beforehand? And isn't it the case that every time Black Flash is used, the user is in a flow-like state? It could be the case that his instincts merely realized that such state had been achieved and therefore there was a decent chance of a Black Flash coming, and he kinda "read" a Black Flash coming.

Both Yuuji and Mahito are very proficient at landing black flashes with decent frequency, albeit Yuuji more so, so this wouldn't be unimaginable by any means.

Anyways, given that not a single feat even from Top Tiers is close to the level of millionth-of-a-second reaction speed, I'm highly skeptical of the idea that a mere High Tier like a first grade sorcerer would have millionth-of-a-second reaction speed. We would literally be scaling Gojou Satoru's speed directly from "being faster than Yuuji", goddamnit!

Also, I do think we should take Black Flashes into consideration in VS threads, but in the same way in which we often do...
You know how a character having a 99% probability of defeating another makes it not a stomp? If a Jujutsu Kaisen character cannot damage their opponent unless via BF, but said character is indeed capable of using BF, then the fight shouldn't be a stomp.
Also, if a character cannot one-shot their opponent unless with Black Flash and should not a single BF happen the fight is perfectly balanced to the point of being almost inconclusive, BF can be used as an argument. I'm in favor of using BF as a stomp-prevention and tie-breaking argument.
Black Flash should never be used as a justification for a stomp such as in "stomps via Black Flash" because no character can Black Flash consistently. However, if such a character does appear, then we can use Black Flash as a justification for AP stomping.

 

[Valorrr]

so is there any contention about Dagon being island level?

 

[Arkenis]

I'm gonna start a geto page if anyone cares.
or sandbox mind me.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Can't wait to see it.

 

[Mand21]

So, given the latest chapter (133), is Suguru Geto someone inbetween the power levels of Sukuna and Mahito?

I would be willing to bet that Mahito is a Special Grade curse worth multiple Sukuna Fingers, would you guys agree? If each Sukuna Finger is a decently powered Special Grade artifact somewhat above the grade's baseline, then Mahito and the other special grades capable of holding conversations and thinking like humans would be something almost above special grade.

Let's say... we turned the current "Normal Special Grades" such as Finger Bearers into "Quasi-Special Grades" just like we have quasi grade 1s and quasi grade 2s. Seems fair enough to me, y'know?
Then, we have Mahito and Jogo be called True Special Grades
It's as if Geto was a character Beyond Special Grade and Sukuna and Satoru were beyond even that, lmao.

Unless Geto is actually comparable to Sukuna, in which case we just have a third Sukuna Grade character and we can call Mahito&Jogo tier curses the "Beyond Special Grades".

 

[Arkenis]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Nelliels/sandbox4geto#With_Mahito done

 

[Makstar05]

Can someone remove Gojo's ressistance to Power Null since he has it for no reason??

 

[Arkenis]

they gave a reason lol

 

[Arkenis]

So, given the latest chapter (133), is Suguru Geto someone inbetween the power levels of Sukuna and Mahito?

I would be willing to bet that Mahito is a Special Grade curse worth multiple Sukuna Fingers, would you guys agree? If each Sukuna Finger is a decently powered Special Grade artifact somewhat above the grade's baseline, then Mahito and the other special grades capable of holding conversations and thinking like humans would be something almost above special grade.

Let's say... we turned the current "Normal Special Grades" such as Finger Bearers into "Quasi-Special Grades" just like we have quasi grade 1s and quasi grade 2s. Seems fair enough to me, y'know?
Then, we have Mahito and Jogo be called True Special Grades
It's as if Geto was a character Beyond Special Grade and Sukuna and Satoru were beyond even that, lmao.

Unless Geto is actually comparable to Sukuna, in which case we just have a third Sukuna Grade character and we can call Mahito&Jogo tier curses the "Beyond Special Grades".

Seems fine

 

[Гиперион1]

Pseudo-Getou create invented shaman skills when he was Kamo's ancestor?

 

[Arkenis]

I think so, I know he had involvement in the death paintings

 

[Arkenis]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Suguru_Getou added geto if anyone's interested on checking

 

[Ped2018]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Suguru_Getou added geto if anyone's interested on checking

but why Mahito? he hasn't absorved him yet

 

[Arkenis]

he did...

 

[Arkenis]

we saw him make him into a ball already

 

[Ped2018]

we saw him make him into a ball already

he has to eat it

 

[Arkenis]

No... he merely has to conquer them, which is what he did.

 

[Ped2018]

No... he merely has to conquer them, which is what he did.

dude, the problem is that we don't know what he's gonna do with Mahito, he could very well just realese him for what we know of, and no, he has to eat him first to control him