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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Sir_sun_man said:
hey can I talk about one of my gripes about the critics of JJK real quick?

The constant bollocks about how GeGe can't write female characters and the most I ever get as to why that is, is cuse he kills them and like

he kinda does that to everyone so whats the issue and why is it specific to female character aspecially when one of the best written characters is maki.

Like what the ****? I don't get the critic here.
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I think its mix of a few different factors. Its not like men dont also die in the series but proportionally women get done dirty much more often than men in the show. Its not just the fact that they die either, because we know Gege can write good character deaths (Nanami). But a lot of them died without significantly impacting the plot at all.

Nobara, Yuki and Megumi's sister were all very important people for one reason of another but the forst two died without accomplishing anything and the third got talen over by dumbass Yorozu, who then died with impacting the plot either.
 
Giannysmag said:
I think its mix of a few different factors. Its not like men dont also die in the series but proportionally women get done dirty much more often than men in the show. Its not just the fact that they die either, because we know Gege can write good character deaths (Nanami). But a lot of them died without significantly impacting the plot at all.

Nobara, Yuki and Megumi's sister were all very important people for one reason of another but the forst two died without accomplishing anything and the third got talen over by dumbass Yorozu, who then died with impacting the plot either.
Click to expand...
I think Nanami death had enough impact on Yujis growth. It's not just wasted.
 
Giannysmag said:
I think its mix of a few different factors. Its not like men dont also die in the series but proportionally women get done dirty much more often than men in the show. Its not just the fact that they die either, because we know Gege can write good character deaths (Nanami). But a lot of them died without significantly impacting the plot at all.

Nobara
Click to expand...
I know its a meme by this point but might not be dead.
Giannysmag said:
Yuki
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I mean her importance to the plot was questionable from the get go, I mean the only real thing is her whole shtick with geto and kenjaku about the whole which is better no CE or all CE or Optimized CE and her being special grade (but being special grade matter little since ya know 3 out of 4 are dead and gotta say plot wise their deaths where all pretty similar)
Giannysmag said:
and Megumi's sister
Click to expand...
she served her purpose in one of the most pivital points in the story where it allowed the Strongest Big bad in the universe to take over one of the main characters so that is quite the big impact if you ask me plot wise
 
Giannysmag said:
Yuki
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Also another thing about Yuki's death, it is down right identical nanami's death in plot beats, I mean both die to the current big bad without really achiving all that much in trying to stop them while leaving one of the main cast memebers with some final words to motivate them, Nanami: you got this from here Yuji, Yuki: Choso. Right here, right now, you have died as a curse. So live on. This time as a Human.

I mean like come on how can you call one death good while saying the other one is bad, aspecially after the whole bar interaction flash back that Yuki and Choso had? I mean the death was amazing and hell she even got to go out with one hell of a bang with the black hole move.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Someone who has no qualms on killing and understands comedy with the CT Comedian

Terrifying
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Look kenny with that CT is likely the absolutely worst case senario for the entirty of JJK high, I mean this ****** is ready to basically genocide a whole ass nation on the prospect that they are bored and that it might be fun, oh and they also outright said that if the Curse god they are making has a funny face they'd laught


I mean this grey-matter **** is ready to commit whole scale genocide cuse it might be funny.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I think Nanami death had enough impact on Yujis growth. It's not just wasted.
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I know, thats why i called it an exmple of a good death
Sir_sun_man said:
Also another thing about Yuki's death, it is down right identical nanami's death in plot beats, I mean both die to the current big bad without really achiving all that much in trying to stop them while leaving one of the main cast memebers with some final words to motivate them, Nanami: you got this from here Yuji, Yuki: Choso. Right here, right now, you have died as a curse. So live on. This time as a Human.

I mean like come on how can you call one death good while saying the other one is bad, aspecially after the whole bar interaction flash back that Yuki and Choso had? I mean the death was amazing and hell she even got to go out with one hell of a bang with the black hole move.
Click to expand...
I have two reasons. One is expectation, Nanami is a classic shonen mentor, far more than Gojo ever was at least, so we naturally expected him to go out like one and for what it's worth it was done perfectly (i'll explain why in a bit). Yuki on the other hand, she is one of the 4 special grade sorcerers, one of the strongest characters in the entire series (hell the whole "special grades can destroy countries" speech from Kenjaku was clearly meant to hype up Yuki), so we as an audience expected her to be a very important and have a major impact to the story. But nope, she lands like two solid hits on Kenjaku, gets beaten up for most of the fight and when she summons a ******* black hole, the next scene is just Kenjaku laughing it off, calling the fight a warm-up and then capturing Tengen.

The second reason is set up. Nanami spends the Vs Mahito arc coming to understand and empathizing with Yuji. He goes from complete cold indifference, to genuienly caring for the kid, he even fails to kill Mahito near the end of the arc because he tried to help Yuji. So when his death finally comes around it hurts for two different reasons. One because he spends his last moments trying to incourage Itadori and two because this comes at the lowest possible point for Yuji. Gojo has been sealed, he nearly died to Choso and he watched Sukuna rampage throught Shibuya killing thousends of people. He is broken mentally, so seeing his only remaining mentor figuere get blown up is the final punch to the gut for both Yuji and us as viewers. Yuki's final words to Choso don't work nearly as well because their relationship only started to develop in that fight (well technically in flashbacks but you get what i mean). Now i really like their interactions but by comparasion we had much less time to invest ourselves in their relationship or even Yuki as a character, so that final line along with her death don't hit nearly as hard.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
hey can I talk about one of my gripes about the critics of JJK real quick?

The constant bollocks about how GeGe can't write female characters and the most I ever get as to why that is, is cuse he kills them and like

he kinda does that to everyone so whats the issue and why is it specific to female character aspecially when one of the best written characters is maki.

Like what the ****? I don't get the critic here.
Click to expand...
I genuinely find Gege's introductions and execution of his characters great overall, but when it comes to writing them out/killing them, it's 50/50-ish when it comes to the women.

For instance, Mai and Yuki's deaths definitely have large impacts on the story and have gotten a tear or two out of me (Jury's out whether Nobara's coming back or not but that line "It wasn't all bad" :cry:) Tsumiki was fridged. Granted, it was done well, and the purpose was fulfilled so it might just be my opinion/preference. I still find it disappointing how she got so little development and her character existed as Megumi's motivation factor.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
@Giannysmag @SunDaGamer
Can we nuke Sukuna 2F & 3F keys? I mean do we have any time period for Sukuna keeping the control on Yuji? Seems like those keys are useless so far.
Click to expand...
I think it's fine to remove them. They don't effect the scaling for any character, Sukuna's abilties remain the same inside Yuji's body independent of the fingers and his stats are massive lowballs, since all we have for him is to upscale him from characters he absolutely stomps, which is how we end up with things like 2F Sukuna technically having lower stats than Ino
 
Giannysmag said:
I think it's fine to remove them. They don't effect the scaling for any character, Sukuna's abilties remain the same inside Yuji's body independent of the fingers and his stats are massive lowballs, since all we have for him is to upscale him from characters he absolutely stomps, which is how we end up with things like 2F Sukuna technically having lower stats than Ino
Click to expand...
Logically speaking 3F Sukuna should be on par with Mahogara. Idk 15F Sukuna states maybe he would have lost. The statement implied. Sukuna had 50/50 chances of winning. Which makes me wonder does Jogo was even Weaker than 3F Sukuna.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Logically speaking 3F Sukuna should be on par with Mahogara. Idk 15F Sukuna states maybe he would have lost. The statement implied. Sukuna had 50/50 chances of winning. Which makes me wonder does Jogo was even Weaker than 3F Sukuna.
Click to expand...
I think Jogo = Maho >= 3F Sukuna in terms of stats. Maho's adaptation just makes him a pain in the ass if you don't have the firepower to oneshot him
 
Giannysmag said:
I have two reasons. One is expectation, Nanami is a classic shonen mentor, far more than Gojo ever was at least, so we naturally expected him to go out like one and for what it's worth it was done perfectly (i'll explain why in a bit). Yuki on the other hand, she is one of the 4 special grade sorcerers, one of the strongest characters in the entire series (hell the whole "special grades can destroy countries" speech from Kenjaku was clearly meant to hype up Yuki), so we as an audience expected her to be a very important and have a major impact to the story. But nope, she lands like two solid hits on Kenjaku, gets beaten up for most of the fight and when she summons a ******* black hole, the next scene is just Kenjaku laughing it off, calling the fight a warm-up and then capturing Tengen.
Click to expand...
The classics or character types don't matter because hell JJK doesn't fit half of those at all and the other half it fits loosely at best so architypes is really not the best argument in story telling if you ask me, especially so when talking JJK with how its story is told but we'll address that in the other point. The whole Special grade is a double edged sword because while Kenny was talking about, how powerful special grades actually where he was also talking about the body that he took and we have it outright stated to us that he has at least 2 other CT's on top of the one that just by itself makes him special grade that he uses to a level of mastery that the original special grade who had it couldn't use on top of another high level CT that is a counter to Yuki and a potential other one that has god knows what effects and on top of this already stacked he also had 1000 years of Jujutsu experience which allowed him to create a domain on the same level of refinement as Sukuna this wasn't a situation that was hyping Yuki it was one that was hyping up kenjaku, its basically the whole Aizen vs captains from bleach situation; we have multiple high level characters that where hyped up previously coming up against the big bad who has been pulling the strings behind everyone’s back using the natural enemies of their order hollow(bleach) and curses (JJK) to weaken, seal away powers and take out members so that they could achieve their goals and the strongest that are still around to face the big bad get their asses handed to them. The whole Kenny v Tangen, Yuki and Choso wasn't there to demonstrate how strong the side character Yuki is but to show just how ungodly strong the main big bad is.

Giannysmag said:
The second reason is set up. Nanami spends the Vs Mahito arc coming to understand and empathizing with Yuji. He goes from complete cold indifference, to genuienly caring for the kid, he even fails to kill Mahito near the end of the arc because he tried to help Yuji. So when his death finally comes around it hurts for two different reasons. One because he spends his last moments trying to incourage Itadori and two because this comes at the lowest possible point for Yuji. Gojo has been sealed, he nearly died to Choso and he watched Sukuna rampage throught Shibuya killing thousends of people. He is broken mentally, so seeing his only remaining mentor figuere get blown up is the final punch to the gut for both Yuji and us as viewers. Yuki's final words to Choso don't work nearly as well because their relationship only started to develop in that fight (well technically in flashbacks but you get what i mean). Now i really like their interactions but by comparasion we had much less time to invest ourselves in their relationship or even Yuki as a character, so that final line along with her death don't hit nearly as hard.
Click to expand...
The reason as to why her setup against Nanami’s isn't anywhere near as massive is simple she isn't a part of the main cast; she is a side character used to develop a part of the main cast in Choso. Nanami was a side character used to develop the main character throughout the early stages of the story so his death would always have a far greater impact then Yuki's no matter how you look at it as you can't spend over 30 chapters developing a side character only to kill them later that is not a luxury mangakas not named Oda can give themselves (cuse I mean unless we wanna sit here for the next 15 years we ain't getting that level of side cast development) and much like Nanami she died in a single chapter with flash backs to related to their character and the main cast member they are tied to. No, I mean it go re-read chapter 120 and 209 and just look at how similar their deaths truly are, they are downright parallels to one another with Nanami not wanting to lay a curse on Yuji with his final words and Yuki trying to liberate Choso from his curse with hers and considering where both stood at each point its quite poetic.


Honestly the only reason I could see someone seeing Yuki's death as disappointing is due to overblow expectations because she achieves her purpose and then some.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
@Giannysmag @SunDaGamer
Can we nuke Sukuna 2F & 3F keys? I mean do we have any time period for Sukuna keeping the control on Yuji? Seems like those keys are useless so far.
Click to expand...
I mean their scale is all over the place, I mean sukuna at 1 finger should be at least on grade 1 level, I mean he has more CE than yuji and FAAAAAAR better control than him and yet we treat him as weaker than yuji who just learned how to use CE with his pitiful amount of it.
 
Giannysmag said:
Nah Jogo is outright stated by Gojo to be stronger than 3F Sukuna
Click to expand...
No Gojo was talking about his knowledge on Sukuna So either it's 1F or 2F because Gojo has zero information on 3F Sukuna. Also Mahogara shows better durability than Jogo. So I believe Sukuna was more stronger
 
Giannysmag said:
Nah Jogo is outright stated by Gojo to be stronger than 3F Sukuna
Click to expand...
nope, he said that Jogo has more CE than 3F sukuna not that he is stronger I mean sukuna should still have far superior CE control to Jogo and considering that jogo has about 8 to 9 fingers worth of CE if we are giving him a really BIG benefit of the doubt 3F sukuna should be able to fight and honestly outright **** up jogo pretty bad although it would actually be a fight this time around
 
BadSystems said:
Idk, 3F Sukuna = Jogo? Kenjaku did say that 8F level was a generous estimate but it can't be that generous.
Click to expand...
This 👇
EldemadeDityjon said:
No Gojo was talking about his knowledge on Sukuna So either it's 1F or 2F because Gojo has zero information on 3F Sukuna. Also Mahogara shows better durability than Jogo. So I believe Sukuna was more stronger
Click to expand...
Sir_sun_man said:
I mean their scale is all over the place, I mean sukuna at 1 finger should be at least on grade 1 level, I mean he has more CE than yuji and FAAAAAAR better control than him and yet we treat him as weaker than yuji who just learned how to use CE with his pitiful amount of it.
Click to expand...
Honestly we should just keep 15F Yuji Sukuna
15F Meguna , 20F Meguna and Heian Era Sukuna keys. Other keys should be nuked
 
JnSteHar002 said:
I genuinely find Gege's introductions and execution of his characters great overall, but when it comes to writing them out/killing them, it's 50/50-ish when it comes to the women.

For instance, Mai and Yuki's deaths definitely have large impacts on the story and have gotten a tear or two out of me (Jury's out whether Nobara's coming back or not but that line "It wasn't all bad" :cry:) Tsumiki was fridged. Granted, it was done well, and the purpose was fulfilled so it might just be my opinion/preference. I still find it disappointing how she got so little development and her character existed as Megumi's motivation factor.
Click to expand...
Mai and Yuki's death where executed well, Tsumiki served her purpose but the one thing I will agree with about her is that we didn't get enough development to care about her
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Heian Era Sukuna = True form Sukuna
Chapter 238 Clearly mentioned that.
Click to expand...
I mean Current true from sukuna has a lot more in his hax with the space cuts and he lacks the hiten cursed tool

Hiten is an unknown and we don't know if current sukuna scale 1 to 1 with his Heian era form due to the whole fuckery with the last finger and the shinbutsu mummy
 
yeah the 1F to 3F keys are strange cuse we don't really know where they scale, I mean each should be at least 8-A since the fingers by themselves without any of sukunas actual abilities and CE control can push a grade 2 curse to special grade levels aka where only a grade 1 sorcerer like nanami could take them on and its not 100% that he would even win that fight so yeah
 
Sir_sun_man said:
I mean Current true from sukuna has a lot more in his hax with the space cuts and he lacks the hiten cursed tool

Hiten is an unknown and we don't know if current sukuna scale 1 to 1 with his Heian era form due to the whole fuckery with the last finger and the shinbutsu mummy
Click to expand...
I'm not counting Ten Shadows to Heian Era Sukuna but he has enough haxes already.
  • Cleave and dismantle
  • Spider web
  • DE
  • Fire arrow
  • Power mimicry etc.
Giannysmag said:
Does current Sukuna have access to 10s or did he lose it when he transformed?
Click to expand...
My headcanon Sukuna sacrificed TS for his true form so he lost it.
Simple Assumption he still has them unless either it's stated he doesn't we would grant him that.
 
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